Questions about sin

[Mimidi]

Hello.

I'm 21 and I've had a christian education when I was kid but it's only recently that I seriously started to look into it and after much research I found myself wondering about sins and God's sense of justice.

During a long time I was just agnostic and I was following my own sens of justice, constructing myself a code of honor that I respected at all time. Basically it was about never doing anything to hurt others (both physically and mentally) and seeking altruism. That's why I ended up hating people who willingly hurt others for their own pleasure (bullies, some criminals, people who step on others for money and social recognition) to the point when I thought they deserved to die. Since I've looked into Christianity again I've understood that it was a sin to hate others because, as much as the sin itself can be hated, we mustn't hate the sinners because they can still change and ask for forgiveness. I already saw most sins as bad things I wouldn't do and this is an exemple of a sin that I understood and stopped to do once I've looked enough into Christianity but there are still some sins that I don't understand at all.

Here is an example that I've stumbled across:
http://peacebyjesus.witnesstoday.org/40SinsThatWillSendYouToHell.html
The one sin that shocked me is effeminacy.
I don't understand how this can be a sin. I don't even see how it can be considered as even remotely bad.
I'm shocked that this is a sin because I am a guy with a lot of feminine traits. I used to see it as a part of myself and I loved it. Mentally, I'm straight and I'm fine with being a man but my behavior clearly correspond what our culture associate with being a girl. I'm so girly that when I was in high school talking with my classmates (most of them were girls) they said to me that I should have been a girl and I couldn't even object because I secretly agreed and liked the idea of me being a girl. Physically, I dress myself as a boy but I did choose to have long hair because it partially reflected this side of my personality and I wanted to try cross-dressing when I would have my own house.

I don't see what's wrong with being a boy with girly traits. What kind of justice and love would it be to throw away someone in hell for this even though he believe in Jesus and love him?

The same goes for homosexuality, which doesn't concern me. It harms no one and is the contrary of hate since it's about love.

Our society made great advances when it comes to accepting each others. We accepted homosexuality and we are starting to see more and more men who don't hide anymore their feminine traits and vice versa for women. Accepting each other is the first step toward loving each other, which is what God want us to do the most.

Is there any evidence that God really thinks things such as effeminacy and homosexuality are sins or was it invented by some intolerant people? Because if it really is the case I would be scared and I would wonder if our religion is really a matter of love and justice. God love us so much that he gave his own Son for us, he accepted us despite our sins, how could he be so intolerant toward our gender identity? If such things are really sins then it appears to me that when their will be no sin anymore (in paradise), everyone will be same.

 

[-57]

You need to do a word study.

effeminate 3120. malakos....a male who submits his body to unnatural lewdness,

1 Cor 6:9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,

Do you think the way the word effeminate is used in 1 Cor 6:9 means "being a boy with girly traits"

 

[BeStill&Know]

Hello.

I'm 21 and I've had a christian education when I was kid but it's only recently that I seriously started to look into it and after much research I found myself wondering about sins and God's sense of justice.

During a long time I was just agnostic and I was following my own sens of justice, constructing myself a code of honor that I respected at all time. Basically it was about never doing anything to hurt others (both physically and mentally) and seeking altruism. That's why I ended up hating people who willingly hurt others for their own pleasure (bullies, some criminals, people who step on others for money and social recognition) to the point when I thought they deserved to die. Since I've looked into Christianity again I've understood that it was a sin to hate others because, as much as the sin itself can be hated, we mustn't hate the sinners because they can still change and ask for forgiveness. I already saw most sins as bad things I wouldn't do and this is an exemple of a sin that I understood and stopped to do once I've looked enough into Christianity but there are still some sins that I don't understand at all.

Here is an example that I've stumbled across:
http://peacebyjesus.witnesstoday.org/40SinsThatWillSendYouToHell.html
The one sin that shocked me is effeminacy.
I don't understand how this can be a sin. I don't even see how it can be considered as even remotely bad.
I'm shocked that this is a sin because I am a guy with a lot of feminine traits. I used to see it as a part of myself and I loved it. Mentally, I'm straight and I'm fine with being a man but my behavior clearly correspond what our culture associate with being a girl. I'm so girly that when I was in high school talking with my classmates (most of them were girls) they said to me that I should have been a girl and I couldn't even object because I secretly agreed and liked the idea of me being a girl. Physically, I dress myself as a boy but I did choose to have long hair because it partially reflected this side of my personality and I wanted to try cross-dressing when I would have my own house.

I don't see what's wrong with being a boy with girly traits. What kind of justice and love would it be to throw away someone in hell for this even though he believe in Jesus and love him?

The same goes for homosexuality, which doesn't concern me. It harms no one and is the contrary of hate since it's about love.

Our society made great advances when it comes to accepting each others. We accepted homosexuality and we are starting to see more and more men who don't hide anymore their feminine traits and vice versa for women. Accepting each other is the first step toward loving each other, which is what God want us to do the most.

Is there any evidence that God really thinks things such as effeminacy and homosexuality are sins or was it invented by some intolerant people? Because if it really is the case I would be scared and I would wonder if our religion is really a matter of love and justice. God love us so much that he gave his own Son for us, he accepted us despite our sins, how could he be so intolerant toward our gender identity? If such things are really sins then it appears to me that when their will be no sin anymore (in paradise), everyone will be same.

An interesting point. Though female I was a tom-boy in my early youth and because male clothes were made better and much more comfortable than female clothes, I often wore male shirts and jeans, with make-up and fix my hair femininely of course, earrings too.Through study of the Father's Word I know better now. We cannot create a god to suit our notions, or the fickle trends of the culture we live in. My friend, we have to come to Him on His TERMS, not ours. For He created us, and not the other way around.
Effeminacy, and homosexuality are both spoken harshly against in God's Word, as you know...
That being said, we are all sinners. We all have a point of severe weakness, a handicap of our flesh, mind, spirit that severs us from a Righteous, Holy and Loving Father whose desire is for us to seek Him, Love Him, and Obey His Son. We as sinners must all repent, and accept His Son Jesus, as the only One who is clean enough because He committed no sin, as the only One sent by Our Father to take OUR judgement for all our sins upon Himself, so we can be now ADOPTED into the Holy FATHERS Family for eternity. The only way to escape Hell is Jesus, not us or whatever we feel comfortable believing. Peace be upon you.

 

[BeStill&Know]

You need to do a word study.

effeminate 3120. malakos....a male who submits his body to unnatural lewdness,

1 Cor 6:9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,

Do you think the way the word effeminate is used in 1 Cor 6:9 means "being a boy with girly traits"

1 Corinthians 6:9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

 

[grasping the after wind]

I think many people have what I consider to be strange ideas of what sin is. Sin is, simply put, rebelling against God. No matter what form it takes that is what sin is. There are no actions that are objectively sinful outside of the context of how it relates to God and no actions that are objectively righteous out of context to how it relates to God. What is there about eating a fruit that would make it objectively a sin? Yet that is the sin committed by both Adm and Eve in Genesis and the prototype of all subsequent sinfulness. The sin was not the eating of a fruit but rather the rebellion against God that the eating of the fruit signified. And also what is there about slaughtering an animal or feeding the poor that is inherently righteous? It is willingly complying with God's commands that makes the act righteous, not the act itself.

 

[Mimidi]

Thanks for your answers.

You need to do a word study.

effeminate 3120. malakos....a male who submits his body to unnatural lewdness,

1 Cor 6:9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,

Do you think the way the word effeminate is used in 1 Cor 6:9 means "being a boy with girly traits"

Looks like I was misguided about this word's definition. However I did research this word on google beforehand and most results correspond to what I said, where did you get your definition from? Maybe it's a word that changed meaning other time.

My friend, we have to come to Him on His TERMS, not ours.

That's true, but our God is supposed to be infinitely good and loving AND it is said that we have the ability to differentiate good from evil just like Him. I fail to see what's evil in these things and so I don't understand why it would be just to punish it so severely. Sure He IS God and he can do whatever he wants but he is supposed to be love, so why punish, for example two homosexuals who love each over?

I think many people have what I consider to be strange ideas of what sin is. Sin is, simply put, rebelling against God. No matter what form it takes that is what sin is. There are no actions that are objectively sinful outside of the context of how it relates to God and no actions that are objectively righteous out of context to how it relates to God. What is there about eating a fruit that would make it objectively a sin? Yet that is the sin committed by both Adm and Eve in Genesis and the prototype of all subsequent sinfulness. The sin was not the eating of a fruit but rather the rebellion against God that the eating of the fruit signified. And also what is there about slaughtering an animal or feeding the poor that is inherently righteous? It is willingly complying with God's commands that makes the act righteous, not the act itself.

But what if you do it without the intention to act against Him? I think you can be homosexual and still love God and respect his other commandments. I'm sorry but what you're saying is making God looks like a menacing God who punishes anything that doesn't go his way even if there is nothing bad about it. It's like we were blackmailed. Punishing evil is justice but what is the meaning of punishing such things?

 

[-57]

Thanks for your answers.

Looks like I was misguided about this word's definition. However I did research this word on google beforehand and most results correspond to what I said, where did you get your definition from? Maybe it's a word that changed meaning other time.

Click on effeminate in this post or post 2

 

[grasping the after wind]

But what if you do it without the intention to act against him? I think you can be homosexual and still love God and respect his other commandments. I'm sorry but what you're saying is making God looks like a menacing God who punishes anything that doesn't go his way even if there is nothing bad about it. It's like we were blackmailed. Punishing evil is justice but what is the meaning of punishing such things?

How can you rebel against God without intending to rebel against God? You equate sin with evil? IMO They are two different things. Sinners can always be forgiven and God is looking for any chance to do just that : Evil asks for no forgiveness and seeks an apology from God. You surely can be homosexual and love God and respect other commandants and God loves homosexuals as much as he loves all other sinners. What I said about sin in no way makes God some control freak looking to punish anyone that gets out of line. He is the perfect parent that sets rules for his children that will lead them toward the best course and when they rebel he is always ready to forgive and forget but he is not willing to say He was wrong and they were right about it. God is not angry, he is the father of the prodigal son. Unfortunately too many Christians think like the brother and way too many other Christians think they are smarter or know better what is right and wrong than God.

 

[graceandpeace]

Hello.

I'm 21 and I've had a christian education when I was kid but it's only recently that I seriously started to look into it and after much research I found myself wondering about sins and God's sense of justice.

During a long time I was just agnostic and I was following my own sens of justice, constructing myself a code of honor that I respected at all time. Basically it was about never doing anything to hurt others (both physically and mentally) and seeking altruism. That's why I ended up hating people who willingly hurt others for their own pleasure (bullies, some criminals, people who step on others for money and social recognition) to the point when I thought they deserved to die. Since I've looked into Christianity again I've understood that it was a sin to hate others because, as much as the sin itself can be hated, we mustn't hate the sinners because they can still change and ask for forgiveness. I already saw most sins as bad things I wouldn't do and this is an exemple of a sin that I understood and stopped to do once I've looked enough into Christianity but there are still some sins that I don't understand at all.

Here is an example that I've stumbled across:
http://peacebyjesus.witnesstoday.org/40SinsThatWillSendYouToHell.html
The one sin that shocked me is effeminacy.
I don't understand how this can be a sin. I don't even see how it can be considered as even remotely bad.
I'm shocked that this is a sin because I am a guy with a lot of feminine traits. I used to see it as a part of myself and I loved it. Mentally, I'm straight and I'm fine with being a man but my behavior clearly correspond what our culture associate with being a girl. I'm so girly that when I was in high school talking with my classmates (most of them were girls) they said to me that I should have been a girl and I couldn't even object because I secretly agreed and liked the idea of me being a girl. Physically, I dress myself as a boy but I did choose to have long hair because it partially reflected this side of my personality and I wanted to try cross-dressing when I would have my own house.

I don't see what's wrong with being a boy with girly traits. What kind of justice and love would it be to throw away someone in hell for this even though he believe in Jesus and love him?

The same goes for homosexuality, which doesn't concern me. It harms no one and is the contrary of hate since it's about love.

Our society made great advances when it comes to accepting each others. We accepted homosexuality and we are starting to see more and more men who don't hide anymore their feminine traits and vice versa for women. Accepting each other is the first step toward loving each other, which is what God want us to do the most.

Is there any evidence that God really thinks things such as effeminacy and homosexuality are sins or was it invented by some intolerant people? Because if it really is the case I would be scared and I would wonder if our religion is really a matter of love and justice. God love us so much that he gave his own Son for us, he accepted us despite our sins, how could he be so intolerant toward our gender identity? If such things are really sins then it appears to me that when their will be no sin anymore (in paradise), everyone will be same.

I would avoid websites like the one you linked. None of us can determine how God will judge any person.

As far as the questions asked, I invite you to visit this forum on here, http://www.christianforums.com/forums/whosoever-will-may-come-liberal.401/

There are website rules about where homosexuality may be openly discussed, & the forum linked above is one where open discussion is permitted.

On a related note, I think you would fit best into one of the mainline churches, as many of them are affirming or generally welcoming of LGBT people.

 

[JackRT]

You need to do a word study.

effeminate 3120. malakos....a male who submits his body to unnatural lewdness,

1 Cor 6:9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,
has changed the word effeminate is used in 1 Cor 6:9 means "being a boy with girly traits"

Clearly the modern English understanding of the word has evolved over the years.

 

[-57]

Clearly the modern English understanding of the word has evolved over the years.

Because a word may change over time...it doesn't mean the biblical intent changes.

 

[Mimidi]

You equate sin with evil? IMO They are two different things. Sinners can always be forgiven and God is looking for any chance to do just that : Evil asks for no forgiveness and seeks an apology from God.

Yes, maybe that was my mistake to think evil is the same as sin.
God is our father and if we desobey him then this is sin, did I get it right?
The thing is that I don't see the point of some of his interdictions because they doesn't seem wrong according to my conception of right and wrong, therefor they only seem to get in the way of our liberty. Now I'm not assuming that my sens of right and wrong is better than God's one but I said I didn't understand so I was hoping someone could have tell me if what I was talking about was really a sin and if it was, then maybe someone would have been able to tell me what's wrong with it. Thankfully, it appears that my girly traits aren't a sin according to the word's translation so I won't have to change.
Still if they were sin it would have been painful but I would have tried to get rid of them despite it being against my will and my liberty because I love God and I want to go to paradise (I do fear hell, even if I fear even more non-existence (atheistics point of view)).

 

[-57]

On a related note, I think you would fit best into one of the mainline churches, as many of them are affirming or generally welcoming of LGBT people.

Many of the mainline churches are turning more and more apostate by "affirming" that particular lifestyle.

 

[JackRT]

In any discussion of moral standards I think that it might be helpful to discuss the difference between sin and evil. But before attempting that, let us examine a similar situation in the secular realm. Governments at every level pass legislation that prohibits certain actions. We use the word 'crime' to refer to the deliberate breaking of such a law. However, is the commission of a crime the same thing as committing an evil act? Here we come up against just how we might define evil. For the purposes of this discussion let me give a very simple definition:

Evil --- any deliberate action or inaction which compromises the physical or psychological integrity of a human being.

This, of course, is a narrow definition and we could likely spend a very long time extending it and refining it. Let us leave that at least for the moment. The point that I am sneaking up on here is that 'what is evil is not necessarily a crime' and conversely 'what is a crime is not necessarily evil'. To me this is obvious but let me just attempt an illustration of each statement.

First, 'what is evil is not necessarily a crime'. By my definition above, the killing of another human being is to be regarded as an evil act. However, the law does not regard this as a crime if it is done in self defence or in war.

Second, 'what is a crime is not necessarily evil'. In Singapore, for example, it is a crime to chew gum. I think most would not quibble about this not being evil according to the above definition.

Can we make similar distinctions in the spiritual realm concerning sin and evil? I believe that we can. First, we need a working definition of sin. Let me suggest a very simple definition:

Sin --- doing that which is forbidden by a spiritual authority.

Once again, we could debate this definition. Perhaps the most controversial aspect of this definition might involve whether or not a spiritual authority, such as a church or a scripture, can actually express the will of a Deity. Setting that aside, we once again are faced with two problems. The point being that 'what is evil is not necessarily a sin' and conversely 'what is a sin is not necessarily evil'.

First, 'what is evil is not necessarily a sin'. I think that most would agree that to torture someone is an evil. However, if we just look at Christian scripture, I do not see any specific prohibition that would make torture a sin. A similar argument could be applied to female genital mutilation (circumcision).

Second, 'what is a sin is not necessarily evil'. Here, we can get into a very much more controversial debates. It is certainly true that Christian scripture regards homosexual actions as sinful. However, within society at large and within a number of Christian churches in particular, homosexual behaviour is no longer regarded as an evil in and of itself. It is also certainly true that Jewish scripture regards the breaking of the dietary laws as sinful and even an abomination. However, within society at large and within a number of Jewish traditions in particular, the breaking of the dietary laws is no longer regarded as an evil in and of itself.

The distinctions made here between crime and evil and also between sin and evil lead us in a real quandry for society at large. The western world has become, and is increasingly becoming, extremely diverse in language, culture and religion. There is also no real way of reversing this. Since different religions cannot agree on what is sin, I do not think that we can rely on religion entirely to inform our moral and ethical behaviour. Since what is regarded as sin has so often in the past led us into framing our laws to determine what is criminal, I think we need a new approach to the problem. We need an approach that avoids the imposition of one set of religious beliefs on society at large --- an approach broadly constructed on a concensus of what is evil and therefore what is criminal. Leave what is regarded as sin to the consciences of those in particular religious traditions.

 

[graceandpeace]

Many of the mainline churches are turning more and more apostate by "affirming" that particular lifestyle.

From this forum's statement of purpose:

This forum is for discussion of questions with non-Christians and new believers. There are some areas of theology in which different Christians may believe differently. In these situations, we would ask Christians to refrain from debating the matter here (emphasis mine)

http://www.christianforums.com/threads/exploring-christianity-statement-of-purpose.7918239/

 

[JackRT]

Because a word may change over time...it doesn't mean the biblical intent changes.

It is a problem of communication if a modern translation of scripture uses words that have an archaic meaning that misleads a modern reader.

 

[-57]

From this forum's statement of purpose:

This forum is for discussion of questions with non-Christians and new believers. There are some areas of theology in which different Christians may believe differently. In these situations, we would ask Christians to refrain from debating the matter here (emphasis mine)

http://www.christianforums.com/threads/exploring-christianity-statement-of-purpose.7918239/

My apologies....I didn't read the S-O-P.

 

[-57]

It is a problem of communication if a modern translation of scripture uses words that have an archaic meaning that misleads a modern reader.

I presented a link that explained the proper meaning of the word.

 

[JackRT]

I presented a link that explained the proper meaning of the word.

It may indeed be the proper meaning but it is certainly not the commonly understood meaning today.

 

[-57]

It may indeed be the proper meaning but it is certainly not the commonly understood meaning today.

Then the commonly understood meaning today is unbiblical.