Public beheadings in Saudi Arabia

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TwinCrier said:
Fine, for the "wrongly executed" I find it terrible that they were unable to prevent themselves from being proven guilty...

*shiver me timbers*

Icicles just appeared on my monitor.:(

I am terribly saddened by the...apathy shown for those who have been wrongly murdered.


Is it really worth murdering innocent people to have a law that does not deter crime?
 
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Ninja Turtles

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Neverstop said:
*shiver me timbers*

Icicles just appeared on my monitor.:(

I am terribly saddened by the...apathy shown for those who have been wrongly murdered.


Is it really worth murdering innocent people to have a law that does not deter crime?
Basically it seems like the statement is, it's your fault for not finding the hidden evidence that would prove your innocence. It's your fault if you didn't show your innocence.

What I really want to know is that should the system stay as it kills innocent people. The answer seems yes because you should be able to prove your innocence. :doh:

People like Jesse Tafero were sentenced to death because of evidence that was buried. :doh:

My other question is like your also, how is the death penalty a deterrant. Post #187...
 
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Ninja Turtles said:
I know, just look at post #187 and look at the countries that don't have the death penalty around the world. What are their murder rates? ;) :D
There are no countries on post 187. Just states.

And those States would have the lowest murder rates regardless of whether or not those states had the death penalty. I am sure there is alot of drug related violence in Alaska..and those farmers out in Wisconsin, they get rowdy.. ;)
Can say whether or not the murder rates in the five highest states would be higher if it were not for the DP?

And the death penalty would be a deterrent if the perpetrator was caught 100% of the time unless the person wanted to die.. The problem is everyone thinks they are going to get away with the crime and hence not be subject to the penalty.
 
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Ninja Turtles

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jamesrwright3 said:
And the same thing could be said, certain countries will have lower murder rates regardless of their stance on the DP.
But when one makes the claim that the death penalty is a deterrent, you should see lower murder rates because criminals would kill without "fear."
 
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nyj

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TwinCrier said:
Fine, for the "wrongly executed" I find it terrible that they were unable to prevent themselves from being proven guilty when it seemed to be done so easily by others after their death, including some who were in diapers at the time the crime took place.

There is no compassion in this comment. None whatsoever!

[font=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]"Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?" And he said to him, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. And a second is like it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself."

For the record, Jesus is not referring to the people who live next door to you either.
[/font]
 
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Ninja Turtles

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nyj said:
There is no compassion in this comment. None whatsoever!

[font=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]"Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?" And he said to him, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. And a second is like it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself."

For the record, Jesus is not referring to the people who live next door to you either.
[/font]
I never can understand how people can be so gung-ho about the death penalty when these are considered the greatest commandments. :confused:
 
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TwinCrier

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Then why judge anyone guilty of any crime? How can you possibly say it's not a deterrant when you have no ability to so how many murders were prevented?
Too bad you can't have half as much compassion for those who are murdered without benefit of tiral lawyers and appeals, you know, the victims.
Anything to save a killer.
 
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praying

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ago said:
I agree too, the public display of beheaded human beings to elicit terror sounds horrible.


It doesn't sound horrible it IS horrible.

Though, who are we to judge them, their culture, and their history?

we aren't juding thre culture or history, we are saying it is wrong to kill people and very wrong to use that killing to strike fear in others.
 
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Ninja Turtles

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TwinCrier said:
Then why judge anyone guilty of any crime? How can you possibly say it's not a deterrant when you have no ability to so how many murders were prevented?
Too bad you can't have half as much compassion for those who are murdered without benefit of tiral lawyers and appeals, you know, the victims.
Anything to save a killer.
Strawman.

If the death penalty as it's carried out is flawed and people call for its abolition, then they want killers to go free.

Your lack of statistics to show deterrence speaks volumes.

And again, you fail to respond to those wrongfully executed.
 
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Nathan Poe

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TwinCrier said:
Then why judge anyone guilty of any crime? How can you possibly say it's not a deterrant when you have no ability to so how many murders were prevented?
Too bad you can't have half as much compassion for those who are murdered without benefit of tiral lawyers and appeals, you know, the victims.
Anything to save a killer.


So is it too much to ask that we insure that the right person be executed for the crime?

Is erring on the side of life too much to ask?
 
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TwinCrier

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Ninja Turtles said:
Strawman.

If the death penalty as it's carried out is flawed and people call for its abolition, then they want killers to go free.

Your lack of statistics to show deterrence speaks volumes.

And again, you fail to respond to those wrongfully executed.
Again, how can I show it's a deterrant? Isn't everyone who doesn't commit murder deterred by something, even if it's just their lack of oppourtunity? You know how many people are deterred from committing murder? EVERYONE who doesn't do it. If someone is truly not deterred by the thought of facing execution, then wouldn't every murderer just simply turn themselves in?
I'm not saying those of you who are against justified execution of murderous felons wants them all to go free, I'm saying that is what will and does happen. Sentences of "Life without parole" are given parole all the time. Why even hold parole hearing except that they intend to give them parole evenutally once they figure people have forgotten. Why allow those given "life sentences" to apply for early release? I can understand why the murderers want commuted sentences, what I don't understand is why a potential future victim such as yourself would want to give killers such oppourtunity.


Nathan Poe said:
So is it too much to ask that we insure that the right person be executed for the crime?

Is erring on the side of life too much to ask?
I have no problem with executing the right people. Innocent until proven guilty is great. It's the idea that once they are proven guilty that we should continue to treat them as innocent that I have issue with.
 
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starchild

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TwinCrier said:
Again, how can I show it's a deterrant? Isn't everyone who doesn't commit murder deterred by something, even if it's just their lack of oppourtunity? You know how many people are deterred from committing murder? EVERYONE who doesn't do it. If someone is truly not deterred by the thought of facing execution, then wouldn't every murderer just simply turn themselves in?
As someone who cried when I once accidentally killed a quail, I can say with some conviction that my deterrents are internal.

I have never, ever thought, "My, I'd like to kill that person, but I'd better not, or I may be killed, myself."

Fortunately, I believe that at least 49% of the voting population subscrines to that internal deterrent... heh. Actually, I believe the same of darned near everyone.
 
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justaman

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TwinCrier said:
Again, how can I show it's a deterrant?
Simplicity itself. Find the statistics of states that allow the death penality vs the states that don't and then compare crime rates.

You will be surprised to find that those with the death penalty do not have more quickly declining crime rates than those without.

You know how many people are deterred from committing murder? EVERYONE who doesn't do it.
So you'd commit murder if there weren't deterrents? I know I wouldn't. Compassion and all that ;)

Sentences of "Life without parole" are given parole all the time.
Source for this? Figures?

I have no problem with executing the right people. Innocent until proven guilty is great. It's the idea that once they are proven guilty that we should continue to treat them as innocent that I have issue with.
So people can't redeem themselves? People don't change? Ever?
 
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