Proverbs 3:5

[Dana Fitzpatrick]

"Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding."

Please describe any time you regret fully placing your trust in God. Please also feel free to describe a situation in which someone you know personally experienced this. Please also indicate whether you would or would not feel comfortable with an offline discussion via PM or email for the purpose of friendship.

 

[Greg J.]

It seems extremely improbable to me, but the fact is I've never regretted it. Please also note that Scripture testifies the same thing. Who in all of Scripture regretted (genuinely) trusting in God?

I have noted in the past, however, that you can't just choose to "trust" God for anything you can think of. A great starting place is to trust God for what he already promised in Scripture (that would apply to us today). As one's faith grows, what you know you can trust God for becomes wider and deeper, and he'll remain faithful through it all.

Feel free to PM me.

 

[Dana Fitzpatrick]

That's kind of what I was hoping to get at here, Greg. Based on many conversations I've witnessed over the years concerning faith and lack thereof the central theme is a level of trust. Humans betray and therefore deserve no trust. God never fails, and so if anyone feels that He has I'd like to hear the specifics. At the very least it would give me the opportunity to connect with someone who has been hurt.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Humans betray and therefore deserve no trust.

You are human. Do you "deserve no trust"?

In my experience, much of the hurt that leads to cynicism is my own fault. It happens when I've trusting people to do and be for us what only God can do and be for me. It's a form of idolatry, and that always leads to pain. . .

 

[dysert]

"Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding."

Please describe any time you regret fully placing your trust in God. Please also feel free to describe a situation in which someone you know personally experienced this. Please also indicate whether you would or would not feel comfortable with an offline discussion via PM or email for the purpose of friendship.

I'll take a temporary break from my typical Christian approach to things and say that yes, I have a huge regret for placing my trust in God. (I'll also allow for the possibility that I in fact didn't fully trust him, if that makes a difference.) I apologize for the length, but you asked me to describe a time...

It was about 20 years ago. My employer was laying off thousands of people left and right for a period of nearly 2 years. (It was a very big international employer.) I couldn't take it any more -- seeing good people that I knew get the axe, and wondering when my turn would come. I decided to look for another job and quit.

I found another job in another state working with people I already knew. Seemed like a good gig, but I was afraid of relocating. Terrified, in fact. Well, my wife convinced me that God would take care of us, so we did it. I fell into a deep, chronic depression (which I'm still on meds for to this day). The depression changed me, and I blame it for my being a bad father to my kids and a bad husband to my wife. My relationship with my daughter is still strained after 20 years, and my marriage is a mere shadow of its former self.

There are more details I could share, but I think you get the picture. I trusted God (I think), but our lives changed for the worse, and we're still suffering the ramifications of that. To this day, this is my one big regret in life. If I had it to do over I wouldn't do it. I'm still bitter at God after all this time.

 

[Dana Fitzpatrick]

You are human. Do you "deserve no trust"?

I am human and therefore deserve only eternal separation from God. I can be trusted most of the time, but deserve is a very strong word indicative of what I have earned.

Well, my wife convinced me that God would take care of us, so we did it. I fell into a deep, chronic depression (which I'm still on meds for to this day). The depression changed me, and I blame it for my being a bad father to my kids and a bad husband to my wife. My relationship with my daughter is still strained after 20 years, and my marriage is a mere shadow of its former self.

There are more details I could share, but I think you get the picture. I trusted God (I think), but our lives changed for the worse, and we're still suffering the ramifications of that. To this day, this is my one big regret in life. If I had it to do over I wouldn't do it. I'm still bitter at God after all this time.

Dysert, I am truly grieved as I read your post. I can only imagine after that experience that it must be difficult for you to imagine a caring and comforting Father looking upon you. How would you now describe your relationship with God? When you say that maybe you didn't trust Him fully, in what area did you hold back? What do you consider the most likely outcome if you were offered a redo? What would be your relationship with God now if you had chosen that different path?

 

[dysert]

Dysert, I am truly grieved as I read your post. I can only imagine after that experience that it must be difficult for you to imagine a caring and comforting Father looking upon you. How would you now describe your relationship with God? When you say that maybe you didn't trust Him fully, in what area did you hold back? What do you consider the most likely outcome if you were offered a redo? What would be your relationship with God now if you had chosen that different path?

Thank you. Fortunately, I accept the Bible as the inerrant Word of God, and since it teaches a loving God then I accept Him as that. Why He has let me be afflicted in such as way that would affect virtually my entire life and the lives of my family I cannot explain.

I am bitter toward God and really don't talk to Him. I still go to church and still study the Bible (and teach it on rare opportunities). If I were offered a redo, I would stay put and presumably have been a good husband and father. I would have friends and still be teaching the Word at my church. I would not be depressed and all that that entails. I assume I would still be on fire for God and be interested in many godly pursuits. From all outward appearances our move here 20 years ago was a huge mistake that has essentially cost me my life and to a large extent the lives of my wife and kids.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

I'll take a temporary break from my typical Christian approach to things and say that yes, I have a huge regret for placing my trust in God. (I'll also allow for the possibility that I in fact didn't fully trust him, if that makes a difference.) I apologize for the length, but you asked me to describe a time...

It was about 20 years ago. My employer was laying off thousands of people left and right for a period of nearly 2 years. (It was a very big international employer.) I couldn't take it any more -- seeing good people that I knew get the axe, and wondering when my turn would come. I decided to look for another job and quit.

I found another job in another state working with people I already knew. Seemed like a good gig, but I was afraid of relocating. Terrified, in fact. Well, my wife convinced me that God would take care of us, so we did it. I fell into a deep, chronic depression (which I'm still on meds for to this day). The depression changed me, and I blame it for my being a bad father to my kids and a bad husband to my wife. My relationship with my daughter is still strained after 20 years, and my marriage is a mere shadow of its former self.

There are more details I could share, but I think you get the picture. I trusted God (I think), but our lives changed for the worse, and we're still suffering the ramifications of that. To this day, this is my one big regret in life. If I had it to do over I wouldn't do it. I'm still bitter at God after all this time.

I have no idea how you pin this on God. He never made such a promise. Your own actions caused unpleasant consequences. It's that simple.

 

[dysert]

I have no idea how you pin this on God. He never made such a promise. Your own actions caused unpleasant consequences. It's that simple.

Thanks for your understanding. I'm not pinning anything on God. The OP asked me to "describe any time you regret fully placing your trust in God." I have described such a time. Now I could say, "trust in God for what?" Obviously He never promised me smooth sailing after a relocation. For that matter He never promised me smooth sailing at all. He never promised me a good marriage or a great relationship with my kids. He never promised me a job, health, wealth, or *anything* except eternal life. Well, the upshot of it is, eternal life is the only thing I'm trusting Him for now. Do you think that's His intention? Are you trusting God for anything other than eternal life?

 

[jimmyjimmy]

I'm still bitter at God after all this time.

You seem to be placing the blame for your decision on God. If not, what does the above statement mean?

 

[Dana Fitzpatrick]

Dysert, the scenario you’ve described causes me great concern. The fact that you occasionally teach the Bible indicates to me that you occupy a position of authority, but you lack sincerity. This leaves the door wide open to lead others astray. Trust in God is fundamental to our faith. How can any of us love God above all else if we are unable to trust Him implicitly? I would really like to introduce you to the God that I know in my heart. I can only speak from experience because you seem to already know the words in Scripture, but I’d like to share a bit of testimony that you may find useful.



My first wife and I should not have ever married. We were violent and unable to discuss anything. We lived that way before the marriage ever started almost 20 years ago. After a few years we decided to do it God’s way. After a few months of that I grew impatient with my loving and forgiving acts eliciting further accusations of cheating and tighter control. When she poured my whiskey bottle out in front of my friend I decided that God’s way was just too slow for me. I sought counseling for my anger issues and made some immense changes within myself. When I decided that I didn’t feel like waiting any longer for her to make the corresponding changes I divorced her. Since that time I have lost a career as a Naval Aviator, dated every crazy female but Lady Gaga herself, and paid ridiculous sums of money to all sorts of people that never earned it. Last year I told God that I’ve seen how well I can do on my own and I wanted Him to show me what He can do instead.



Since I made that decision He has asked for levels of trust that would have made me extremely uncomfortable if I hadn’t already seen the massive screw-ups of which I myself am capable. I’ve since remarried according to God’s Will in my life. I would not have married this woman on my own since there are far too many worse choices out there for me to indulge myself. When we fight, I resist the urge to battle her. When I forgive her and express my love for her we move on with our life together seamlessly. He asked me to write an email that carried the potential to destroy the military career I’ve managed to salvage. I prayed for the right words, just as I do with every other correspondence I send. Nothing ever came of it, even though something very negative should have. He gave me a vision that involved the loss of my daughter in a car accident, and I told Him that I trust Him no matter what. That was a long road trip full of all sorts of trouble, but my daughter is still alive, well, and saved by the power of His Blood, baptized also.



I can’t say that I regret ever trusting in God. I regret resisting Him all these years. Now that I’ve fully surrendered my entire life to His Will I find fulfillment in places I never would have looked on my own. You could look at my life and easily see countless examples of me doing everything I could to destroy the many opportunities that came my way, but you could also see that in many ways I’ve succeeded despite significant odds. The most valuable lesson I’ve learned is that God doesn’t want to share my life with me. He wants me to give it over in its entirety. Every day I’m presented with choices. One of the choices is for God. The rest are to be avoided. Sometimes the choice is very difficult. That’s where the trust comes in. I know that God has a path laid before me. I know where all the others lead, because I spent several decades trying them on for size. So far, God’s path has done a great deal to clean my life and heal old wounds. I’m a work in progress, of course, but I trust God with everything. I hope that you can open yourself to do the same.

 

[dysert]

Thanks for that reply, Dana. It deserves a thorough read, and since I'm at work I can't do that right now. In skimming it, though, there is one question I wanted to ask right away. You said you trust God with everything. Can you be specific? I mean, do you trust Him to keep you employed? Do you trust Him to keep your marriage together? Do you trust Him to keep you from contracting a terminal illness? You get the idea. I want to know what you're trusting Him *for*. How does that play out, practically? Thanks.

 

[brinny]

Proverbs 3:5

"Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding."

Please describe any time you regret fully placing your trust in God. Please also feel free to describe a situation in which someone you know personally experienced this. Please also indicate whether you would or would not feel comfortable with an offline discussion via PM or email for the purpose of friendship.

i've never regretted it.

(verse 6 is phenomenal also.)

 

[Dana Fitzpatrick]

I get the idea of what you’re asking. When I say I trust God with everything I mean that no matter what happens I know it’s going to be OK. If I would have married a stark raving mad banshee from Hell I know that God would have made it work, because doing it His way put me into that relationship. If that email I sent ended up costing me my job and sent me to prison, God would have been there in prison with me. He would have taken care of my family and put me in contact with other men that needed me. If I lost my daughter on that trip, God would have taken her home. That’s better than getting sexually assaulted by a gang of cracked out thugs in high school, which could still happen. Do I care about my job? Not even a little. My real job is to do God’s work. My marriage? It’s on me to be the husband God expects me to be. Thankfully my wife is the woman God expects her to be. When we fall short God is right there telling us to fix it before we bother coming back into His presence. If you can’t love your wife you can’t love a God that you don’t even see. What if I contracted a terminal illness? I trust my One True Physician. I’ve already experienced healing in Him. I’ve healed others and been healed myself. Some things haven’t healed yet. I trust that God knows what He’s doing.



The real point of this is that I don’t care what happens to me. I care what God thinks of me. Challenges happen in life. If someone punches me in the face I’m going to make sure it’s because I was sharing Jesus. I want everyone that meets me to think to themselves “That’s what Jesus must have been like.” Nothing else matters. It’s all noise that is purposefully designed to distract you from doing God’s Work. Right now there are dozens of God-loving Christians arguing with each other on this forum about what God meant when He said thus in such and such chapter umpty scrunch verse whatever. Distractions. Put God first, eliminate everything that takes away from your focus on Him, and then love everyone else. Period. If you can master that, then you have time to quibble over verses and the daily nonsense they call life around here. Otherwise you’re missing out.

 

[Goodbook]

That verse is a very important one to tell a new christian. I have never regretted placing my trust in Him.

Some people do place their trust in other people, or perhaps religion,or their own intellect but they dont come to Jesus to receive what can only come through Him.

When i talk to people who say they had faith and then lost it it is because they took their focus off Him and onto something else. A very dangerous teaching is to believe that we can use God like a genie to get whatever we want instead of trusting His ways are higher than our ways. A other one is not to confirm things with Him first and listen to what other people tell us instead of listening to Jesus, and searching scripture to see if things are so.

 

[Greg J.]

... The fact that you occasionally teach the Bible indicates to me that you occupy a position of authority, but you lack sincerity. This leaves the door wide open to lead others astray.

Without more detail, this doesn't concern me. For all I know no one at your church can teach anything and you're all they've got! Having said that, be aware that what is in your heart will transfer to those you teach just as much as what you say.

dysert and Dana, you both seem to be on good paths. The thought that came to mind when reading your accounts is how huge your reward is going to be. Don't underestimate the awesomeness of still sticking with the Lord after all the things you've been through (and are going through). Your fights have just as much potential for reward as any life of ministry. Holding on can sometimes be harder than pushing forward to do what God wants you to do.

Getting to know God correctly requires a certain level of denying the reality we experience. Recognizing that God is in control of everything is not the same as saying everything happens the way God wants it to. It absolutely does not. God is not God of a perfect world. He is God of this terrible fallen, sin-infested, God-rejecting world. God allows horrors to come to us for very, very good reasons. Even if you can't see why the reasons were overwhelmingly good, you can still trust that the Lord will ensure that everything turns out for your blessing.

Also, you don't know what would have happened if you had done differently. It may seem that if you didn't relocate none of this would have happened, but what would have happened? You can be certain it wouldn't have been all good (which is how we fantasize). It may feel improbable, but it would have been worse for you in the long run, because at the very least God sees how your faith in him cost you and he is guaranteed to reward you many times as much as it cost you.

Thank the Lord daily for whatever you are genuinely thankful for. It is a way to fight the disparity between what you know (God is good) and what is in your heart (God let too much pain hit my life). God will show you more and more truth that will make you even more thankful.

Some people proclaim we should be thanking God for everything, but that is incorrect. Remember that our lives do not just consist of what God wants for us. That's what heaven is like. Our lives consist of what God has chosen for us, but there is a whole lot that goes into those decisions other than just what God desired. Our goal is to be thankful for what is from God no matter what is happening. Don't thank God for things that he is not responsible for (any of the effects of sin).

Having said that, the Lord has shown me before that something terrible I went through had a good consequence—a great blessing that is impossible for anyone to get without going through what I did. Consider that we are to comfort others with the comfort we have received from God (2 Corinthians 1:4). What if instead of comforting others, it is about saving lives—or souls. Suffering can prepare a person to help save other people in ways that no other process can. In fact, just holding on to God through suffering can bring God's saving power to earth for people without you participating in it or even knowing about it.

God is completely trustworthy. When it seems otherwise, it means something else was at work. If we wonder why God didn't stop it, the reason is the same—something else was at work, but it wasn't because of God.

 

[dysert]

Since I made that decision He has asked for levels of trust that would have made me extremely uncomfortable if I hadn’t already seen the massive screw-ups of which I myself am capable. I’ve since remarried according to God’s Will in my life. I would not have married this woman on my own since there are far too many worse choices out there for me to indulge myself. When we fight, I resist the urge to battle her. When I forgive her and express my love for her we move on with our life together seamlessly. He asked me to write an email that carried the potential to destroy the military career I’ve managed to salvage. I prayed for the right words, just as I do with every other correspondence I send. Nothing ever came of it, even though something very negative should have. He gave me a vision that involved the loss of my daughter in a car accident, and I told Him that I trust Him no matter what. That was a long road trip full of all sorts of trouble, but my daughter is still alive, well, and saved by the power of His Blood, baptized also.

I can’t say that I regret ever trusting in God. I regret resisting Him all these years. Now that I’ve fully surrendered my entire life to His Will I find fulfillment in places I never would have looked on my own. You could look at my life and easily see countless examples of me doing everything I could to destroy the many opportunities that came my way, but you could also see that in many ways I’ve succeeded despite significant odds. The most valuable lesson I’ve learned is that God doesn’t want to share my life with me. He wants me to give it over in its entirety. Every day I’m presented with choices. One of the choices is for God. The rest are to be avoided. Sometimes the choice is very difficult. That’s where the trust comes in. I know that God has a path laid before me. I know where all the others lead, because I spent several decades trying them on for size. So far, God’s path has done a great deal to clean my life and heal old wounds. I’m a work in progress, of course, but I trust God with everything. I hope that you can open yourself to do the same.

Thanks for sharing, Dana. You're "sold out" for God the way I used to be, and that's good. I'm still trying to get at the bottom line, though -- something concrete. Fyi, I'm a long-time believer and know the Bible quite well, so you're not talking to a rookie here.

Prov. 3:5-6 says, "Trust in the LORD with all your heart, And lean not on your own understanding; In all your ways acknowledge Him, And He shall direct your paths."

For the past 20 years I've been trying to figure out what exactly that means. Trust Him for *what*? As I said, I trust Him for eternal life, but when it comes to anything else, no so much. I don't trust Him to keep me employed since I've been laid off several times. I don't trust Him to keep me healthy, since I have health problems. I don't trust Him to keep my marriage good since it's below average already. You get the idea. Trust Him for *what*? When we relocated we trusted Him to "take care of us" (whatever that means). One could say He did because I stayed employed and no one got killed. Otoh, my family has paid a heavy price, and so have I. I suppose He directed my paths, but I sure don't like the way things turned out.

You say, you remarried according to God's will. I think I know what you mean when you say that. You felt God telling you to marry her, so you did. It hasn't been all roses, but she's God's choice for you, and the two of you will do what it takes to have a godly marriage. Where does trusting God come into this? Are you trusting God that she'll never leave you or cheat on you (or vice versa)? What about the thousands of Christian marriages just like your where the couple *did* split up, were they not trusting God? Did He let them down?

You say you prayed for the right words when you wrote your email. What were you trusting God for? That nothing bad would happen?

You know that God has laid a path before you. From Prov. 3:6, I know that too. But what does that mean? It's not necessarily an easy path. It's not a path where there won't be trouble. Ultimately, I think the only thing you can say is that the path before us is one that leads to eternal life, and as I've already said, I am trusting God for that.

So if you could put some concrete examples to how you're trusting God I would appreciate hearing specifics. Thanks for sharing in any case.

 

[dysert]

Proverbs 3:5


i've never regretted it.

(verse 6 is phenomenal also.)

Hi Brinny. May I ask what specifically you're trusting God for?

 

[dysert]

I get the idea of what you’re asking. When I say I trust God with everything I mean that no matter what happens I know it’s going to be OK. If I would have married a stark raving mad banshee from Hell I know that God would have made it work, because doing it His way put me into that relationship. If that email I sent ended up costing me my job and sent me to prison, God would have been there in prison with me. He would have taken care of my family and put me in contact with other men that needed me. If I lost my daughter on that trip, God would have taken her home. That’s better than getting sexually assaulted by a gang of cracked out thugs in high school, which could still happen. Do I care about my job? Not even a little. My real job is to do God’s work. My marriage? It’s on me to be the husband God expects me to be. Thankfully my wife is the woman God expects her to be. When we fall short God is right there telling us to fix it before we bother coming back into His presence. If you can’t love your wife you can’t love a God that you don’t even see. What if I contracted a terminal illness? I trust my One True Physician. I’ve already experienced healing in Him. I’ve healed others and been healed myself. Some things haven’t healed yet. I trust that God knows what He’s doing.



The real point of this is that I don’t care what happens to me. I care what God thinks of me. Challenges happen in life. If someone punches me in the face I’m going to make sure it’s because I was sharing Jesus. I want everyone that meets me to think to themselves “That’s what Jesus must have been like.” Nothing else matters. It’s all noise that is purposefully designed to distract you from doing God’s Work. Right now there are dozens of God-loving Christians arguing with each other on this forum about what God meant when He said thus in such and such chapter umpty scrunch verse whatever. Distractions. Put God first, eliminate everything that takes away from your focus on Him, and then love everyone else. Period. If you can master that, then you have time to quibble over verses and the daily nonsense they call life around here. Otherwise you’re missing out.

Ok, we're getting closer to specifics. Thank you. There are still some "weak words" in your post though (not arguing or trying to offend; I'm just trying to define what it means to trust God). For example, you say that, "no matter what happens I know it’s going to be OK". What is "OK"? Does that mean you'll always have a good marriage? Does it mean your daughter will be healthy? Does it mean you'll always have enough money to maintain a roof over your head, etc.? There are plenty of Christians where these things are not true, and I would ask them the same question. What is "OK"?

Thanks for the good conversation.

 

[dysert]

Without more detail, this doesn't concern me. For all I know no one at your church can teach anything and you're all they've got! Having said that, be aware that what is in your heart will transfer to those you teach just as much as what you say.

dysert and Dana, you both seem to be on good paths. The thought that came to mind when reading your accounts is how huge your reward is going to be. Don't underestimate the awesomeness of still sticking with the Lord after all the things you've been through (and are going through). Your fights have just as much potential for reward as any life of ministry. Holding on can sometimes be harder than pushing forward to do what God wants you to do.

Getting to know God correctly requires a certain level of denying the reality we experience. Recognizing that God is in control of everything is not the same as saying everything happens the way God wants it to. It absolutely does not. God is not God of a perfect world. He is God of this terrible fallen, sin-infested, God-rejecting world. God allows horrors to come to us for very, very good reasons. Even if you can't see why the reasons were overwhelmingly good, you can still trust that the Lord will ensure that everything turns out for your blessing.

Also, you don't know what would have happened if you had done differently. It may seem that if you didn't relocate none of this would have happened, but what would have happened? You can be certain it wouldn't have been all good (which is how we fantasize). It may feel improbable, but it would have been worse for you in the long run, because at the very least God sees how your faith in him cost you and he is guaranteed to reward you many times as much as it cost you.

Thank the Lord daily for whatever you are genuinely thankful for. It is a way to fight the disparity between what you know (God is good) and what is in your heart (God let too much pain hit my life). God will show you more and more truth that will make you even more thankful.

Some people proclaim we should be thanking God for everything, but that is incorrect. Remember that our lives do not just consist of what God wants for us. That's what heaven is like. Our lives consist of what God has chosen for us, but there is a whole lot that goes into those decisions other than just what God desired. Our goal is to be thankful for what is from God no matter what is happening. Don't thank God for things that he is not responsible for (any of the effects of sin).

Having said that, the Lord has shown me before that something terrible I went through had a good consequence—a great blessing that is impossible for anyone to get without going through what I did. Consider that we are to comfort others with the comfort we have received from God (2 Corinthians 1:4). What if instead of comforting others, it is about saving lives—or souls. Suffering can prepare a person to help save other people in ways that no other process can. In fact, just holding on to God through suffering can bring God's saving power to earth for people without you participating in it or even knowing about it.

God is completely trustworthy. When it seems otherwise, it means something else was at work. If we wonder why God didn't stop it, the reason is the same—something else was at work, but it wasn't because of God.

Thank you Greg. That's some good stuff in there. I do have one question for you, though. You said,
"God allows horrors to come to us for very, very good reasons. Even if you can't see why the reasons were overwhelmingly good, you can still trust that the Lord will ensure that everything turns out for your blessing." If you're talking about my blessing being eternal life, then I'm with you. If you're talking about any temporal blessing, then I'd have to challenge that.

Oh, and don't worry. I learned a long time ago that people care more about my heart than they do about my head. I'm just struggling to get the two lined up properly.