Psychic Abilities

[HisSparkPlug]

There are only 2 camps. God's camp, and the enemy's camp.

Someone in a post a few back stated it's a far stretch to say there are only 2 sides to this battle.. and 2 types of spirits (light or darkness)
I totally disagree and say it's a far stretch to say it is not so.

He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad - Matt 12:30 kjv

Can someone show me scripture which indicates there are spirits in existence which neither serve God nor the enemy?
Where do beliefs like this come from?

 

[Tobias]

I agree Yahu!
Why would we rename the gifts of God and call it being 'psychic' or 'clairvoyant' etc? Those are worldly terms used to describe those who get their knowledge from the dark side.

Your entire post here is spot on.

At this link: http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/LatentPowerofSoul.pdf are 65 pages of a book by Watchman Nee in which he explains the dangers of functioning in psychic power and soul power.. I recommend it.

Ah! I see you found one of the other threads I was talking about.


I find it useful to use "New Age" terminology in this case. I can hear into the spirit realm. They call this "claraudient", which is a sub-set of clairvoyance specifically meaning the ability to hear in the spirit.


Because I can "hear", I can hear God's voice as well as Satan or any other spirit. But there are only set times when I use it to operate in the Gifts of the Spirit. I can hear God speak to me a word of prophecy. I can also hear a word of wisdom or a word of knowledge.

This ability to hear does not turn off when the Holy Spirit is not using me for one of the gifts. In fact, operating in the gifts of the Spirit is a privilege! I also don't hear God talking to me 24-7. He doesn't usually speak, and the gifts of the Spirit often take holiness and preparation before He activates them.

So "hearing" is simply my ability to perceive. Kind of like how SETI is an organization set up to receive extra terrestrial signals from space. However if there are no signals, SETI's ears are on but nobody is talking! Or maybe think of it like a phone. The fact that I have a phone on my desk means that the president of the USA has the ability to call me at any time. But for some reason he doesn't!

I find it useful to differentiate between having the skill to hear God's voice, and His willingness to talk. Many people have the ability to do things for God, but He doesn't specifically inspire them to do anything. Musicians that can play beautifully, artists that can inspire with their drawings. But separate from the human talent, is God's choosing to work with someone.

We live in an age where preachers tell us lies, and claim that God has done something when He has not. The skilled musicians play their worship set, and then the pastor claims that God was present anointing them while they played. But often this is not the case, and people are left feeling inadequate to ever sense the Holy Spirit for themselves. Because the Pastor, in an effort to elevate his own position, gives a false report concerning when and where the Holy Spirit is moving. Sometimes it's because a competing denomination is having revival and he is not, or he wants to claim revival is happening when in fact it is not. So those with sensitive spirits are left confused, because the trust their pastors.


Within this environment, I think it is helpful to let those who are spiritually sensitive know that there is a difference between being able to perceive stuff, and the times when the Holy Spirit actually uses them with a gift. Otherwise they start to think of themselves as super spiritual, simply because they can "hear" or "see" things that other Christians can't. If we just call everything a "gift of the Spirit", then there is no separating between natural sensitivity and acts of God.


IMO.

 

[Tenebrae]

How did you know?

You're predictable?

 

[Matjohluk]

Are they of God, of the Devil, or could they be natural born abilities of Man?


I guess it all depends upon what we define as psychic abilities. Obviously someone who is in the business and takes on the identity of "A Psychic" is using enhanced abilities fueled by spirits that are not in league with God. But there is a big difference between being psychic and being A Psychic. Just like there is a difference between prophesying and being A Prophet.

There are also quite a number of psychic abilities, which are not necessarily all relate so perhaps the rules don't apply the same to all situations. But just for starters (especially for those who are unfamiliar and don't yet understand what I'm talking about), the major psychic abilities coincide with the 5 physical senses. Those who can see things in the spirit realm are called "clairvoyant." Those who hear things in the spirit realm are "clairaudient". Clairsentience is feeling, and there are others for smelling and tasting. "Clair" meaning "clear", and "voyant" meaning "vision", "audient" meaning "auditory"... I think it's origins are in the French language. There are dozens of others, namely precognizance and claircognizance (knowing the future and knowing facts for no explainable reason), but I think thats a pretty good foundation to get this discussion started.


Personally I think the major psychic abilities are similar to artistic abilities and are natural to Man. Not everybody has them in equal amounts. Artists can relate to musicians and poets, but each of the fine arts are their own thing, and either you have what it takes to make it in those fields or you don't. Same goes for the senses that allow us to perceive things in the spirit realm. On some level they are each an ability and a form of art, and most people that have them operate in more than one, but each is unique in it's own right.

What usually happens though is we are inspired by unseen forces whether we want to or not. Many artists look for their muse, which often times is a spirit that enhances their natural abilities and makes their work stand out. People with psychic abilities do the same. In Church we are taught to listen for the voice of God, so those who see, hear, feel, smell, sense the future, or just know stuff can be influenced accordingly by the Kingdom of Heaven. Those who want to use their abilities for the other side (often without realizing it), might tune their senses in to spirits of the dead, spirit guides, or pagan gods. Go to a church of Spiritualism and they will teach you how to become a medium, which essentially is being a prophet for the dead.

As a musician I have learned how to yield my talent to the HS and allow inspired worship to flow through me. As someone who's clairaudient I have learned how to tune into the voice of my God and be obedient to Him, and how to speak on His behalf to other people. But I have also learned how to hear quite a number of other spirits, some appear to be rather neutral and some are clearly not. But just like when I'm playing guitar, the talent is my own unless I am inspired by other forces.

I guess where I'm making the distinction is the difference between the ability to HEAR God, and yielding to Him. Many hear His call, but few answer. Or on the flip side, hearing spirits and yielding to them instead. For those with the natural born ability, the hearing part happens regardless. But just like everything else in life, we choose whether we submit our talents to God or not.

Interesting mindset Tobias, but before we start to address this, you need to know that you are a musician, and I guess you may have forgotten that Satan was the praise and worship leader in heaven and that he was a “master musician”. Now on that note, it could be the reason why so many praise and worship teams sound and sing like satanic rock groups, with a beat that isn’t holy, but a beat of Satan, and act like rock stars and not disciples of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Any natural music abilities can be either used by God or the “god of the planet”. This is another reason why there is much control in these groups by the power of darkness when we see so much bickering and fighting.

I see most of the praise and worship group as a group of rock and rollers on the stage rocking to the audience (the congregation) and not to our Lord Jesus Christ. I’ve always believed that the group should located at the rear of the hall and not up front were they can become an idol, yes, idolatry is ripe in many big Mega churches, particularly when you see the guitars are full replicas of “Satan’s horns” and of a Satanic Rock Group. Yes, many fob it off as if the horns are a handle, but the shape and representation of the guitar is “SATANIC” and that is where all praise and worship groups go off the rails. If you call an orange a lemon, well right or wrong, the orange is still an orange and not a lemon. The guitars of a praise and worship group use guitars, not satanic guitars.

A physic can be a clairvoyant and whichever one will feed you a form of spiritual food and when eaten it will kill your true “spirit”! A physic or clairvoyant are frauds as they make things up as they read the body-language responses of the people around them, who are probably demonised as well, or they are being fed information from demons around them. And when they go into solo of musical gyrations and loud music like a rock concert, then you know who is in control.

A prophet of God is 100% accuracy, because the information about future events is coming from God Himself, and He is powerful enough to overcome the limitation of speaking through a fallen, fallible human being who listens to the “unclean spirits” of the powers of darkness. We need to realise when a person dies, a good person or an evil person, their spirit or spirits living in their “soul” and their “spirit” of their “body” departs their dwelling place and goes to “dry places seeking rest” (Luke 11:24-26). But, more times than anything they will go into another person or animal and then to dry places if they couldn’t find another body to live in.

When they can’t find a person, they will roam around like a roaring lion seeking whom they can devour (come into to dwell), any weakness of the flesh of a Christian will open a doorway and allow that spirit or spirits into their “soul”, their “house”, and demonising the person. It is a dangerous thing to play around with the occult, and occultic ideas as many can testify that this is how they opened the doors to demon control, oppression and suppression in their lives.

False prophets are basically physics and are fed by familiar, deceiving, oppressing, and suppressing spirits that are still wandering around in “dry places seeking rest”.

I believe that many people who are considered psychics are people who were born with a God-given prophetic gift, and they use this gift as a physic because they don’t know our Lord Jesus Christ or they had rejected Him altogether, and they use their “gift”, for their worldly life. Much given by physics is false and lies that comes from the “father of lies”.

Prophets and psychics may ‘operate’ in some similar ways, but their sources of revelation and interpretation of that revelation come from completely different source, the Truth of God, and the falseness of Satan and his demons.
I’ve seen many so-called gifted children, four to ten years of age, sing operetta, in a mature male’s or female’s voice, and the church claims this phenomena as a “Gift of God”. I remember seeing a female Christian singer sing in a mature, male voice. The children or people that all of a sudden acquire an unnatural gift have been dwelled by roaming spirit. Possibly they may have been involved in an occultic gathering more so than a Godly gathering of our Lord Jesus Christ. Animals do things that are impossible, again the animal is indwelled by a demon (spirit). I see it and discern it often; when friends send me YouTube videos that flow around the Christian circles of anointed Christian children singing like angels when it’s impossible at their age. With my discerning eyes I could see the demons in them.

When you are told to listen for God’s voice, but at the same time the little “g” will be floating around within the ungodly people in the church who are pretending to be Godly, and have seen in large mega churches. As some praise and worship people call out “look at me, look at me”, and the snake of pride whelms up from inside them, starts gyrating, as they worm their way around the stage.

 

[Matjohluk]

Ah! I see you found one of the other threads I was talking about.


I find it useful to use "New Age" terminology in this case. I can hear into the spirit realm. They call this "claraudient", which is a sub-set of clairvoyance specifically meaning the ability to hear in the spirit.


Because I can "hear", I can hear God's voice as well as Satan or any other spirit. But there are only set times when I use it to operate in the Gifts of the Spirit. I can hear God speak to me a word of prophecy. I can also hear a word of wisdom or a word of knowledge.

This ability to hear does not turn off when the Holy Spirit is not using me for one of the gifts. In fact, operating in the gifts of the Spirit is a privilege! I also don't hear God talking to me 24-7. He doesn't usually speak, and the gifts of the Spirit often take holiness and preparation before He activates them.

So "hearing" is simply my ability to perceive. Kind of like how SETI is an organization set up to receive extra terrestrial signals from space. However if there are no signals, SETI's ears are on but nobody is talking! Or maybe think of it like a phone. The fact that I have a phone on my desk means that the president of the USA has the ability to call me at any time. But for some reason he doesn't!

I find it useful to differentiate between having the skill to hear God's voice, and His willingness to talk. Many people have the ability to do things for God, but He doesn't specifically inspire them to do anything. Musicians that can play beautifully, artists that can inspire with their drawings. But separate from the human talent, is God's choosing to work with someone.

We live in an age where preachers tell us lies, and claim that God has done something when He has not. The skilled musicians play their worship set, and then the pastor claims that God was present anointing them while they played. But often this is not the case, and people are left feeling inadequate to ever sense the Holy Spirit for themselves. Because the Pastor, in an effort to elevate his own position, gives a false report concerning when and where the Holy Spirit is moving. Sometimes it's because a competing denomination is having revival and he is not, or he wants to claim revival is happening when in fact it is not. So those with sensitive spirits are left confused, because the trust their pastors.


Within this environment, I think it is helpful to let those who are spiritually sensitive know that there is a difference between being able to perceive stuff, and the times when the Holy Spirit actually uses them with a gift. Otherwise they start to think of themselves as super spiritual, simply because they can "hear" or "see" things that other Christians can't. If we just call everything a "gift of the Spirit", then there is no separating between natural sensitivity and acts of God.


IMO.

Your lack of understanding and knowledge of the earthly and heavenly things of the natural and supernatural realms are very, very obvious. You are trying to explain at a level that most are not prepared to barter with. The Gifts you are talking about are prophecy and discerning of spirits. And you really do need to understand how the supernatural realm of spirits (clean or unclean) work within the earthly and heavenly things, which isn't covered in the canonised Bible.

 

[Tobias]

Your lack of understanding and knowledge of the earthly and heavenly things of the natural and supernatural realms are very, very obvious. You are trying to explain at a level that most are not prepared to barter with. The Gifts you are talking about are prophecy and discerning of spirits. And you really do need to understand how the supernatural realm of spirits (clean or unclean) work within the earthly and heavenly things, which isn't covered in the canonised Bible.

Wow, don't hold anything back there Mat! We're friends, you can feel free to tell me exactly what you think of me without beating around the bush!



So, you think my obvious lack of understanding of everything in heaven and on Earth, comes from me not believing the Book of Enoch -- like you do, right?



Personally I don't think slapping the identity of "Jewish" on a book of the occult makes it right. Nor does that work with "Christian" in the case of many others. Idolatry does happen in church all the time, I can agree with that. Though perhaps not with the "evils of Rock-n-Roll".

I guess I'm more open to associate with the Pagan community, having seen most of these problems in church already. I mean, if we can overcome idolatry and occult teaching in church, and still grow in grace and in love with our Lord Jesus Christ... then what danger does actual paganism hold? Where they don't dress it up in Christianity, and it is blatantly advertized as ungodly?

 

[1livelystone]

Tobias - I don't need to discourse on it, I know this and am repetitive because the truth doesn't change. We don't "tune our senses", we listen to the Holy Spirit and Him alone.

I do not know about everything going on between you and the OP but this statement of yours is about as wrong as wrong can be unless think you've got a whole lot more on the ball than the apostle Paul did?

In Romans 7:23 when Paul spoke about the “law of sin” living within him that caused him to do what he did not want to do and kept him from doing what he wanted to do is the same messenger of Satan as the thorn in his flesh he said was keeping him humble in 2nd Corinthians 12:8. despite his many revelations from God

The unclean spirit man that is unclean because of the principality of sin (as a noun and not just a verb) is still living in every Christian including those baptized with the Holy Spirit as well as those who just think they have been baptized with the Holy Spirit.

When Satan led Jesus up on the mountain to tempt him and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world under his dominion because they had been given to him were not physical kingdoms ( there is no mountaintop where all the kingdoms of the world ruled by Satan can be viewed from) but were spiritual kingdoms consisting of the spirit and soul of every unregenerate person on earth.

Whether you realize it or not does not make any difference but the law of the seed was already in effect before Adam sinned. Consequently, the seed coming from Adam by law had to reflect his sinful fallen condition that has been passed onto every human being since then through the unclean spirit of man (Adam in us) and is what makes up the kingdoms given to Satan.

For that matter every false doctrine taught in every church in the world has come from Satan who preaches his doctrines from the pulpits every sunday in most churches via the tail of the Dragon who are the prophets who teach lies.

Do you think every one of your doctrines is in line with the teachings of God? Because if you do there is absolutely no reason for God not to be working the same miracles through you He worked through the apostles. All false doctrines are from the father of lies, and even if there is one church somewhere who has all of their doctrines right would mean every other one of the hundreds of thousands have at least one teaching from Satan as part of their core beliefs

Every temptation put before us is from the father of lies and every time a Christian sins is because Satan through his “law of sin” still living within the unclean spirit of man still found in every Christian has successfully influenced the Christian to go against God's will.

Through the law of faith we have access unto God but through the law of sin Satan still has access to us, and is why we do not see the real miracles in the church that we should be seeing

God does not change (other than extending mercy in place of judgment) and it is God who does the miracles. Therefore, when the church returns to following after God and worshipping in spirit and in truth, the church today will do the same miracles the apostles did

 

[PersephonesTear]

I’ve seen many so-called gifted children, four to ten years of age, sing operetta, in a mature male’s or female’s voice, and the church claims this phenomena as a “Gift of God”. I remember seeing a female Christian singer sing in a mature, male voice. The children or people that all of a sudden acquire an unnatural gift have been dwelled by roaming spirit. Possibly they may have been involved in an occultic gathering more so than a Godly gathering of our Lord Jesus Christ. Animals do things that are impossible, again the animal is indwelled by a demon (spirit). I see it and discern it often; when friends send me YouTube videos that flow around the Christian circles of anointed Christian children singing like angels when it’s impossible at their age. With my discerning eyes I could see the demons in them.

I... um... am I misunderstanding you?

Are you claiming that a child who is singing praises to God, in a beautifully angelic voice, is being indwelt by demons?

I'm pretty sure it is impossible for a demon to sing praises to God, with or without a human vehicle...

Or was this just worded oddly?

 

[Deborah23]

I don't mean to reply to Jake, I was just thankful to Tobias that a Christian would have something other than saying that all psychic abilities come from the devil or are witchcraft. I've read just about every entry and I know personally that when a Christian responds to you telling you that what you experience is from the devil, they don't seem to understand that you can't turn it off. I've prayed over and over that God would take these abilities away from me if they were evil. I know in my heart that I am a Christian, that I'm not deceived into believing I'm a Christian when I'm not. I've been accused of this by many, even a Pastor. This was especially upsetting to me because of the respect I had for this Pastor and the fact that I'm Bipolar and I know my mind plays tricks on me. I know my mind though and I'm probably a better judge of reality than most people without a mental illness. Yes, I've even been told that I can't be Christian and have a mental illness.

I've always been able to sense spirits, I can feel their presence, emotions, and get a vague sense of what they want. They can make themselves heard sometimes but I don't believe I have the ability to hear because mostly I don't. If they communicate I don't hear with my ears or even in my head, their thoughts pop into my head like they are my own thoughts but yet I know they are not. I can see spirits mostly only as white, grey or black shadows. I have seen things more clearly like a film being projected on the wall in full color but it's rare. I'm and empathy . I've always been interested in psychology and I know I have walked away from a person carrying their emotions with me. At first I couldn't understand why I felt the emotion and my mind would want to make up a reason for having the emotion.

I get myself into so many supernatural situations that I can barely cope with them all. Seeing the ghost of my children's grandfather was the most upsetting, even though I've encountered 2 demons before. (You cannot get rid of a demon without calling on Jesus or the Holy Spirit rescuing you. In both encounters I believe the Holy Spirit rescued me because I froze. I've only encountered demons alone by myself and my own welfare was not on my mind, I was infinitly distracted by their hatred which felt like my own emotion, I wanted their blood, to rip them apart.) The ghost of grandpa upset me because Lutherans do not believe in ghosts. I was upset the day the family took him off life support he was angry because he did not immediately go to heaven. I felt him (his presence at the wake, laying over his body. He was happy but I was upset because he wasn't in heaven and he had been a Christian (as far as I knew) all his life. (I turned my back on God in my late teens till I turned 31.) I was upset because a Christian and part of my family, was not in heaven and once he was in the ground, would I ever know if he went to heaven a little slower than most. I went to my church and could get no peace of mind and in the process told people that I could sense and see spirits. Now I have the Pastor keeping a close watch on me.

I know that the Bible says that we only get as much of a trial as we can manage, but in my case, I'm not sure. I don't think I can discern spirits other than by observing what they do and their emotions. However, I seem to always guess right. These abilities are so unnatural to me because I worked so hard in my life to be rational, thinking, scientific even. When you're Bipolar this makes sense. When you're empathic you run away from feeling because you know others won't understand how strong your emotions are. First you pretend to be rational, practical, and focus on thinking not feeling. Then you finally can't stand to live a lie. I don't know if it's because empaths are sponges and attract spirits to them, but I'm getting to many encounters with spirits.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Are they of God, of the Devil, or could they be natural born abilities of Man?

"he who made the outside also made the inside" and God made everything. Psychic aptitude is just an additional awareness of something that was already built into humans inherently, in the same way the three persons of the trinity are one, so humans have this same ability to be one. The one language of babel most likely used a component of telepathy or empathy like animals use to communicate. Because of the way history panned out, our ability to relate to creation and each other like God does is limited because of the effects of sin's curse. That being said .. when God redeems this it looks way different than when the "sin living in our members" activates it.

Keep in mind that God can redeem anything and put it to good works, and that Jesus did pray before he left earth "Father, may they be one as we are"

 

[ToBeLoved]

I would think about what the Word of God says concerning these things.

2 Chronicles 33:6
“And he burned his sons as an offering in the Valley of the Son of Hinnom, and used fortune-telling and omens and sorcery, and dealt with mediums and with necromancers. He did much evil in the sight of the LORD, provoking him to anger.”
Galatians 5:19-21
“Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife . . . and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God”

Deuteronomy 18:10-12
“There shall not be found among you . . . anyone who practices divination or tells fortunes or interprets omens, or a sorcerer or a charmer or a medium or a necromancer or one who inquires of the dead, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the LORD. And because of these abominations the LORD your God is driving them out before you.”

Whether these things are natural or unnatural to man, God does not approve. He loves us and does not want us involved in these things. He knows what is evil and what is of holiness.

 

[davecn]

I don't mean to reply to Jake, I was just thankful to Tobias that a Christian would have something other than saying that all psychic abilities come from the devil or are witchcraft. I've read just about every entry and I know personally that when a Christian responds to you telling you that what you experience is from the devil, they don't seem to understand that you can't turn it off. I've prayed over and over that God would take these abilities away from me if they were evil. I know in my heart that I am a Christian, that I'm not deceived into believing I'm a Christian when I'm not. I've been accused of this by many, even a Pastor. This was especially upsetting to me because of the respect I had for this Pastor and the fact that I'm Bipolar and I know my mind plays tricks on me. I know my mind though and I'm probably a better judge of reality than most people without a mental illness. Yes, I've even been told that I can't be Christian and have a mental illness.

I've always been able to sense spirits, I can feel their presence, emotions, and get a vague sense of what they want. They can make themselves heard sometimes but I don't believe I have the ability to hear because mostly I don't. If they communicate I don't hear with my ears or even in my head, their thoughts pop into my head like they are my own thoughts but yet I know they are not. I can see spirits mostly only as white, grey or black shadows. I have seen things more clearly like a film being projected on the wall in full color but it's rare. I'm and empathy . I've always been interested in psychology and I know I have walked away from a person carrying their emotions with me. At first I couldn't understand why I felt the emotion and my mind would want to make up a reason for having the emotion.

I get myself into so many supernatural situations that I can barely cope with them all. Seeing the ghost of my children's grandfather was the most upsetting, even though I've encountered 2 demons before. (You cannot get rid of a demon without calling on Jesus or the Holy Spirit rescuing you. In both encounters I believe the Holy Spirit rescued me because I froze. I've only encountered demons alone by myself and my own welfare was not on my mind, I was infinitly distracted by their hatred which felt like my own emotion, I wanted their blood, to rip them apart.) The ghost of grandpa upset me because Lutherans do not believe in ghosts. I was upset the day the family took him off life support he was angry because he did not immediately go to heaven. I felt him (his presence at the wake, laying over his body. He was happy but I was upset because he wasn't in heaven and he had been a Christian (as far as I knew) all his life. (I turned my back on God in my late teens till I turned 31.) I was upset because a Christian and part of my family, was not in heaven and once he was in the ground, would I ever know if he went to heaven a little slower than most. I went to my church and could get no peace of mind and in the process told people that I could sense and see spirits. Now I have the Pastor keeping a close watch on me.

I know that the Bible says that we only get as much of a trial as we can manage, but in my case, I'm not sure. I don't think I can discern spirits other than by observing what they do and their emotions. However, I seem to always guess right. These abilities are so unnatural to me because I worked so hard in my life to be rational, thinking, scientific even. When you're Bipolar this makes sense. When you're empathic you run away from feeling because you know others won't understand how strong your emotions are. First you pretend to be rational, practical, and focus on thinking not feeling. Then you finally can't stand to live a lie. I don't know if it's because empaths are sponges and attract spirits to them, but I'm getting to many encounters with spirits.

Curious..
Being both BiPolar and a Christian,, your post confuses me as to what your position and beliefs are..
Terminology can mess stuff up.. and one can use words to explain experiences that have negative implications and really are NOT what one is truly trying to express...

I dunno how this site posts, but if there isn't my info in a profile to help ground my comments,, please ask and I can verify.
Firstly: Churches / Christians have a real hard time with any Mental Illness.. but that is very familiar.. Stigma is rampant
everywhere..
Secondly: MI is a horrible illness.. not any different than cancer.. MS .. Diabetes EXCEPT that it distorts ones perception and thereby can destroy or prevent a meaningful relationship with Jesus.
BiPolars in particular have often a higher average IQ, and act on it 'manically' at times so get a lot done and further along with it than non BPers... self acceptance is paramount.. but so is analysis of what we believe we perceive .. a trustworthy individual that knows us and can sift through some of our bs is invaluable...
Finally: Judgement is a problem for everyone... and it goes in both directions.. and unless one of the parties is God... neither will be absolutely right .. nor absolutely wrong ..
but you can be really close...
simply use the Word as the measuring stick... to understand it prayer and the Holy Spirit have to be as much of you as breathing.. well more... the Spirit is not going to poof out of existance when we die (of this world ) ..

just a thought

 

[Deborah23]

Curious..
Being both BiPolar and a Christian,, your post confuses me as to what your position and beliefs are..
Terminology can mess stuff up.. and one can use words to explain experiences that have negative implications and really are NOT what one is truly trying to express...

I dunno how this site posts, but if there isn't my info in a profile to help ground my comments,, please ask and I can verify.
Firstly: Churches / Christians have a real hard time with any Mental Illness.. but that is very familiar.. Stigma is rampant
everywhere..
Secondly: MI is a horrible illness.. not any different than cancer.. MS .. Diabetes EXCEPT that it distorts ones perception and thereby can destroy or prevent a meaningful relationship with Jesus.
BiPolars in particular have often a higher average IQ, and act on it 'manically' at times so get a lot done and further along with it than non BPers... self acceptance is paramount.. but so is analysis of what we believe we perceive .. a trustworthy individual that knows us and can sift through some of our bs is invaluable...
Finally: Judgement is a problem for everyone... and it goes in both directions.. and unless one of the parties is God... neither will be absolutely right .. nor absolutely wrong ..
but you can be really close...
simply use the Word as the measuring stick... to understand it prayer and the Holy Spirit have to be as much of you as breathing.. well more... the Spirit is not going to poof out of existance when we die (of this world ) ..

just a thought

 

[Deborah23]

It's difficult to explain something that is complicated. I've been diagnosed as having Bipolar disorder for over 10 years. Many people Christian and not think negatively of this illness. I see a psychiatrist and she does not believe my psychic abilities are hallucinations or tricks of my mind. Other people have witnessed some of my supernatural encounters. One Pastor when hearing that I was mentally ill told me "physician heal thyself". He did not believe Christians could be mentally ill. Neither psychic abilities or mental illness are received warmly within the Christian community.

I am Lutheran and was born into a Catholic family. I was a Catholic as a child, baptized as a child and grew up going to Sunday school where I believed I should do my best to be like Jesus and the Saints. The priest would shout about hell for an hour on Sunday and the teachers would tell us of love and Jesus's grace on Monday. It seemed as though it was impossible to go to heaven unless you were a nun or Saint. When I got older, I knew that I couldn't live a normal life and have enough good deeds to make it to heaven so I studied philosophy starting in the summer of my junior year.t

A friend took me to a revival where I stood up first. I thought I was just responding to my emotions so I never thought much of it. Later when I could not existentially be myself, I had a unvoluntary out of the body experience. I thought I was dying. The Holy Spirit told me much, all very Biblical. Most importantly it told me that I could escape my demons holding me hostage out of the body by telling them that "by the power and authority of Jesus Christ" I could command them to leave and never come back. I did and found myself back in my body. I forgot about what happened to me for 4 months and when I remembered I knew I could not deny my faith in God the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit three in one God. I went to the Lutheran Church where I have remained despite being told by my favorite Pastor that I wasn't truly a believer. I have a very strong faith because I overcame that Pastors criticism and I know I can Never doubt what the Holy Spirit has done for me. I cannot doubt my out of body experience because of the presence of the Holy Spirit. I believe that our salvation comes only from Jesus Christ our Lord. I believe in the new covenant of the blood of Jesus, who died for the forgiveness of our sins.

If IM does not mean mental illness ( I get a little confused with all the abbreviations used in these posts because I'm 53 and don't text much) then I don't know what it is. I know what MS is and I've been tested for it and told I do not have it nor do I have Parkinsons. I have diabetes but have good control of my blood sugar. I only take lithium for my bipolar disorder.

I know that in my own house if I experience the supernatural at least my sister who has abilities will know and confirm that something occurs. Dogs we have had react to the experiences we have had in the house. My sister's daughter sometimes will respond to something touching her. I know my mind is not playing tricks on me.

My main concern is that supernatural occurances are wearing me out and I cannot turn to my church (Lutheran) to pray for me or comfort me.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

In the old testament, the prophets were first called Seers, the prophets as the OT progressed gave signs of being like psychics or empaths, it presents the question .. what was the difference between Israel's Prophets and the mediums and witches of surrounding nations? I believe the answer is the Spirit indwelling them.

Now beyond the Old Testament, Jesus indwells us through the Holy Spirit, and it is said that we can partake in the sufferings of Christ, but what sufferings is Paul speaking of? I understand it to mean that Jesus suffers with all of us until time ends and the new world comes into being. There is a concept of "greater works" because we trust in Jesus, and some of those greater works may mimic things that spiritualists in the world do, in the same way the Seers of old mimicked Psychics, Mediums, and Witches .. but surpassed them with the power of the Holy Spirit.

And there inlies the point. The inner reality matters more than mere outer appearances.

 

[Deborah23]

In the old testament, the prophets were first called Seers, the prophets as the OT progressed gave signs of being like psychics or empaths, it presents the question .. what was the difference between Israel's Prophets and the mediums and witches of surrounding nations? I believe the answer is the Spirit indwelling them.

Now beyond the Old Testament, Jesus indwells us through the Holy Spirit, and it is said that we can partake in the sufferings of Christ, but what sufferings is Paul speaking of? I understand it to mean that Jesus suffers with all of us until time ends and the new world comes into being. There is a concept of "greater works" because we trust in Jesus, and some of those greater works may mimic things that spiritualists in the world do, in the same way the Seers of old mimicked Psychics, Mediums, and Witches .. but surpassed them with the power of the Holy Spirit.

And there inlies the point. The inner reality matters more than mere outer appearances.

I'm currently reading the Watchman Nee "Latent Power of the Soul" that Tobias in earlier posts suggested. However the Gospels say that the yoke will be something like easy because we work with Jesus. Maybe it's my age, maybe it's my illnesses, but the load is not light. I still cannot ask for prayer at my church without saying it's for something so abstract from my actual needs. The obvious is going to another church but all Protestant Churches are very much alike. To go to a charismatic church is too difficult because people openly speak in tongues. When this happens I feel the emotions the speaker is speaking but too many speak in tongues at the same time. I get a headache and my middle is pulled so much I feel that if I don't leave I fear I will be pulled out of my body. I haven't been to one of these churches for a long time, maybe I can better deal with it, but I'm not eager to try. Maybe having no place to rest my head is part of it.

 

[Deborah23]

In the old testament, the prophets were first called Seers, the prophets as the OT progressed gave signs of being like psychics or empaths, it presents the question .. what was the difference between Israel's Prophets and the mediums and witches of surrounding nations? I believe the answer is the Spirit indwelling them.

Now beyond the Old Testament, Jesus indwells us through the Holy Spirit, and it is said that we can partake in the sufferings of Christ, but what sufferings is Paul speaking of? I understand it to mean that Jesus suffers with all of us until time ends and the new world comes into being. There is a concept of "greater works" because we trust in Jesus, and some of those greater works may mimic things that spiritualists in the world do, in the same way the Seers of old mimicked Psychics, Mediums, and Witches .. but surpassed them with the power of the Holy Spirit.

And there inlies the point. The inner reality matters more than mere outer appearances.

I'm currently reading the Watchman Nee "Latent Power of the Soul" that Tobias in earlier posts suggested. However the Gospels say that the yoke will be something like easy because we work with Jesus. Maybe it's my age, maybe it's my illnesses, but the load is not light. I still cannot ask for prayer at my church without saying it's for something so abstract from my actual needs. The obvious is going to another church but all Protestant Churches are very much alike. To go to a charismatic church is too difficult because people openly speak in tongues. When this happens I feel the emotions the speaker is speaking but too many speak in tongues at the same time. I get a headache and my middle is pulled so much I feel that if I don't leave I fear I will be pulled out of my body. I haven't been to one of these churches for a long time, maybe I can better deal with it, but I'm not eager to try. Maybe having no place to rest my head is part of it.

 

[Deborah23]

In the old testament, the prophets were first called Seers, the prophets as the OT progressed gave signs of being like psychics or empaths, it presents the question .. what was the difference between Israel's Prophets and the mediums and witches of surrounding nations? I believe the answer is the Spirit indwelling them.

Now beyond the Old Testament, Jesus indwells us through the Holy Spirit, and it is said that we can partake in the sufferings of Christ, but what sufferings is Paul speaking of? I understand it to mean that Jesus suffers with all of us until time ends and the new world comes into being. There is a concept of "greater works" because we trust in Jesus, and some of those greater works may mimic things that spiritualists in the world do, in the same way the Seers of old mimicked Psychics, Mediums, and Witches .. but surpassed them with the power of the Holy Spirit.

And there inlies the point. The inner reality matters more than mere outer appearances.

I'm currently reading the Watchman Nee "Latent Power of the Soul" that Tobias in earlier posts suggested. However the Gospels say that the yoke will be something like easy because we work with Jesus. Maybe it's my age, maybe it's my illnesses, but the load is not light. I still cannot ask for prayer at my church without saying it's for something so abstract from my actual needs. The obvious is going to another church but all Protestant Churches are very much alike. To go to a charismatic church is too difficult because people openly speak in tongues. When this happens I feel the emotions the speaker is speaking but too many speak in tongues at the same time. I get a headache and my middle is pulled so much I feel that if I don't leave, I fear I will be pulled out of my body. I haven't been to one of these churches for a long time, maybe I can better deal with it now, but I'm not eager to try. Maybe having no place to rest my head is part of it.

 

[Deborah23]

In the old testament, the prophets were first called Seers, the prophets as the OT progressed gave signs of being like psychics or empaths, it presents the question .. what was the difference between Israel's Prophets and the mediums and witches of surrounding nations? I believe the answer is the Spirit indwelling them.

Now beyond the Old Testament, Jesus indwells us through the Holy Spirit, and it is said that we can partake in the sufferings of Christ, but what sufferings is Paul speaking of? I understand it to mean that Jesus suffers with all of us until time ends and the new world comes into being. There is a concept of "greater works" because we trust in Jesus, and some of those greater works may mimic things that spiritualists in the world do, in the same way the Seers of old mimicked Psychics, Mediums, and Witches .. but surpassed them with the power of the Holy Spirit.

And there inlies the point. The inner reality matters more than mere outer appearances.

I'm currently reading the Watchman Nee "Latent Power of the Soul" that Tobias in earlier posts suggested. However the Gospels say that the yoke will be something like easy because we work with Jesus. Maybe it's my age, maybe it's my illnesses, but the load is not light. I still cannot ask for prayer at my church without saying it's for something so abstract from my actual needs. The obvious is going to another church but all Protestant Churches are very much alike. To go to a charismatic church is too difficult because people openly speak in tongues. When this happens I feel the emotions the speaker is speaking but too many speak in tongues at the same time. I get a headache and my middle is pulled so much I feel that if I don't leave, I fear I will be pulled out of my body. I haven't been to one of these churches for a long time, maybe I can better deal with it now, but I'm not eager to try. Maybe having no place to rest my head is part of it.

 

[Deborah23]

In the old testament, the prophets were first called Seers, the prophets as the OT progressed gave signs of being like psychics or empaths, it presents the question .. what was the difference between Israel's Prophets and the mediums and witches of surrounding nations? I believe the answer is the Spirit indwelling them.

Now beyond the Old Testament, Jesus indwells us through the Holy Spirit, and it is said that we can partake in the sufferings of Christ, but what sufferings is Paul speaking of? I understand it to mean that Jesus suffers with all of us until time ends and the new world comes into being. There is a concept of "greater works" because we trust in Jesus, and some of those greater works may mimic things that spiritualists in the world do, in the same way the Seers of old mimicked Psychics, Mediums, and Witches .. but surpassed them with the power of the Holy Spirit.

And there inlies the point. The inner reality matters more than mere outer appearances.

I'm currently reading the Watchman Nee "Latent Power of the Soul" that Tobias in earlier posts suggested. However the Gospels say that the yoke will be something like easy because we work with Jesus. Maybe it's my age, maybe it's my illnesses, but the load is not light. I still cannot ask for prayer at my church without saying it's for something so abstract from my actual needs. The obvious is going to another church but all Protestant Churches are very much alike. To go to a charismatic church is too difficult because people openly speak in tongues. When this happens I feel the emotions the speaker is speaking but too many speak in tongues at the same time. I get a headache and my middle is pulled so much I feel that if I don't leave, I fear I will be pulled out of my body. I haven't been to one of these churches for a long time, maybe I can better deal with it now, but I'm not eager to try. Maybe having no place to rest my head is part of it.