Questions from A Muslim

[929]

Hello brothers and sisters, assalamu alaykum. I am a Muslim who has become very interested in Christianity as of late. I wouldn't say I have any intention of converting, but I'd like some answers. If you guys could better help me understand your beautiful religion, it would be greatly appreciated.

I will start off with the first question. If we are redeemed simply by faith in Christ, what is the purpose of our lives?

This I never understood. Many of my christian evangelical friends have told me that as soon as you accept Christ as your savior, salvation is guaranteed. To me this seems like a massive copout. Why not just accept Christ as your savior, then go do as you please? I mean I could go rob a bank, sleep with prostitutes, become a drug addict, etc.... because who cares? I am already saved. It removes any accountability. Now I sure wish it was this easy to attain salvation, but I just can't wrap my head around a God who would grant salvation to a mass murderer simply because he said a 3 min prayer at one point in his life accepting jesus as the lord.

Now I will start here although I have many other questions

 

[GregConstantine]

hello and thank you for your question.

1st, I believe it would be helpful to be aware that we as Orthodox (this word means "correctly believing/teaching) Christians, we are fundamentally very different from your Evangelical friends, eventhough we may use many of the same words and vocabulary.

I think it is important to get that out of the way before going any further.

The reason why I'm personally emphasizing this is because in the past, I've had conversations with Muslims inquiring into Orthodoxy who kept asking me questions based on what Protestants (Evangelicalism is a movement within Protestantism) and Catholicism. Therefore, the conversations were not very fruitful.

 

[ArmyMatt]

welcome to TAW! waalaykum salaam!

we don't agree that it is a once and done thing with the Evangelicals, but that we must grow in Christ. so everyday one must confess Christ, repent, and seek to love God and love neighbor above all else. and at anytime, I can choose to reject God and turn my back on Him. salvation is unending for us.

 

[GregConstantine]

Your question btw, is the very same question I ask Evangelicals! So that'll tell you that our understanding of salvation is very different from theirs.

 

[Shieldmaiden4Christ]

I'm not yet finished with my journey to Orthodoxy, but I will say that the Protestant/Evangelical understanding of salvation is what originally turned me away from that movement because it doesn't fit with how I'd come to understand Scripture. The way I'd always read the Bible was that salvation is a lifelong process. I always feel a little uneasy hearing the sermon at my mother's Methodist church on Christmas Eve. It's almost always the feel-good bits of theology stripped of the parts that involve hard work.

 

[GregConstantine]

The purpose of life taught by the Apostles and the Church Fathers is one of finding union with God. Jesus came to save us and to open the gates of heaven for us. He showed us how to live through His teaching and example. He showed us that we have nothing to fear in death.

Theosis: Partaking of the Divine Nature | Antiochian Orthodox Christian Archdiocese

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

929,

Welcome to TAW! I know you say you don't have any intention at this time of converting....but don't close the door to the possibility!

Orthodoxy is the ORIGINAL Church, the original right-teaching, the first and only fullness of Christ's Gospel message, sacraments, and spirituality. And in the ancient faith as well as Orthodoxy today, the idea of being 'saved' and already having one foot in heaven done deal is NOT what we teach or believe! Salvation is a PROCESS for us, and it ultimately is God's judgment and decision if we end up in heaven. We believe in THEOSIS, the process of becoming more like God through worship, a rich prayer life, fasting, faith, trusting in the sacraments of the Church, and imitating the holy saints as well as asking the intercessions of our saintly brethren in the Church Triumphant.

Please know there is a vast gulf between the true ancient faith of Orthodoxy and the evangelicals who lack proper authority, right teaching, and have no ties to the True Faith of Orthodoxy.

 

[Mary of Bethany]

Hi, 929. Welcome to The Ancient Way!

I grew up in a church that taught that once you were saved, you could never lose your salvation, but what I saw in real life didn't seem to match up with that. When confronted with someone who was no longer living the life of a Christian, they would just say that the person had never really been saved in the first place. That didn't seem truthful to me.

Mary

 

[Wryetui]

Welcome here brother! We are all God's sons and daughters no matter what religion do we have.

Between Orthodoxy and other Evangelical churches there is no comparison. Orthodoxy is the church from the beginning, the one church that stayed unchanged no matter how many problems did we have, our church stayed as the apostles and the Holy Fathers left It. We may sound that we are selfish if we say that we are the right and the correct church, but it is true, and the truth has to be deffended.

As I said on other occasion, you can't say you are saved. Nobody can, saving and redemption is a lifelong process, you must gain your salvation everyday like Adam gained his food by working the earth. It's quite a small price to pay for the time we will meet our Father.

 

[buzuxi02]

I will start off with the first question. If we are redeemed simply by faith in Christ, what is the purpose of our lives?

As others have said we Orthodox christians dont exactly believe this. We believe the Messiah came into the world to save it. Some ways he did that:
1. He tore the veil of seperation between man and God. He destroyed death releasing the souls from Hades.

2. He showed us that man is a complete person when both his spiritual nature(soul) and material nature(body and soul) are unified in its hypostasis. The sepration of the soul from the body at physical is an anomaly. His ressurection showed the proof of this and we await the final judgment when the ressurection of the dead is fullfilled and we are transfigured as intended.

3. Christ came into the world during the fullness of time when the knowledge of the true God was to move from its origins (as the faith of a small tribe the hebrews) to all the nations.

4. The oppurtunity to partake of the divine nature if we choose to do so is now open to us.

This I never understood. Many of my christian evangelical friends have told me that as soon as you accept Christ as your savior, salvation is guaranteed.

Completely untrue. One must successfully finish the race to receive the crown. No instant salvation nor is there a 'bare minimum'.

 

[Righttruth]

welcome to TAW! waalaykum salaam!

we don't agree that it is a once and done thing with the Evangelicals, but that we must grow in Christ. so everyday one must confess Christ, repent, and seek to love God and love neighbor above all else. and at anytime, I can choose to reject God and turn my back on Him. salvation is unending for us.

 

[Righttruth]

I'm not yet finished with my journey to Orthodoxy, but I will say that the Protestant/Evangelical understanding of salvation is what originally turned me away from that movement because it doesn't fit with how I'd come to understand Scripture. The way I'd always read the Bible was that salvation is a lifelong process. I always feel a little uneasy hearing the sermon at my mother's Methodist church on Christmas Eve. It's almost always the feel-good bits of theology stripped of the parts that involve hard work.

 

[Kassi]

wa alaykumusalam,

Although other posters have given admirable responses, I just wanted to add that I am an Orthodox Christian who converted from Islam. Once upon a time I thought as you, that it was unjust and made no sense. Then I discovered the ancient Christian teachings that the Orthodox have preserved and transmitted since the first apostles who learned from Jesus himself what true Christianity is all about. Then it all fell into place for me. I discovered there was a way for me to experience Allah's loving forgiveness and walk the path that would bring me closer and closer to Him. I am only a few baby steps on that path, but if you have any specific questions about what it is like to be a Muslim who became a Christian, I'd be happy to try and answer them.

(I have only been lurking, but actually created an account just so I could reply to your post!)
wasalam
Kassi

 

[~Anastasia~]

Welcome to 929, RightTruth, and Kassi! Three newly registered members.

 

[xenia]

To me this seems like a massive copout.

It did to me too, and that's why I left the Evangelical world for Orthodoxy.

You are very perceptive, 929, to have put your finger on one of the most serious flaws in Evangelicalism.

 

[Lukaris]

Welcome to TAW. I think what gets lost in much of Evangelical Christianity is the matter of how we live our lives in conformity to the will of God. The will of God is for us to love God with all our heart, all, our soul & all our mind & to love our neighbor as one's self (Matthew 22:36-40, Mark 12:28-34 etc. the Lord's completion of Deuteronomy 6:4-5 & Leviticus 19:18). Of course the Evangelical Christian agrees with this but will also note that none of us can truly fulfill this. They are correct on this point & will correctly point out that only by grace are we saved (Ephesians 2:8-9) but there is another verse that says that we are saved for good works which completes the meaning of salvation by grace (Ephesians 2:8-10). Many evangelicals believe in reciprocating faith with good works anyway but to theologically misunderstand this point leads to undermining the role of good works within living by faith; indeed the Epistle of James chapter 2 lays this out & sums it up in verse 26 by saying," faith without works is dead".

The point Evangelicals prematurely overemphasize on an individual level is justification by faith (Romans 4 & 5) as if by one confession salvation is sealed & assurance that further sins are already covered by the cross of our Lord (although many would still advise some sort of ongoing confession of sins). The only example this would apply to would be true confession before death (see the thief on the cross,"St. Dismas" in Orthodoxy, gospel of Luke 24:39-43). Indeed in Romans 12 & 13, St. Paul concentrates on the ongoing aspects & challenges of living daily faith in conformity to what the Lord preached in the sermon on the mount in Matthew 5,6, & 7). Indeed if one also reads the 1st Epistle of John (especially chapter 1 verse 5-12) one cannot help to realize how precarious commitment to our Lord's commands to love God & neighbor & treat others as we would want to be by this standard can be.

If you need to look up Bible passages see: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/

 

[Righttruth]

wa alaykumusalam,

Although other posters have given admirable responses, I just wanted to add that I am an Orthodox Christian who converted from Islam. Once upon a time I thought as you, that it was unjust and made no sense. Then I discovered the ancient Christian teachings that the Orthodox have preserved and transmitted since the first apostles who learned from Jesus himself what true Christianity is all about. Then it all fell into place for me. I discovered there was a way for me to experience Allah's loving forgiveness and walk the path that would bring me closer and closer to Him. I am only a few baby steps on that path, but if you have any specific questions about what it is like to be a Muslim who became a Christian, I'd be happy to try and answer them.

(I have only been lurking, but actually created an account just so I could reply to your post!)
wasalam
Kassi

May you grow in the knowledge of our Savior! Be blessed.

 

[Righttruth]

Welcome to 929, RightTruth, and Kassi! Three newly registered members.

Thank you!

 

[Righttruth]

It did to me too, and that's why I left the Evangelical world for Orthodoxy.

You are very perceptive, 929, to have put your finger on one of the most serious flaws in Evangelicalism.

One indicated that Tv evangelists behave as though they have their pants on fire ( excuse my blunt language!)!

 

[Righttruth]

Welcome to TAW. I think what gets lost in much of Evangelical Christianity is the matter of how we live our lives in conformity to the will of God. The will of God is for us to love God with all our heart, all, our soul & all our mind & to love our neighbor as one's self (Matthew 22:36-40, Mark 12:28-34 etc. the Lord's completion of Deuteronomy 6:4-5 & Leviticus 19:18). Of course the Evangelical Christian agrees with this but will also note that none of us can truly fulfill this. They are correct on this point & will correctly point out that only by grace are we saved (Ephesians 2:8-9) but there is another verse that says that we are saved for good works which completes the meaning of salvation by grace (Ephesians 2:8-10). Many evangelicals believe in reciprocating faith with good works anyway but to theologically misunderstand this point leads to undermining the role of good works within living by faith; indeed the Epistle of James chapter 2 lays this out & sums it up in verse 26 by saying," faith without works is dead".

The point Evangelicals prematurely overemphasize on an individual level is justification by faith (Romans 4 & 5) as if by one confession salvation is sealed & assurance that further sins are already covered by the cross of our Lord (although many would still advise some sort of ongoing confession of sins). The only example this would apply to would be true confession before death (see the thief on the cross,"St. Dismas" in Orthodoxy, gospel of Luke 24:39-43). Indeed in Romans 12 & 13, St. Paul concentrates on the ongoing aspects & challenges of living daily faith in conformity to what the Lord preached in the sermon on the mount in Matthew 5,6, & 7). Indeed if one also reads the 1st Epistle of John (especially chapter 1 verse 5-12) one cannot help to realize how precarious commitment to our Lord's commands to love God & neighbor & treat others as we would want to be by this standard can be.

Well put!