Prosperity and Health teaching?

de1929

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Good day, I have encountered the prosperity and health teaching, or Gospel since 1991. I liked some of it. I was also taught the remnant of old Catholic to be sick is special and to be poor is close to God. I was not so free. I was pushed around by my father and my uncles but there was the more reasonable Full Gospel preachers and would you believe my WOF parish priest.

I believe now in independence that healing and prosperity can be good. God promises in Jeremiah 11:12-14 that he wants prosper us. And Paul wrote, even as your soul prospers. I believe it is meant to be spirit, soul and body. Countries with a justice basis prosper compared to others in Asia and Africa. Some of us seek the kingdom and justice. Most would prefer to die rather than serve Nazism, pagan imperialism, communism or terrorism.

For a heart set of God, I think the sky is the limit in money, and Christians could well do with words of knowledge and be entrepreneurs.

Healing means peace in soul and body and simply life for some people. Medicine is the noble profession.

I think prosperity in then taking it easy and enjoying the money and being taken away from hands on, compassion and empathy is a poor option. And there are worse extremes. Money can become too important to a ministry.

I think for such as KCM owning a well working jet, which is used for ministry is good like a church bus. Taking it out for a hunting trip is ok, the church knows that's what he does.

Benny Hinn needs a house with a chapel in it and needs security for his family from the disagreeable ones. I suspect he could do with more moderation. Not sure.

Gordon D Fee describes the health and wealth Gospel as a disease. I can see that there are rough edges in that Gospel. I am wondering what you forum members think and feel about this?

I need healing and have begun to receive it.

I need money because of the above. I found some prosperity teaching pointless and fruitless, leading around in circles, impracticable and it makes no sense. I gave up watching it. I am not as confident in Pastor Benny and Pastor Kenneth because of these teachings, mainly from their ministry guests. It even takes away from good prosperity teaching. Practicable wisdom and knowledge and self discipline, having a dream and vision. Like the Great American Dream.

I believe we can ask for words of knowledge for Christian business, witty inventions, and even for the vision statement. To know friend from foe and the dangers and opportunities.

Money can be spent on pilgrimage or on the poor.

Being poor is bad for health and poses dangers in physical security, makes getting married harder. The bottom line, you can lose your peace and happiness. We need be shrewd and wise and have savings... what do you think?

I agree that Christian should be prosper on all areas, including mindset, money, health and anything that human can think of.

To compare easily: Prosperity teaching is like teaching how to use a weapon. Once you become more prosper (any kind of prosperity) is like you know how to handle weapon.

I didn't imply that weapon is bad, or weapon is a mass murder tool. Weapon is weapon. It's depend who the user is.

Go ahead and be prosper. Remember to help other people
 
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WoundedDeep

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Strange how people criticize prosperity while sitting at a very expensive computer, in a very comfortable home with furniture, TV, nice car, plenty of food... etc. etc.

Hint hint....
YOU are prosperous or you would not be here!
Throw away all your goods, put on rags, and live in a cave... and then you can preach poverty. Til then, just thank Him for the good things He has given you!!
Otherwise it is just kind of hard to take you seriously.

I'm not criticizing prosperity, I'm against the pursuit of prosperity driven by the greed and love of money. Everyone has the temptation of greed, but the prosperity gospel turns potential disciples into self seeking converts who are greedy for what they can get out of the Gospel financially rather than seeking the Kingdom of God and His righteousness. Jesus said it is very difficult for the rich to be saved because riches can take a man's heart away from God. He is not saying this as a joke, many people simply do not have the integrity to live a prosperous life and remain faithful to God without seeking after mammon. The only people we know from the Bible who were rich and faithful were David, Esther, Joseph and Job. Most of the other prophets of God were common men or even poor. Many will end up serving mammon rather than God and this is exactly what happens with prosperity preachers and their followers.
 
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de1929

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I'm not criticizing prosperity, I'm against the pursuit of prosperity driven by the greed and love of money. Everyone has the temptation of greed, but the prosperity gospel turns potential disciples into self seeking converts who are greedy for what they can get out of the Gospel financially rather than seeking the Kingdom of God and His righteousness. Jesus said it is very difficult for the rich to be saved because riches can take a man's heart away from God. He is not saying this as a joke, many people simply do not have the integrity to live a prosperous life and remain faithful to God without seeking after mammon. The only people we know from the Bible who were rich and faithful were David, Esther, Joseph and Job. Most of the other prophets of God were common men or even poor. Many will end up serving mammon rather than God and this is exactly what happens with prosperity preachers and their followers.

process mate... process :D ... people has different background, but everybody paying same bills (different recipient of course).

paying bills not using prayer mate, using money.

about serving mamon or GOD ? that message is only for rich people. It is to guide them (similar to dog leashes) so that the money always go out from their pocket and not becoming the cancer.

but for poor people this verse does not apply cuz they don't have budget to give to the poor...
 
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CGL1023

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That is all true.

John wrote to a man named Gaius:

Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth. -- 3 John 2

Then John went on for the next half of the letter speaking to Gaius about generosity.

Jesus gave His basic economic theory for the Body of Christ in Luke 12. He explained that we will each get a day's supply. He explained that it was foolish to think that if we get an excess it's for us to hoard for ourselves. He then explained that if we have excess, it's a stewardship to be used for the benefit of His other servants.

In 2 Corinthians 8, Paul puts a sharper point on it:

Our desire is not that others might be relieved while you are hard pressed, but that there might be equality. At the present time your plenty will supply what they need, so that in turn their plenty will supply what you need. The goal is equality, as it is written: “The one who gathered much did not have too much, and the one who gathered little did not have too little.”
When I first saw the verses you quote 2 Cor 8:13-14, I thought to myself that "equality" must really mean "equity" but at the time I couldn't understand it. Today I looked the verses up in Biblehub.com with about 20 versions of the same verse listed. Not surprisingly, for Verse 14, "equality" was mentioned for NASB and NIV, at the least. The ESV and ISV used the word "fairness" which, to me, better fits the context. Equality of course is OK as it is in the Bible. Enough said.
 
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RDKirk

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When I first saw the verses you quote 2 Cor 8:13-14, I thought to myself that "equality" must really mean "equity" but at the time I couldn't understand it. Today I looked the verses up in Biblehub.com with about 20 versions of the same verse listed. Not surprisingly, for Verse 14, "equality" was mentioned for NASB and NIV, at the least. The ESV and ISV used the word "fairness" which, to me, better fits the context. Equality of course is OK as it is in the Bible. Enough said.

"Equality" is also used in the KJV. However, the Greeks were excellent mathematicians. You've see such ancient equations such as Pythagorean Theorem, right? The Greek isotes literally does mean "identical" in every other context it appears, both in scripture and in every other extra-biblical mathematical instance, such as the Phythagorean Theorum. In the Greek, "equals" means "equals." If Paul had meant "sorta like," there are other words he could have used.

But he used the Greek for "identical" twice.

And then, just as importantly, he referenced Exodus 16, the story of the manna, in which God specified that every Israelite was to have the measured precise same amount of manna every day, whether they gathered less or more.

Paul's intention here is really one of the more precisely and clearly defined intentions of any of his writings.
 
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SpiritPsalmist

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Good day, I have encountered the prosperity and health teaching, or Gospel since 1991. I liked some of it. I was also taught the remnant of old Catholic to be sick is special and to be poor is close to God. I was not so free. I was pushed around by my father and my uncles but there was the more reasonable Full Gospel preachers and would you believe my WOF parish priest.

I believe now in independence that healing and prosperity can be good. God promises in Jeremiah 11:12-14 that he wants prosper us. And Paul wrote, even as your soul prospers. I believe it is meant to be spirit, soul and body. Countries with a justice basis prosper compared to others in Asia and Africa. Some of us seek the kingdom and justice. Most would prefer to die rather than serve Nazism, pagan imperialism, communism or terrorism.

For a heart set of God, I think the sky is the limit in money, and Christians could well do with words of knowledge and be entrepreneurs.

Healing means peace in soul and body and simply life for some people. Medicine is the noble profession.

I think prosperity in then taking it easy and enjoying the money and being taken away from hands on, compassion and empathy is a poor option. And there are worse extremes. Money can become too important to a ministry.

I think for such as KCM owning a well working jet, which is used for ministry is good like a church bus. Taking it out for a hunting trip is ok, the church knows that's what he does.

Benny Hinn needs a house with a chapel in it and needs security for his family from the disagreeable ones. I suspect he could do with more moderation. Not sure.

Gordon D Fee describes the health and wealth Gospel as a disease. I can see that there are rough edges in that Gospel. I am wondering what you forum members think and feel about this?

I need healing and have begun to receive it.

I need money because of the above. I found some prosperity teaching pointless and fruitless, leading around in circles, impracticable and it makes no sense. I gave up watching it. I am not as confident in Pastor Benny and Pastor Kenneth because of these teachings, mainly from their ministry guests. It even takes away from good prosperity teaching. Practicable wisdom and knowledge and self discipline, having a dream and vision. Like the Great American Dream.

I believe we can ask for words of knowledge for Christian business, witty inventions, and even for the vision statement. To know friend from foe and the dangers and opportunities.

Money can be spent on pilgrimage or on the poor.

Being poor is bad for health and poses dangers in physical security, makes getting married harder. The bottom line, you can lose your peace and happiness. We need be shrewd and wise and have savings... what do you think?
In the scriptures being poor and being sick are a curse. Good thoughts you've put out there. Often, but not always we are sick and/or poor due to something we have or have not done. Bad handling of our money will make us poor. Bad handling of our emotions and thoughts will make us sick. Literally.

In some cases one may choose to live without in order to do what they feel God wants them to do. But I have never known for God to require a man to let his family starve. That does not mean there is not some tense times in learning to trust God and having Him supply in wonderful and awesome ways though. Many times there are needs in the body and the body is there to meet the needs when needed. Total dependency on others to support us continually I don't think is ever in God's plan. Even Paul had a "trade" and he used it when necessary. He also helped in taking up money for another church who had fallen into hard times. We don't see him having to do that for all the churches though or for the same church over and over and over again. The needs were short lived. It is good to learn to give and to receive when needed.


Regarding sickness I've started reading a book called "A More Excellent Way" by Dr. Henry W. Wright. Some good information in it.
 
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SpiritPsalmist

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Strange how people criticize prosperity while sitting at a very expensive computer, in a very comfortable home with furniture, TV, nice car, plenty of food... etc. etc.

Hint hint....
YOU are prosperous or you would not be here!
Throw away all your goods, put on rags, and live in a cave... and then you can preach poverty. Til then, just thank Him for the good things He has given you!!
Otherwise it is just kind of hard to take you seriously.
AMEN :p
 
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Frogster

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In the scriptures being poor and being sick are a curse. Good thoughts you've put out there. Often, but not always we are sick and/or poor due to something we have or have not done. Bad handling of our money will make us poor. Bad handling of our emotions and thoughts will make us sick. Literally.

In some cases one may choose to live without in order to do what they feel God wants them to do. But I have never known for God to require a man to let his family starve. That does not mean there is not some tense times in learning to trust God and having Him supply in wonderful and awesome ways though. Many times there are needs in the body and the body is there to meet the needs when needed. Total dependency on others to support us continually I don't think is ever in God's plan. Even Paul had a "trade" and he used it when necessary. He also helped in taking up money for another church who had fallen into hard times. We don't see him having to do that for all the churches though or for the same church over and over and over again. The needs were short lived. It is good to learn to give and to receive when needed.


Regarding sickness I've started reading a book called "A More Excellent Way" by Dr. Henry W. Wright. Some good information in it.
The Jerusalem church of peter, James, and John were poor that is why Paul got them Gentile money, 2 Cor 8-9, so were the Macedonians, 2 Cor 8, poverty.
 
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hislegacy

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How did Paul afford from his own accounts the payments needed for the run away slave?

How did Jesus and the disciples have enough cash to buy dinner for 5,000 men plus women and children.
 
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GoldenKingGaze

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How did Jesus and the disciples have enough cash to buy dinner for 5,000 men plus women and children.
The 5000 were fed with miraculous dividing of loaves and fish. But Paul was in prison and referred to his bank account to pay for the slave.
 
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Frogster

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Since this thread is about profiting off ministry, and that is the foundation that keeps the engine going, here are some hard facts, how Paul, and those with him worked, not to burden people, or put obstacles like greed, out there to hurt his ministry.


Here are the verses about Paul and others, and working.



Working apostles... Watchman Nee said, the apostles did not go around begging, they had faith. Paul did not want to burden the church.


Paul, Timothy, Titus, Barnabas, Silas, Priscila and Aquilla, working, while Paul was being beat up all the time, and bringing the gospel to the world. Is pastor busier than Paul?

1 Thess 2:9 For you remember, brothers, our labor and toil: we worked night and day, that we might not be a burden to any of you, while we proclaimed to you the gospel of God.



2 Thess 3:8 nor did we eat anyone's bread without paying for it, but with toil and labor we worked night and day, that we might not be a burden to any of you.


Said to Elders. Acts 20:33, said to elders, I coveted no one's silver or gold or apparel. 34 You yourselves know that these hands ministered to my necessities and to those who were with me. 35 In all things I have shown you that by working hard in this way we must help the weak and remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he himself said, ‘It is more blessed to give than to receive.’”

Acts 18:3 and because he was of the same trade he stayed with them and worked, for they were tentmakers by trade


1 Cor 4:12 and we labor, working with our own hands. When reviled, we bless; when persecuted, we endure;

1 Cor 9:6 Or is it only Barnabas and I who have no right to refrain from working for a living?

2 Cor 6:5 beatings, imprisonments, riots, labors, sleepless nights, hunger;

2 Cor 11:23 Are they servants of Christ? I am a better one—I am talking like a madman—with far greater labors, far more imprisonments, with countless beatings, and often near death.

2 Cor 11:27 in toil and hardship, through many a sleepless night, in hunger and thirst, often without food, in cold and exposure.


Gee…I don’t want your money…CHILDREN DON’T SAVE FOR THE PARENTS, BUT TODAY, PASTOR HAS IT ALL BACKWARDS! There is the burden word again, Paul did not want to burden people.


2 Cor 12:14 Here for the third time I am ready to come to you. And I will not be a burden, for I seek not what is yours (possessions) but you. For children are not obligated to save up for their parents, but parents for their children.

And in the place he did speak of receiving funds, which was not often at all, he was courteous, and reticent about getting helped, certainly this is no legalistic tithing teaching here.


Phil 4:11, not out of need did he speak, he kept that to himself, going hungry leaning on grace, before asking.

In Phil 4:17 "I don’t seek it", and he called it a gift, not extraction, and he did not go around "seeking".

17 Not that I seek the gift, but I seek the fruit that increases to your credit


And the little help he got, he felt like it was robbery, because he really didn't even want that.

2 Cor 11:8 I robbed other churches by accepting support from them in order to serve you

Yup, Paul wanted people to work, seen here too. Then help others, like he told the elders in Acts 20, "more blessed to give', in 20:35 quoting the Lord. Elders, church people, everyone was the same all should work. lol!

Eph 4:28 Let the thief no longer steal, but rather let him labor, doing honest work with his own hands, so that he may have something to share with anyone in need.


Paul cared about the saints, the people, not himself, he was not a tithe extractor, like so many today, the gospel peddlers of 2 Cor 2:17, or those of 1 Tim 6:5, they think it is a money making business.



Romans 12:13
Contribute to the needs of the saints and seek to show hospitality


Peter said in 1 Peter 5, elders can't be greedy, likewise Paul said that in 1 Tim 3, and Titus 1 also.
 
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hislegacy

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The 5000 were fed with miraculous dividing of loaves and fish. But Paul was in prison and referred to his bank account to pay for the slave.

When Jesus told the 12 to feed the 5,000 plus woman and children they asked Him if He wanted them to pay 18,000 in today's dollars to buy food for them.

They didn't say they didn't have the funds to do it.
 
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Viren

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Luke 16:9

"I tell you, use worldly wealth to gain friends for yourselves, so that when it is gone, you will be welcomed into eternal dwellings."

The gospel says time and time again not to put trust in riches because it's unstable. Those that look for security in money are likely to be pierced with many griefs.
 
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