Qu'ran teaches that Jews must return to Israel in latter days.

[DennisTate]

Sufism is a minor trend within Islam, without political sway, so it makes no difference. Alewis probably have more influence even. And it doesn't really matter what the Quran says, what matters is what the 'Muslim nations' actually do, which may well contradict the Quran just as Christians contradict the Bible.

In fact the political position of 'Arab nations' relative to Jews hasn't change for millennia; their animosity goes far back to pre-Islamic times.

Yes...… and one of the best theories that I have ever read on how to change the spiritual atmosphere in the Middle East is put forward by a writer from Uganda.

His ideas are based on Isaiah chapter 42 - 46 and it does make a great deal of sense to me that supporting the ultimate expression of freedom of religion for the Jewish people should well result in a significant outpouring of the Ruach ha Kodesh/Holy Spirit!

http://www.christianforums.com/t7681942/

Do you believe a massive Holy Spirit tsunami is coming?
Personally I love the idea put forward by a pastor in Uganda that when we Christians support and respect the Jewish people more as they play their role in bringing back Messiah, the Holy Spirit will be poured out unlike ever before in history!

That makes a lot of sense to me!

Eporu Ronald Alfred

Kakira Deliverance Church,
P.O. Box 3191, Kakira, Jinja, Uganda

......

Dear brethren,
I salute you in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ!

RE: SHARING NEW DISCOVERIES OF THE TRUTH IN BIBLE PROPHECY CONCERNING THE IMMINENT HEALING AND UNITY OF THE CHURCH

I am mesmerized by the truth in bible prophecy that the Spirit of God has been revealing over the recent years. Secret things belong to God and those that are revealed belong to us and our children... (Deut 29: 29).

1. King Cyrus the great ruled his country 555 years Before Christ i.e. from 576 BC to 530 BC and authorised the rebuilding of the second temple in Jerusalem. Cyrus of the Old Testament is hence associated with the number 555 and is the shadow figure of incoming Cyrus II of the New Testament. You may learn more about his history from the internet and scriptures. This new truth enables us to identify the leadership of the world that will rebuild the temple in Jerusalem as prophesied in book of Isaiah before the rise of antichrist. Cyrus II is coming to revive the evangelical/Pentecostal church in Jerusalem and restore the headquarters of the church in same city where the church was born. He is set to strip Babylon of the vessels of the temple and the name of the Lord God and transfer that crown back to Jerusalem thus leaving Babylon naked. Cyrus will rebuild the temple in Jerusalem in fulfilment of the prophecy of Jesus as written in the book of John 2:18-23 and the prophecy of Isaiah as written in chapters 40, 41, 45 and 47 of the book of Isaiah. Jesus regarded the temple as the symbol of his own body while saying that he had the power to lay it down on the first day (1st millennium) and rebuild or raise it up on the 3rd day (3rd millennium). Remember that one day in the eyes of God is the same as one thousand years (millennium) as stated in book of 2 Peter 3:8. Rebuilding of the temple is thus associated with unification of the church.

Cyrus II will rebuild the temple in honour of our lord Jesus Christ. The temple will be the unifying (rallying) point of the world wide evangelical church as the original headquarters of the church. Psalms133 denotes that there is such a powerful anointing that comes along with unity among brethren. Unification of the whole body of Jesus Christ will make the church so powerful that she will overrun the world within a short time before the return of our lord Jesus Christ. A divided church is a powerless church whereas a united church is a powerful church. The church can only be able to fulfil her ultimate mission of revealing Jesus to the world once we get united as one body of Jesus Christ following his last prayer for his disciples as written in John 17:20-23.

Cyrus II will erase that false image of Jesus that the counterfeit and Idolatrous state church of Babylon has been projecting around the world and revive the original church that projects the true brilliant image of Jesus Christ. Haggai 2:9 says that the glory of the latter church (temple) will be greater than the glory of the former church (temple).The rise of Cyrus will also usher in the ultimate fulfilment of the prophecy of Joel 2:28 where God intends to pour out His Spirit on all flesh in these last days. The era of Cyrus brings the gentile period of grace to its close and leads to the restoration of the Jewish period of grace and salvation.


​

 

[Hoshiyya]

Well, we'll see.

On the point of Muslims being convinced by Sufism to befriend the Jews or whatever, I' throw that theory out the window.

Things will probably get worse before they get better, judging from Revelation of John.

"Unification of the whole body of Jesus Christ will make the church so powerful that she will overrun the world within a short time before the return of our lord Jesus Christ. "

Don't see that happening, but who knows . . .

 

[DennisTate]

Well, we'll see.

On the point of Muslims being convinced by Sufism to befriend the Jews or whatever, I' throw that theory out the window.

Things will probably get worse before they get better, judging from Revelation of John.

"Unification of the whole body of Jesus Christ will make the church so powerful that she will overrun the world within a short time before the return of our lord Jesus Christ. "

Don't see that happening, but who knows . . .

As little as two years ago...... I felt the same way..... I truly felt that things would almost certainly get worse before they got better..... Probably much much much much worse...... but now I am seeing a glimmer of light..... that even the scariest of modern prophecies..... can be turned around.

The Pastor Shane Warren visions for America as explained on an episode of Sid Roth spring immediately to mind!!!!!!!?????

 

[visionary]

It will be the climax of evil in which the climax of good will outshine it all and Yeshua comes to receive the glory.

 

[DennisTate]

It will be the climax of evil in which the climax of good will outshine it all and Yeshua comes to receive the glory.

Or...... will Messiah Yeshua/ Jesus arrange everything to make it look like the latter day King David type..... and the latter day Elijah type........ are some sort of brilliant Solomon/Moses king/prophet type of leaders??????!!!!!!!

Both the Elijah type and the David type will try their best to convince people that they are not the ones doing the miracles that surround them....... but........ just as people tend to worship actors and actresses and famous singers and the rich and famous so also..........

 

[Hoshiyya]

your excess of exclamation and question marks....... make it sound like you're sarcastic ????!?!?!?!?!!!

 

[DennisTate]

your excess of exclamation and question marks....... make it sound like you're sarcastic ????!?!?!?!?!!!

What I usually mean by these is that I have far more than one question related to the statement that I just made!

I am trying to write in a manner that is far far far less dogmatic and simplistic than what I read when I was young. I would not trade my experience in the Worldwide Church of God.....but..... I want to learn from the major mistakes that I saw there.

 

[Hoshiyya]

What I usually mean by these is that I have far more than one question related to the statement that I just made!

I am trying to write in a manner that is far far far less dogmatic and simplistic than what I read when I was young. I would not trade my experience in the Worldwide Church of God.....but..... I want to learn from the major mistakes that I saw there.

I know a man who used to be an elder there, and got tired of that group and formed a non-dogmatic study fellowship of his own.

 

[HannibalFlavius]

Or...... will Messiah Yeshua/ Jesus arrange everything to make it look like the latter day King David type..... and the latter day Elijah type........ are some sort of brilliant Solomon/Moses king/prophet type of leaders??????!!!!!!!

Both the Elijah type and the David type will try their best to convince people that they are not the ones doing the miracles that surround them....... but........ just as people tend to worship actors and actresses and famous singers and the rich and famous so also..........

What is~Elijah type, David type?

 

[visionary]

Most of us see the two witnesses as Elijah, Moses, David, Enoch, etc type of last day, last warning, types.... It will be a head on collision course for the Imitator of the Son of God vs Two witnesses... And it takes two witnesses to start the Fall feasts. ... Should be interesting... as they both have the power to have fire come down from heaven in the sight of men...

 

[Lulav]

I don't give much credence to anything Sid Roth says or anyone he has on his program.

 

[DennisTate]

I don't give much credence to anything Sid Roth says or anyone he has on his program.

One of his guests.....Pastor Shane Warren...… was given some sort of vision of a hurricane of money beginning in the USA...… this sure fits with the calls being made for a one world currency by 2018......… Pastor Shane Warren gave a truly scary interpretation for the vision.... but...… I personally believe that with lots and lots and lots of prayer.... the vision of what Pastor Warren understood in such a scary manner can be turned around to become something astonishingly positive....... So in a sense.... your skepticism could be the Holy Spirit telling you to not take the fear of men........ overly seriously!!!!!!!

 

[DennisTate]

Pastor Shane Warren was shown a meeting with .... it seemed to him.... leaders from China... Russia … and the Islamic world....... They conspire to devalue the USA dollar.... so that they can introduce their one world currency.......... but......… G-d has the power to turn the scary vision..... into something extremely positive....if the people of G-d will pray....... return to G-d with our whole heart....... and ask for wisdom to turn every negative prophecy....... upside down or actually.... right side up.....

http://www.christianforums.com/t7701455/

North American churches should each have their own currency!
I am of the belief that each large church in North America should discuss the printing up of their own church currency unit such as has been done by a group of socially active citizens in Calgary, Canada with their CalgaryDollars.ca

Here is a good article on how important local currencies were during the Great Depression:


Whatcom Watch Online - Story Display

City in Austria Printed Local Currency

Worgl, like many other European towns and cities, was hit hard by the Great Depression. There was mass unemployment; four of the five local factories had closed, and the people were starving in the streets. Nobody had any money to buy anything. One of the features of an economic depression is that there is not enough money in circulation to ensure that people can meet their basic needs, and in the 1930s, the shortage of currency in many countries of the world became catastrophic.

The mayor of Worgl, together with local businessmen, decided to try to break this economic impasse by creating their own local currency. They printed and issued 60,000 Austrian shillings worth of local currency. These shillings could only be spent in Worgl, so they remained in the local community and were exchanged over and over again.

The positive impact was immediate and surprising to everyone. In only six weeks, unemployment disappeared, all the factories had reopened and everyone had food. For the inhabitants of Worgl, the economic depression was gone. This dramatic transformation became known as the “miracle of Worgl.” Surrounding towns, inspired by the success of Worgl, immediately started printing their own local currencies.

Sadly, the miracle did not last long. When the Austrian Central Bank heard about Worgl’s local currency, they initiated legal proceedings against the mayor and local businessmen. According to Austrian banking law, it was illegal for anyone except the Austrian Central Bank to issue money. The bank won the court case, and the mayor was ordered to shut down the local currency, which he did, under threat of imprisonment. The town then returned to the devastating economic depression of the 1930s, with all the human pain and suffering associated with this catastrophe. Factories closed, and once again, the people starved.

Alternative Currency in the U.S.

Irving Fisher, an American professor of economics at Yale University, visited Worgl before the local currency was suppressed and witnessed the ‘miracle’ firsthand. When he returned to the United States, Fisher spread the word by traveling and lecturing across the country, advocating the use of the Worgl ‘scrip’ everywhere. Inspired by his vision, hundreds of communities began issuing their own currency, and by 1934 there were over 1,000 local communities using ‘scrip’ throughout the U.S.

Every one of these communities experienced a tremendous rejuvenation of their local economies. They thrived while others suffered. Fisher then met with President Franklin D. Roosevelt, proposing the implementation of government-sanctioned local ‘scrip’ in every community in America. When FDR consulted with his top financial advisors and bankers, however, he was advised to shut all the ‘scrip’ systems down, which he did. Instead, he borrowed large amounts of money from bankers, at interest, and used it to pay for the Reconstruction Finance Corporation and the other work-creation projects, which collectively came to be known as the ‘New Deal.’ So ended the last widespread use of a local currency within the U.S.
​

Surely everybody who reads this article would agree that we have many advantages over the people who lived in Worgl, Austria during the Great Depression?!

If they can do it....why can't we?

Here in Canada the only problem that we have to watch out for is that we must pay the same rate of taxation if we earn Calgary Dollars as if we had earned Canadian dollars....so we have to keep our level of bartering at the point where our tax bill doesn't get to high.....but if we volunteered our time and our church earned a local currency from another church....it could be amazing where this could lead!

 

[Hoshiyya]

Most of us see the two witnesses as Elijah, Moses, David, Enoch, etc type of last day, last warning, types.... It will be a head on collision course for the Imitator of the Son of God vs Two witnesses... And it takes two witnesses to start the Fall feasts. ... Should be interesting... as they both have the power to have fire come down from heaven in the sight of men...

Yes but the "latter day David" is Messiah himself.

 

[DennisTate]

Yes but the "latter day David" is Messiah himself.

Yes............ I may be wrong but I am convinced that just as the human being John the Baptist played the role of Elijah at the time of Rabbi Yeshua/Jesus... so also..... a human being in our time period will somehow be a metphorical David.... (I think)????!!!!

 

[Hoshiyya]

Yes............ I may be wrong but I am convinced that just as the human being John the Baptist played the role of Elijah at the time of Rabbi Yeshua/Jesus... so also..... a human being in our time period will somehow be a metphorical David.... (I think)????!!!!

So why did you say "yes", you should have said "no"; the "yes" contradicts your following idea.
The "latter-day David" is either Yeshua or not. Are you arguing multiple people may fulfill the type? If so please clarify.

 

[DennisTate]

So why did you say "yes", you should have said "no"; the "yes" contradicts your following idea.
The "latter-day David" is either Yeshua or not. Are you arguing multiple people may fulfill the type? If so please clarify.

On one level...... every Jew living in Jerusalem.... is supposed to be raised up to a level of spiritual power, courage and wisdom.... that is comparable with King David...... so the answer could be that perhaps... there is a human "David" who is not Messiah Jesus/Yeshua with us again.... as I believed back in the '70's or '80's!!??

Could King David be raised up for the Jews decades before second coming of Jesus?
Is King David raised up for the Jewish people a significant amount of time previous to when the feet of Messiah stand on the Mt. of Olives in fulfillment of Zechariah chapter 14?

It is pretty obvious that Jesus/Yahushua expects us to believe in the specific fulfillment of the words of the prophets.

"Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:" (Luke 24:25)

The Prophet Jeremiah stated clearly that David would be raised up for the Jews.

"But they shall serve the LORD their God, and David their king, whom I will raise up unto them." (Jeremiah 30:9)

It is relevant that Jesus/Yahushua clearly identified John the Baptist as a modern Elijah for his time period.

"And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come?
And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.
But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not,....
Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist." (Matthew 17:10-13)

Could a young, or perhaps not so young Jewish guy be the person who will be raised up for the nation of Israel as another King David much as John the Baptist was another Elijah?

Isaiah speaks about a King Cyrus type of person who was instrumental in assisting the Jewish people to rebuild the second temple to which Jesus/Yahushua came. King Cyrus was a Gentile or possibly a member of the lost tribes of Israel, and did not actually know the God of Abraham very well at all.

"Thus saith the LORD to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden, to subdue nations before him; and I will loose the loins of kings, to open before him the two leaved gates; and the gates shall not be shut;
I will go before thee, and make the crooked places straight: I will break in pieces the gates of brass, and cut in sunder the bars of iron:
And I will give thee the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places, that thou mayest know that I, the LORD, which call [thee] by thy name, [am] the God of Israel.
For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.
I [am] the LORD, and [there is] none else, [there is] no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:" (Isaiah 45:1-5)

Although this King Cyrus person sounds somewhat like Jesus/Yahushua in some important ways the fact that it is mentioned that this person does not know God, proves to me that this is not Rabbi Jesus/Yahushua who in my opinion knew HaShem better than anybody else ever did.

Isaiah 66:5 ¶ Hear the word of the LORD, ye that tremble at his word; Your brethren that hated you, that cast you out for my name's sake, said, Let the LORD be glorified: but he shall appear to your joy, and they shall be ashamed."A voice of noise from the city, a voice from the temple, a voice of the LORD that rendereth recompence to his enemies." (Isaiah 66:6)

This verse seems to indicate that when the Messiah comes to the earth, there is a functioning temple, I assume on the Temple Mount!? It seems that enemies, typified by the historical Antiochus, have gained control of the temple. In this thoroughly left wing earth this is not so hard to imagine. These enemies apparently cause the sacrifices to cease after being offered for 42 months and apparently kick the Levites off the Temple Mount when they cause the sacrifices to cease?!?!

"Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until [the time] come when ye shall say, Blessed [is] he that cometh in the name of the Lord." (Luke 13:35)

Another valid possible way of looking at this verse, because scriptures seldom have one plain simple meaning that even a child could figure out, is that we Christians have a house that is pretty desolate and we may well not see the complete fulfillment of the Messianic kingdom until AFTER the Jewish people are offering sacrifices on their Temple Mount Complex.

I certainly am in no position to rule out a soon to be rapture that may even somehow fulfill Rosh ha Shanah or one of the other Jewish festivals but I tend to suspect from these verses that the full fledged Messianic kingdom may not be ushered in until we Christians admit that the prophet Ezekiel, came in the name of the Lord, and his words are inspired and blessed.

Sooner or later the Jewish people will fulfill each and every word given in Ezekiel chapters 40 to 48 regarding their Jerusalem Third or perhaps Fourth Temple Mount Complex.

I read My Descent Into Death by former atheist Howard Storm who died, went to hell, prayed and sang hymns while there, met Jesus/Yahushua, got saved, and was sent back to finish his lifetime. He studied and became a pastor. His idea of the kingdom of God being set up over two centuries would fit amazing well with the idea of the Jews building and finishing and offering sacrifices in a Jerusalem Temple Mount Complex previous to the time when the will of God is done fully on this earth!?

My point is that we had better be careful that we are NOT against the Jews in their efforts to rebuild their temple especially if we will not see the feet of Messiah on the Mt. of Olives, until after they fulfill many of the prophecies given to them. Actually, I will go further than this, I believe that Christians who believe in the inspiration of every word given through Ezekiel will assist the Jewish people in at least some capacity to accomplish the things that they must do, that we simply would have no clue how to accomplish!

Howard's light being friends told him more about the new world to come. According to them, God wished to usher in the kingdom within the next two hundred years. In order to do so, God had rescinded some of the free will given to creatures, in favor of more divine control over human events. This new world order, according to Howard, will resemble some near-death descriptions of heaven. People will live in such peace and harmony and love that communication will be telepathic, travel instantaneous and the need for clothing and shelter eliminated. The lion will indeed lie down with the lamb.]

(Howard Storm)
.near-death.com/experiences/storm03.html

 

[visionary]

In the speech, Malik [Obama's half brother] addressed the apparent contradiction between his Muslim faith and the goal of rebuilding the Third Temple adjacent to the Dome of the Rock on the Temple Mount. “It’s easy for me to get with the program because I’m a Muslim, you know, a practicing Muslim, and all the principles that are within the program [of building the Third Temple] are within my beliefs,” Malik said. “So, it’s easy for me to step right in and be part of the program.” Arabic-speaking Islam researcher Walid Shoebat has noted on his blog that Malik Obama’s advocacy for building the Third Temple is “blasphemous to his own religion.” Shoebat also points out that Hawkins meets the standard definition of “false prophet” in Islam. Obama’s Brother in Support of Third Temple Built in Jerusalem »

 

[DennisTate]

In the speech, Malik [Obama's half brother] addressed the apparent contradiction between his Muslim faith and the goal of rebuilding the Third Temple adjacent to the Dome of the Rock on the Temple Mount. “It’s easy for me to get with the program because I’m a Muslim, you know, a practicing Muslim, and all the principles that are within the program [of building the Third Temple] are within my beliefs,” Malik said. “So, it’s easy for me to step right in and be part of the program.” Arabic-speaking Islam researcher Walid Shoebat has noted on his blog that Malik Obama’s advocacy for building the Third Temple is “blasphemous to his own religion.” Shoebat also points out that Hawkins meets the standard definition of “false prophet” in Islam. Obama’s Brother in Support of Third Temple Built in Jerusalem »

I so thank you for this Visionary!

In my opinion.... this is a HUGE development in the transition over to the time when the Holy Spirit/ Ruach ha Kodesh is poured out on all flesh!

 

[David Ben Yosef]

Thing is, Muslims and Palestinians are two different things.

But what percentage of Palestinians are Muslims? I know very little about this topic [to my own shame].