Purgatory

[IowaLutheran]

As I am trying to figure out my call to some sort of ministry, I am reading various books on discernment. Right now, I am reading "The Collar" by Jonathan Englert, which is an excellent book about a year inside a Catholic seminary. There was a comment in the book about purgatory that was interesting.

A seminarian was visiting an elderly nun to get some experience visiting people, and the nun was talking about the poor souls in purgatory. The book then states:

"Heiser (the seminarian) never told Sister Antonice that the Church's concept of purgatory had changed from time served in a particular place to a purification process that may happen at the instant of death. He didn't want to upset her theology."

Is this accurate? If so, tell me more about this change!
If its not accurate, why not?

Thanks!

 

[FullyMT]

As I am trying to figure out my call to some sort of ministry, I am reading various books on discernment. Right now, I am reading "The Collar" by Jonathan Englert, which is an excellent book about a year inside a Catholic seminary. There was a comment in the book about purgatory that was interesting.

A seminarian was visiting an elderly nun to get some experience visiting people, and the nun was talking about the poor souls in purgatory. The book then states:

"Heiser (the seminarian) never told Sister Antonice that the Church's concept of purgatory had changed from time served in a particular place to a purification process that may happen at the instant of death. He didn't want to upset her theology."

Is this accurate? If so, tell me more about this change!
If its not accurate, why not?

Thanks!

Popular theology has changed a bit about purgatory. However, no official stance really exists outside of that there is purgation of the soul after death if there is a "stain" on a soul judged to be "worthy" of the eternal life with the Beatific Vision.

 

[Rhamiel]

the operative part of the sentance is "that may" we do not know and we do not pretend to know, I personaly believe that it purgatory is in at least the time catagory and probably the place catagory as well. But this is personal oppinion and any Catholic can say whatever they want about it as long as the recognize purgatory is real. Might be in time, might be out of time, might be a place, might be a state of being.
Another popular theory is New Jersey is purgatory, just kidding

 

[Davidnic]

To my knowledge there was never an offical teaching about Purgatory and time. Measuring time there is beyond our ability. The days and such assoicated with an indulgence was never about "time off of purgatory" so to speak. But the time off of the length of penance on earth. And although an indulgence can aid in the purification in purgatory it can't really be fit into the human concept of time. Although some have tried.

This was often confused by Catholics and non-Catholics alike. So I think the seminarian has it wrong here. It is not that the belief changed, but that what the sister was thinking of was that purgatory was a place where time was an issue. This is a misconception some Catholics have.

In that way, purification can be an instant or an longer. But we can not define purgatory by our understanding of time. And the Church never has tried to offically do so, although some members mught have viewed it that way.

Maybe that's what he meant.

One of my nuns once told us a parable to explain the futile nature of affixing time to purgatory.

She said there were two priests and as they got older they promised each other that if the other died the one left alive would pray for the one who died.

One died and after what seemed to him like years in purgatory he was given permission to go and see his friend, since not one prayer had been offered. His fried was shocked because he did not even know his friend was dead, since the priest had died in the night and morning had not yet come.

Sister stressed that this story was not meant to be scary since it could easily have been the other way around. That the priest who died could have been shocked by hundreds of prayers for him in but an hour and then be shown that years had passed on earth.

But she wanted to show us that we can not apply human measures of time to purgatory.

Prayers she said are not bound by time and space but fly on the boundless love of God.

 

[IowaLutheran]

Very interesting - thanks for the replies!

 

[QuantaCura]

I like thinking about it in terms of time. It makes sense to me. Plus, that view is consistent with all the mystics and apparitions which have seen or spoke of Purgatory.

As for the dogmatic teaching on purgatory, their isn't a whole lot of detail given besides that there is a final purification for those in need and the prayers and penances of the faithful help the process. The reason indulgences used to be listed in terms of days is because they often corresponded to days of penance (in the early centuries penances were really long and intense--not a just a few prayers like it later developed.).

Here are the only dogmatic definitions concerning final purification that I am aware of off the top of my head:

Pope Benedict XII, Benedictus Deus (this short constitution defines almost everything we know regarding the afterlife)

Council of Florence, Laetentur Caeli: Also, if truly penitent people die in the love of God before they have made satisfaction for acts and omissions by worthy fruits of repentance, their souls are cleansed after death by cleansing pains; and the suffrages of the living faithful avail them in giving relief from such pains, that is, sacrifices of masses, prayers, almsgiving and other acts of devotion which have been customarily performed by some of the faithful for others of the faithful in accordance with the church's ordinances.

Council of Trent, Decree Concerning Purgatory: Whereas the Catholic Church, instructed by the Holy Ghost, has, from the sacred writings and the ancient tradition of the Fathers, taught, in sacred councils, and very recently in this oecumenical Synod, that there is a Purgatory, and that the souls there detained are helped by the suffrages of the faithful, but principally by the acceptable sacrifice of the altar; the holy Synod enjoins on bishops that they diligently endeavour that the sound doctrine concerning Purgatory, transmitted by the holy Fathers and sacred councils, be believed, maintained, taught, and every where proclaimed by the faithful of Christ.