Question to Protestants regarding certain Catholic beliefs

Rick Otto

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Yet, catholics adamantly claim they don't pray to Mary.

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Some of them actually don't.
And I may be mistaken, but maybe you meant to say they claim they don't worship Mary. That claim contradicts their definition of worship, specifically hyper-dulia.
Forgive me if I've lost the context here.
 
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Some of them actually don't.
And I may be mistaken, but maybe you meant to say they claim they don't worship Mary. That claim contradicts their definition of worship, specifically hyper-dulia.
Forgive me if I've lost the context here.
Both. The official position of the Roman Catholic Church is that they do not teach or endorse praying to or worshiping of Mary.

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Some of them actually don't.
And I may be mistaken, but maybe you meant to say they claim they don't worship Mary. That claim contradicts their definition of worship, specifically hyper-dulia.
Forgive me if I've lost the context here.
They don't worship Mary....they venerate her. They don't pray to Mary.....they ask her to pray for them. Matthew 1 is not the genealogy of Joseph....it is the genealogy of Mary's husband. The list goes on.

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Linet Kihonge

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I think I've come to particular convictions and goodbye to RCCs because no one has said anything on cultus latria. Otherwise, whoever Mary is .... I think I would like to stick to Mary the mother of Jesus Christ or the Wife of Joseph. Also, whoever Mary is, the dragon was after the children of the "woman" or the children who obeyed God's word and the bible doesn't say where she is or if the dragon continued pursuing her! So we are not pursuing "Mary" in anyway or her children but rather how comes she sounds like a "Goddess?" #unfortunate!!!
 
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MarkRohfrietsch

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I think I've come to particular convictions and goodbye to RCCs because no one has said anything on cultus latria. Otherwise, whoever Mary is .... I think I would like to stick to Mary the mother of Jesus Christ or the Wife of Joseph. Also, whoever Mary is, the dragon was after the children of the "woman" or the children who obeyed God's word and the bible doesn't say where she is or if the dragon continued pursuing her! So we are not pursuing "Mary" in anyway or her children but rather how comes she sounds like a "Goddess?" #unfortunate!!!

Cultus latria; Adoration. God Adored Mary enough to bear His Son (which includes His divinity as well as His humanity); Jesus Christ adored His mother enough to ensure that she had a guardian that could care for her in her old age (St. John); so I will follow the example of Scripture and of God the Father, and of Jesus Christ, and hold the Blessed Virgin Mary in very high esteem. Yes, there are some issues with Catholic interpretation and application (from my Lutheran perspective), but not in the honoring of Mary itself.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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Hello, i'm here because i'm interesting in understanding the Protestant point of view that contends with Catholic teachings. I myself was raised in a Protestant church and heard all the anti-catholic statements, I've always been one of those who wanted to refute the Catholic church however upon reading the Bible carefully, I'm beginning to think that most protestant beliefs against catholic practices are a bit wrong, which leads me here to see what your thoughts are in regards to some Biblical back up supporting Catholic practices and theology.

I'll start of with a few areas first

1. Referring to Mary as the Mother of God.
> Why are protestants so against this title, when it is actually true in away. If you don't deny that Mary is the actual mother of Jesus, likewise do not deny that Jesus was also fully God, then what is the problem? Isn't saying Mary is the mother of Jesus, saying "Mary is the mother of God"? I mean, Elizabeth said "the mother of my Lord" to her, and Revelations does talk about her in such a high fashion. Catholic's don't believe this statement means she is above or pre-exists God but just making sure that the divine nature of Jesus is not denied.

1. Praying to Mary, angels, and the Saints?
I strictly thought this to be unbiblical, idolatry, etc etc.. and this was the first immediate practice that I ventured in refuting. However, after reading the Bible I understand the side of Catholics on this.

For one, Catholics believe that asking Mary, angels, and Saints for prayers is nowhere different than asking someone in church to pray for them. I mean, if protestants cling to the "Jesus is the only mediator (which is true) between God and man" then wouldn't it be hypocritical on a protestant to ask for a fellow church mate for prayers? Does asking someone to intercede for us contradict the "Jesus is the only mediator to God" doctrine?

Now, some may say: "Well, one of the reasons why is because how can the Saints hear the prayers of millions of people around the world, in different languages that they never understood when they were alive"? Which is a logical answer.
However, all protestant churches teach how Satan goes around the world, tempting every single person around the world, through out time, and with different dialects to sin. If you believe that Satan -a fallen angel, the king of evil- has this near-omni present power, and this ability to speak in different languages to millions of people around the world then why can't you believe that a faithful servant of God (who is in heaven) can do petitioning/intercession for millions of people? Doesn't the Holy Spirit grant his servants the gift of tongues?

I don't think the book of Revelation refers directly to Mary. The idea that it does is, I believe, a Catholic interpolation, as is the idea that she is a "Mediatrix." However, even with that being said, I'm not going to treat my Catholic brothers and sisters in a derogatory fashion by trying to crush their long-winded deductions. Instead, I'll just insist that we all analyze and refine our hermeneutical applications of the Bible.

2PhiloVoid
 
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It sounds strange that God adored a mere human being.
I don't see anything wrong with that. God adores all His creations.

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keltoi

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Not really; He adores you and I enough to send His son to die for us.:oldthumbsup:
I don't see anything wrong with that. God adores all His creations.

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But he adores us unequally? I can get that God does "hate" certain people but I can't get that of those that he loves he adores some more than others.
 
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MarkRohfrietsch

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But he adores us unequally? I can get that God does "hate" certain people but I can't get that of those that he loves he adores some more than others.
Does He? We can not presume to know the mystery of God's divine will. God does as God does; and His divine will is flawless even though being at times mysterious.
 
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keltoi

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Out of all the people who could have given birth to Jesus he chose Mary because he "adored her enough". That is what I get from your post. If he adores everyone equally then Mary was chosen for a different reason.
We can not presume to know the mystery of God's divine will. God does as God does; and His divine will is flawless even though being at times mysterious.
I wonder then why you said he chose Mary because he "adored her enough". The adoration aspect seemed to be what your post centred on and the fact you said it indicates to me that you know the answer even though you appear to be back tracking now.
 
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Cis.jd

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God is Spirit... God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.” John 4:24

Mary gave birth to the flesh and blood man, Jesus Christ.

God became flesh. John 1:14

He was made a little lower than the angels.

But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, for the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that He, by the grace of God, might taste death for everyone. Hebrews 2:9



JLB

But Jesus Christ is still God, nothing less. Even though she bore him in human form, you can not separate his humanity from his divinity. That is like saying there is two Jesus', when in reality he was one WHOLE God. His subjection of himself "made lower than the angels" did not make him any less of divine therefore if you say "Jesus" you are fully saying God. The name "Jesus" has no lower value than the name "God", not by even a %. Denying Mary as the mother of God but only his humanity is saying that there is a difference between Jesus as a man and God, when in scripture he was God, just with skin.
 
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Cis.jd

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Critical thinking:

"O Mother of Perpetual Help, thou art the dispenser of every grace that God grants us in our misery; it is for this cause that He hath made thee so powerful, so rich, so kind, that thou mightest assist us in our miseries. Thou art the advocate of the most wretched and abandoned sinners, if they but come unto thee; come once more to my assistance, for I commend myself to thee. In thy hands I place my eternal salvation; to thee I entrust my soul. Enroll me among thy most faithful servants; take me under thy protection and it is enough for me: yes, for if thou protect me, I shall fear nothing; not my sins, for thou wilt obtain for me their pardon and remission; not the evil spirits, for thou art mightier than all the powers of hell; not even Jesus, my Judge, for He is appeased by a single prayer from thee. I fear only that through my own negligence I may forget to recommend myself to thee and so I shall be lost. My dear Lady, obtain for me the forgiveness of my sins, love for Jesus, final perseverance and the grace to have recourse to thee at all times, O Mother of Perpetual Help.

Who is MARY really???
I've been to baptist churches (as i said, i grew up as a baptist) in where the Pastor was given such high praise of his connection to God. A lot of the members only trust those Pastors in the words they speak in comparison to any other member in that church, they highly believe the message they've given and always asked for their aid and help by keeping contact, praying for them, and helping them become stronger in faith by whatever he says in relation to his views on God.I also underlined a part in your quote that you didn't bother to register in thought. I don't see anything wrong with what is quoted in your post, because i see nothing different from protestants towards their church leaders.
 
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Cis.jd

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The Greek word kecharitomene is also used in Sirach 18:17 where it speaks about a generous man. This man is not sinless, since it is an advice meant for us all. This fact speaks against understanding Luk 1:28 speaking about Mary being sinless - it speaks about her being wise or generous

Actually it isn't. The word that Luke uses--κεχαριτωμένη, kecharitomene-- is found no where else in scripture. The reason why your comment in opposition to the understanding of Lk 1:28 (being just wise/generous) is wrong is simply because the word *Chaire* is said before kecharitomene which translates as "Hail" and that phrase when translated to latin is Ave, gratia plena. In short, the "full of grace" stated in Luke (when using the greek) is phrased as a title rather than an adjective like in Acts or John.
 
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keltoi

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Luke1_28.png
Actually it isn't. The word that Luke uses--κεχαριτωμένη, kecharitomene-- is found no where else in scripture. The reason why your comment in opposition to the understanding of Lk 1:28 (being just wise/generous) is wrong is simply because the word *Chaire* is said before kecharitomene which translates as "Hail" and that phrase when translated to latin is Ave, gratia plena. In short, the "full of grace" stated in Luke (when using the greek) is phrased as a title rather than an adjective like in Acts or John.
Check the screenshot
 
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Job8

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I don't think the book of Revelation refers directly to Mary.
The woman clothed with the sun is symbolic of redeemed Israel, not Mary, and that is evident from the entire chapter. Since Christ came from Israel, he is the child depicted therein.

Mary is given no prominence after the Gospels, since God wants men to focus on the Lord Jesus Christ, not Mary, Joseph, John the Baptizer, or anyone else. The cult of Mary arose a few hundred years after the apostles had departed, and false teaching began to permeate the churches.
 
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