Psalms 83: A War Before the Gog-Magog War

[grabsuccess]

Actually, many of us have talked about it off and on for some years, around here and other places.

You might be interested to know that Assur is Iran, in that Psalm, who helps the children of Lot. For that to happen, Jordon has to fall like Egypt has.
Before I discovered the Book of Jasher, I thought Iraq was
assur".

Yes, I respect the apocryphal books much more if they are mentioned by the Canonized Bible. The Book of Jasher was mentioned in the Book of Joshua and 2 Samuel, just like the Book of Enoch has been mentioned in the Book of Jude.

As long as some of the apocryphal books that aren't mentioned in the Holy Bible do not conflict with the Holy Bible, I see no problem using them. There are plenty of Secular sources also that should be read because they help prove to the non-believing world that the Holy Bible is true and accurate.

Of course when they see fulfilled prophecy or archeological discoveries mentioned in Biblical areas that should clue them in.

That's what I love about prophecy and archeology, as well as Biblical History, it keeps your faith fresh and alive just reading and knowing about them. No other religion has more proof supporting its truthfulness than does Christianity along with non-Messianic Jews that don't realize yet the rest of the story (New Testament) is true too. When I say Christianity, I include Judaism; Jews are our brothers since we have been grafted into the same family of God as heirs along with the Jew.

Rickey

 

[NJBeliever]

Hi, NJBeliever.

Great podcasts, I have been listening to you using iTunes and sometimes just from your website. You are a fresh and much needed voice. I can hear a passion come through when it comes to talking/preaching about the Word.

Rickey

Thanks very much! I truly appreciate it! It's all new to me but I praise God for moving me to start it and continuing it if He so wills. God bless.

 

[NJBeliever]

Maybe there are other scriptures that help tell the rest of the story. I do believe that this crafty counsel stage is setting Israel up for an imminent invasion by Israel's so-called neighbors.

Talk is Talk, it sounds like this is not just Talk, but Islamic War Drums being beaten as they are getting ready for a serious War to wipe Israel off the map once and for all.

Rickey

Exactly. And the language use is not speculative. It is factual. The Psalm is making statements, not posing possible scenarios:

2For, lo, thine enemies make a tumult: and they that hate thee have lifted up the head.
3They have taken crafty counsel against thy people, and consulted against thy hidden ones.
4They have said, Come, and let us cut them off from being a nation; that the name of Israel may be no more in remembrance.
5For they have consulted together with one consent: they are confederate against thee:

The Bible is stating this as a certainty. And we know at the time of the writing, these things were not happening. Furthermore, if God was not going to address this situation as described by the Psalm, it would not be in the Bible.

 

[Choose Wisely]

This passage causes a great deal of debate about Gog/Magog and rightly so. But I believe upon close Biblical inspection, the real Gog/Magog and this battle of Rev 20 cannot possibly be the same.

1. Gog/Magog is a confederacy. The nations of Ezekiel 38 are clearly outlined. It is a small confederacy attempting to attack Israel. The Rev 20 battle involves all the nations of the world against Israel.

2. GOD is the Initiator of Gog/Magog. Read Ezekiel 38. God goes out of His way to initiate the Gog/Magog war. He actually says He is going to put hooks in the jaw of Gog?Magog to drag them down to battle. Over and over again, God makes it clear that He is going to influence Gog/Magog to start this conflict. The Rev 20 battle is initiated by SATAN. Satan clearly goes out again to deceive and recruit the world to battle Israel. Meanwhile, in Ezekiel 38, Satan is never mentioned once.

3. Spiritual Condition -- God says that after the Gog/Magog battle, Israel will "no longer pollute" His name. The victory will lead to Israel fully acknowledging and worshiping The Lord. By the time of Rev 20, Jesus Christ The Lord, will be ruling out of Israel in person. There is no way that Israel would be a place to pollute God's name with God incarnate on the throne ruling with a rod of iron.

4. Method of defeat -- Ezekiel also details how Gog/Magog will be defeated: via brimstone, blood and hail. The Revelation 20 battle army is defeated by fire from Heaven.

5. Post battle conditions - Gog/Magog is followed by a series of post battle conditions. Animals eat certain bodies of the dead. There is a massive cleanup project. And weapons are burned for fuel for seven years. We see no such things take place at Rev 20. At the end of Rev 20, Satan and sin have been fully defeated, allowing God to make a New Heaven and Earth, free from any of the stain of sins past. Humans don't do any cleanup. God does it. Additionally, the seven year timeframe obviously would not apply to this.

So why are Gog and Magog mentioned in Rev 20? I believe the names are just being used descriptively to detail the nature of the battle: another assault on Israel, not the actual participants. Gog will have been long dead by the time of the Millienium.

Ezekiel 39
5 You will fall in the open field, for I have spoken, declares the Sovereign LORD. 6 I will send fire on Magog and on those who live in safety in the coastlands, and they will know that I am the LORD.


Rev 20
9 They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them.


I just can't get past fire coming down from heaven in both cases to destroy Gog/Magog. Just don't see this happening twice.

But there are many more reasons than that. I see no place to put this war unless it is Armageddon. It can't be before armageddon.

 

[CryptoLutheran]

Yes, I respect the apocryphal books much more if they are mentioned by the Canonized Bible. The Book of Jasher was mentioned in the Book of Joshua and 2 Samuel, just like the Book of Enoch has been mentioned in the Book of Jude.

The difference between Jasher and Enoch, however, is that we actually have Enoch, we don't have Jasher. The Book of Jasher is lost to time, what circulates around as the long lost Book of Jasher is an 18th century forgery.

As long as some of the apocryphal books that aren't mentioned in the Holy Bible do not conflict with the Holy Bible, I see no problem using them. There are plenty of Secular sources also that should be read because they help prove to the non-believing world that the Holy Bible is true and accurate.

Non-canonical texts are only as good as far as their orthodoxy is concerned or as to their historical merit. There are plenty of texts that I find valuable that were at one point regarded as canonical or at least in the discussion of canonicity such as the Didache or 1 Clement; but as far as texts which were never considered for canonicity I would much rather look to what the Fathers themselves wrote.

-CryptoLutheran

Of course when they see fulfilled prophecy or archeological discoveries mentioned in Biblical areas that should clue them in.

That's what I love about prophecy and archeology, as well as Biblical History, it keeps your faith fresh and alive just reading and knowing about them. No other religion has more proof supporting its truthfulness than does Christianity along with non-Messianic Jews that don't realize yet the rest of the story (New Testament) is true too. When I say Christianity, I include Judaism; Jews are our brothers since we have been grafted into the same family of God as heirs along with the Jew.

Rickey

 

[CryptoLutheran]

The English translators translated it as a petition, but the wording is a prophetic declaration of what is goiing to happen, and you can take it to the bank. It will happen, and when it does, Israel will have her "promised by YHWH" land borders, which he gave to Abraham as an everlasting covenant. They will have their borders from the river of Egypt to the Euphrates, up to Mount Hermon of the Lebanon border, and to the Mediterranean sea -and Damascus will be a heap of ruins, never inhabited again.

I'm sure the inhabitants of Damascus, Christian and Jewish included, would be totally stoked to have the God they worship turn their homes into rubble.

House of St. Ananias, where St. Paul became Apostle to the Gentiles, Damascus, Syria.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[yeshuasavedme]

I'm sure the inhabitants of Damascus, Christian and Jewish included, would be totally stoked to have the God they worship turn their homes into rubble.

House of St. Ananias, where St. Paul became Apostle to the Gentiles, Damascus, Syria.

-CryptoLutheran

I'll be happy to be nuked to heaven, myself...as long as God's kingdom comes and His will is done on earth as it is in heaven...
And why do you think any Christians or Jews will even be living there that have not been killed by Islamics, when that happens? after all, no one was left in Sodom, Gommorah, or the cities of the plains when YHWH nuked it, who were righteous, and Lot and girls only got out because of Abraham's intercessory prayers.
If there are Christians who are there whom God wants to live on earth for His purposes, then He will lead them to get out or make a way for them too.
What God has said He will do, He will do.

Did you know that God sent a man and a woman to warn the Japanese Diet that He was going to rain fire and brimstone on them if they did not cease persecuting Christians in the nations they invaded?
You can read that true story in "If I Perish". So Damascus is warned in the Word, already, so anyone who really comes to know God will take heed to His Word, and go, or stay if they are led to stay....

 

[yeshuasavedme]

The difference between Jasher and Enoch, however, is that we actually have Enoch, we don't have Jasher. The Book of Jasher is lost to time, what circulates around as the long lost Book of Jasher .

-CryptoLutheran

Forgeries of everything abound, but you are giving an evil report on a true history that has been known to still be in existence by the west for 5 centuries -or over 4, I'll have to check.
Book of Jasher Bible - SpeedBible by johnhurt.com

Book of Jasher
Preface | Introduction | Old Book Surfaces to Taunt Scholars | Reprint available | Jasher Links

 

[LovedofHim]

Ezekiel 39
5 You will fall in the open field, for I have spoken, declares the Sovereign LORD. 6 I will send fire on Magog and on those who live in safety in the coastlands, and they will know that I am the LORD.


Rev 20
9 They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them.


I just can't get past fire coming down from heaven in both cases to destroy Gog/Magog. Just don't see this happening twice.

But there are many more reasons than that. I see no place to put this war unless it is Armageddon. It can't be before armageddon.

Yes it can and it is.

Ezek 38/39's gog armies are destroyed hail, fire and blood falling from heaven before the antichrist is empowered.
Revelation 8, the 1st trumpet of the 7th seal is that moment in time. They invade Israel at the time of the 6th seal, proven by Joel 2, and are destroyed by the 1st trumpet of the 7th seal on the Day of the Lord.

[The false prophet uses "fire from heaven" to convince people that the beast is God in Revelation 13. Why would he do that? - because that's what God uses to destroy gog's armies.

The two witnesses use fire to destroy their enemies just like Elijah did.]

There are indeed TWO gog armies, one when the Day of the Lord begins and one when it ends - both are devil-run armies.

 

[NJBeliever]

Ezekiel 39
5 You will fall in the open field, for I have spoken, declares the Sovereign LORD. 6 I will send fire on Magog and on those who live in safety in the coastlands, and they will know that I am the LORD.


Rev 20
9 They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them.


I just can't get past fire coming down from heaven in both cases to destroy Gog/Magog. Just don't see this happening twice.

But there are many more reasons than that. I see no place to put this war unless it is Armageddon. It can't be before armageddon.

Jen already quoted the passage that shows how Gog/Magog is destroyed above but I just wanted to voice my agreement with her.

I can only keep stating it: similarity does not equal sameness. This is a very important principle to remember when studying Scripture.

 

[grabsuccess]

Jen already quoted the passage that shows how Gog/Magog is destroyed above but I just wanted to voice my agreement with her.

I can only keep stating it: similarity does not equal sameness. This is a very important principle to remember when studying Scripture.

It it nice to know anyway that Islam (The False Religion of Death) will not prevail. Islam has caused so much harm in the world, it is about time Islam died itself.

Islam, with the Qur'an (Islam's holy book), the Hadith (essential supplements and clarifications of the Qur'an), and Clerics - have poisoned what could have been a great people.

Why is it that so-called Holy Men in Islam tend to be dictators if the Clerics are in power or seem not to care for, or do anything for their people?

I am glad I wasn't raised a Muslim, or worse yet - a Muslim woman.

 

[grabsuccess]

I have added the following maps and illustrations to my original posts on page 1, to make it much easier to follow for any further visitors to the page.

I would have put them with the original post before, but unfortunately I did not have at least 50 posts at that time.

Now, with the maps and illustrations the differences between the Ezekiel 38 War and the Psalm 38 War prior to that already known about War in prophecy will be easier to see.

 

[laconicstudent]

I don't understand why everyone assigns the nation of Israel such huge eschatological significance when the Bible makes it pretty clear that the Church is the New Israel.

 

[Choose Wisely]

I don't understand why everyone assigns the nation of Israel such huge eschatological significance when the Bible makes it pretty clear that the Church is the New Israel.

No, that only came about when people had no faith to believe what God said. Now that Israel is restored as a nation just like God said it would be, that replacement theology is dead.

 

[laconicstudent]

No, that only came about when people had no faith to believe what God said. Now that Israel is restored as a nation just like God said it would be, that replacement theology is dead.

I disagree. The Jews lost their special status as "Chosen" when they killed Jesus.

The New Israel is the Church. Who Is The New Israel | Antiochian Orthodox Christian Archdiocese

​

This interpretation
of the covenant with Abraham and his descendents as fulfilled through Christ and His Church is firmly grounded in the witness of the New Testament. In the parable of the Vineyard Owner, our Lord uses the unfaithful tenants of a vineyard to illustrate this point. The owner, representing God, sent his servants, representing the prophets, and finally his son and heir, representing Christ, to collect his rent. The tenants, who represent the Jews, ignored the request for the rent and killed both the servants and the son of the owner of the vineyard. At the end of the parable our Lord said, “Therefore what will the owner of the vineyard do? He will come and destroy the vinedressers, and give the vineyard to others” (Mark 12:1-9). In other words, those who faithfully believe in Him will inherit the status that Israel had before it rejected the Messiah.
​

​

 

[LovedofHim]

I disagree. The Jews lost their special status as "Chosen" when they killed Jesus.

The New Israel is the Church. Who Is The New Israel | Antiochian Orthodox Christian Archdiocese

[/left]

And what about the gentiles? Did they lose when they (almighty ROMA) killed Jesus?

 

[laconicstudent]

And what about the gentiles? Did they lose when they (ROMA) killed Jesus?

Lose what?

And besides:

"24When Pilate saw that he was getting nowhere, but that instead an uproar was starting, he took water and washed his hands in front of the crowd. “I am innocent of this man’s blood,” he said. “It is your responsibility!” 25All the people answered, “Let his blood be on us and on our children!”
26Then he released Barabbas to them. But he had Jesus flogged, and handed him over to be crucified."


The Roman official agrees just to appease the rioting crowd, it isn't like he wants to do it, its the Jews who are pretty clearly intent on judicial murder.

 

[LovedofHim]

Lose what?

And besides:

"24When Pilate saw that he was getting nowhere, but that instead an uproar was starting, he took water and washed his hands in front of the crowd. “I am innocent of this man’s blood,” he said. “It is your responsibility!” 25All the people answered, “Let his blood be on us and on our children!”
26Then he released Barabbas to them. But he had Jesus flogged, and handed him over to be crucified."


The Roman official agrees just to appease the rioting crowd, it isn't like he wants to do it, its the Jews who are pretty clearly intent on judicial murder.

It wasn't the Jews who flogged Jesus and nailed Him to a cross. It was almighty ROME.

 

[laconicstudent]

It wasn't the Jews who flogged Jesus and nailed Him to a cross. It was almighty ROME.

Arguing with the Bible are we? It was the Jews who were rioting outside of Pilate's palace howling for his blood. Pilate declared himself free of responsibility, the Jews explicitly told Pilate that his blood would be on them.

25All the people [The Jews] answered, “Let his blood be on us and on our children!”



So yeah, it was pretty much the Jews that killed Jesus. Their hands might have not been holding the nails and hammer, but they sure screamed and screamed at the governor until he caved and became the tool in their hands. Their blood-soaked hands.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

I disagree. The Jews lost their special status as "Chosen" when they killed Jesus.

Um-m -I think you have missed the message of the Cross, and Paul rebukes you, in Romans 11.

Jesus is a Jew, and He is in fact, "Israel", the Firstborn Son of God of the New Man name, and YHWH come in flesh to be Kinsman/Redeemer to His own elect sons, first, who have the "adoption name" and to the Gentiles, last. That is what the Word teaches us.

To the Elect, namesake people, upon whom He invoked His New Man name as a sign of the adoption [second birth of Spirit, first] which was to come and is now come for whosoever will, He has given blinding of their eyes as a nation, until the fullness of the Gentiles is harvested and ingathered. He then turns to His own Namesake people of His New Man name, "Israel".

The human being, second creation, body of flesh in which Christ is come incarnate in as second Man and Son of God is the True Mercy Seat that His namesake people of the New Man name were give the type of, in the solid gold [incorruptible] cover to the Ark of the Covenant, to rehearse His Atonement upon, year by year, until it was fulfilled.
He was always going to come and die as Kinsman/Redeemer, to fulfill the Atonement. Everything about the Day of Atonement is all about Him, and only His Namesake people of the New Man name were given that to rehearse, as the Oracle of His Person and work, until it was fulfilled.

Psalm 118 is all about His being "bound to the altar of sacrifice", as "Our God", "our Salvation/Yeshua" [Israel's God, first, and the Gentiles who hear and believe, last], and the "Gate of entry into the City of God's Righteousness".

Psa 118:19 Open to me the gates of righteousness: I will go into them, [and] I will praise the LORD: This gate of the LORD, into which the righteous shall enter.
I will praise thee: for thou hast heard me, and art become my salvation/Yeshua.
The stone [which] the builders refused is become the head [stone] of the corner.
This is the LORD'S doing; it [is] marvellous in our eyes.
This [is] the day [which] the LORD hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it.
Save now, I beseech thee, O LORD: O LORD, I beseech thee, send now prosperity.
Blessed [be] he that cometh in the name of the LORD: we have blessed you out of the house of the LORD.
God [is] the LORD, which hath shewed us light: bind the sacrifice with cords, [even] unto the horns of the altar.
Thou [art] my God, and I will praise thee: [thou art] my God, I will exalt thee.
Psa 118:29 O give thanks unto the LORD; for [he is] good: for his mercy [endureth] for ever.