Question about the RCC teaching of Outside the Church...

[bbbbbbb]

Just a minute. You talk as though this is an attack line used by Protestants to defame the Roman Catholic Church. In fact, we are so used to hearing Catholics tell US that the RCC is the one true church that to have it vehemently denied by you all now is stunning. Naturally, we questioned this turn around.


That's fine, but we've been told by more than a few other Catholics on this board over the months and years exactly the opposite.

Hear! Hear! This reminds me of a conversation I once had with a Jesuit priest in plain clothes who had been sent, along with a plain clothes nun, to defuse a street preacher who was a former Catholic. I questioned this priest concerning uniquely Catholic dogma, all of which he completely denied. For example, he told me that the Catholic Church does not believe in the perpetual virginity of Mary, does not venerate her more than they do any other Christian, does not believe in Purgatory, does not believe in papal infallibility, and does not believe that the Catholic church is the One, True, Church. If had not introduced himself to me as a Jesuit priest I would not have been interested.

This was my second such encounter, the first being in a public forum where a Jesuit priest from Fordham University spoke.

 

[Rick Otto]

Hear! Hear! This reminds me of a conversation I once had with a Jesuit priest in plain clothes who had been sent, along with a plain clothes nun, to defuse a street preacher who was a former Catholic. I questioned this priest concerning uniquely Catholic dogma, all of which he completely denied. For example, he told me that the Catholic Church does not believe in the perpetual virginity of Mary, does not venerate her more than they do any other Christian, does not believe in Purgatory, does not believe in papal infallibility, and does not believe that the Catholic church is the One, True, Church. If had not introduced himself to me as a Jesuit priest I would not have been interested.

This was my second such encounter, the first being in a public forum where a Jesuit priest from Fordham University spoke.

Wow. He was following the "secret jesuit oath" to the letter.
Here I thought Rivera was just 'Jack Chick style' liar.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Hear! Hear! This reminds me of a conversation I once had with a Jesuit priest in plain clothes who had been sent, along with a plain clothes nun, to defuse a street preacher who was a former Catholic. I questioned this priest concerning uniquely Catholic dogma, all of which he completely denied. For example, he told me that the Catholic Church does not believe in the perpetual virginity of Mary, does not venerate her more than they do any other Christian, does not believe in Purgatory, does not believe in papal infallibility, and does not believe that the Catholic church is the One, True, Church. If had not introduced himself to me as a Jesuit priest I would not have been interested.

This was my second such encounter, the first being in a public forum where a Jesuit priest from Fordham University spoke.

I'd give a Jesuit higher marks for credibility then I'd give your claims.

 

[Rick Otto]

Do not twist Catholic teachings...do not take my words and try to use them against me either...read things in context.

The teachings ARE the twist. Your words condemn you ... in context, in quotations, and in backpedaled redefinitions.

READ MY POST BELOW...Sarcasm get's you nowhere...

Calling the truth sarcasm doesn'tmake it untrue.
Just thrashing about, now.

 

[Tzaousios]

I see. So then, a former drug addict who talks to kids about the dangers of drugs isn't really trying to stop children from making a destructive choice, but is really just trying to justify his quitting drugs?

The drug addict may be a bit of a different story. However, such is the case many times with former Catholics who left it for whatever brand of Protestantism. There is an entire rhetoric of self-justification and legitimization that can be identified quite easily. In fact, it is perpetuated a good deal on GT.

 

[Defensor Christi]

Hear! Hear! This reminds me of a conversation I once had with a Jesuit priest in plain clothes who had been sent, along with a plain clothes nun, to defuse a street preacher who was a former Catholic. I questioned this priest concerning uniquely Catholic dogma, all of which he completely denied. For example, he told me that the Catholic Church does not believe in the perpetual virginity of Mary, does not venerate her more than they do any other Christian, does not believe in Purgatory, does not believe in papal infallibility, and does not believe that the Catholic church is the One, True, Church. If had not introduced himself to me as a Jesuit priest I would not have been interested.

This was my second such encounter, the first being in a public forum where a Jesuit priest from Fordham University spoke.

Pfffftttt....is this what this forum is all about? Thanks for making my coffee shoot out of my nose laughing...

 

[Defensor Christi]

The teachings ARE the twist. Your words condemn you ... in context, in quotations, and in backpedaled redefinitions.

Calling the truth sarcasm doesn'tmake it untrue.
Just thrashing about, now.

Well let me thrash about somemore...where or where is this crushing truth? I see circular logic, text and works taken out of context and Jack Chick quoted...did I miss it?

 

[Rick Otto]

Well let me thrash about somemore...where or where is this crushing truth? I see circular logic, text and works taken out of context and Jack Chick quoted...did I miss it?

You've swept it quite nicely under the rug of invincibly ignorant loyalty.

 

[Defensor Christi]

You've swept it quite nicely under the rug of invincibly ignorant loyalty.

Oh, I get it...you dont have an educated response so you play the "nanny-nanny boo boo" defense...nice!

 

[Rick Otto]

Oh, I get it...you dont have an educated response so you play the "nanny-nanny boo boo" defense...nice!

You're playing what you're calling because you know your question was fully answered & your backpedaling & redefinitions were obvious.

Now here you are being the "bully' by "hollering bully"'.
You are accusing me of what you are guilty of.
It's just a not-so-sophisticated form of polemical trolling.

 

[Defensor Christi]

You're playing what you're calling because you know your question was fully answered & your backpedaling & redefinitions were obvious.

Now here you are being the "bully' by "hollering bully"'.
You are accusing me of what you are guilty of.
It's just a not-so-sophisticated form of polemical trolling.

Please, kind sir, show me my error and I will attempt to give light...

 

[Tzaousios]

Please, kind sir, show me my error and I will attempt to give light...

Probably being Catholic.

 

[Defensor Christi]

Probably being Catholic.

That is my sneaking suspicion...

 

[Rick Otto]

Please, kind sir, show me my error and I will attempt to give light...

Now you indulge the sarcasm you decried.
Satisfy yourself on your buddy's snark bait.

 

[Standing Up]

.

 

[Standing Up]

READ MY POST BELOW...Sarcasm get's you nowhere...

I wasn't being sarcastic. But I understand why you took it that way. You posted-

819 "Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth"273 are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: "the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements."274 Christ's Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him,275 and are in themselves calls to "Catholic unity."276


There's the same thing. IOW, many elements are found outside RC, but to find them all, you need the one, true church, who call themselves RC.

You folks should try to figure out what you're trying to say, without projecting sarcasm on others.

 

[Tzaousios]

Now you indulge the sarcasm you decried.
Satisfy yourself on your buddy's snark bait.

Does this mean also that you satisfy yourself on something comparable that Standing Up offers?

 

[Defensor Christi]

There's the same thing. IOW, many elements are found outside RC, but to find them all, you need the one, true church, who call themselves RC.

You folks should try to figure out what you're trying to say, without projecting sarcasm on others.

To find the FULLNESS of Truth, yes, you must be in union with the Church.

The problem I have is in your usage of the term "ONE TRUE CHURCH"...which IOW, means that EVERY OTHER Church is False and this is the only holder of the truth...

I agree (as does the Church) with the former and disagree (as does the Church) with the later...

 

[Defensor Christi]

Now you indulge the sarcasm you decried.

Guilty...I am only human...

Satisfy yourself on your buddy's snark bait.

Snark bait or not...It was NOT off the mark? Or am I again, in error?

 

[Standing Up]

To find the FULLNESS of Truth, yes, you must be in union with the Church.

The problem I have is in your usage of the term "ONE TRUE CHURCH"...which IOW, means that EVERY OTHER Church is False and this is the only holder of the truth?

I agree (as does the Church) with the former and disagree (as does the Church) with the later...

So, now you're saying, for example, the 1950 de fide marian dogma really doesn't matter, as far as true and false is concerned. Rather, you think that 1950 reflects the fulness of faith? To what end? Who cares?

Anyway, glad we agree RC is not the one true church. Spread the news. May we say that the fulness is found in His Body?