Prosperity and Health teaching?

[GoldenKingGaze]

Good day, I have encountered the prosperity and health teaching, or Gospel since 1991. I liked some of it. I was also taught the remnant of old Catholic to be sick is special and to be poor is close to God. I was not so free. I was pushed around by my father and my uncles but there was the more reasonable Full Gospel preachers and would you believe my WOF parish priest.

I believe now in independence that healing and prosperity can be good. God promises in Jeremiah 11:12-14 that he wants prosper us. And Paul wrote, even as your soul prospers. I believe it is meant to be spirit, soul and body. Countries with a justice basis prosper compared to others in Asia and Africa. Some of us seek the kingdom and justice. Most would prefer to die rather than serve Nazism, pagan imperialism, communism or terrorism.

For a heart set of God, I think the sky is the limit in money, and Christians could well do with words of knowledge and be entrepreneurs.

Healing means peace in soul and body and simply life for some people. Medicine is the noble profession.

I think prosperity in then taking it easy and enjoying the money and being taken away from hands on, compassion and empathy is a poor option. And there are worse extremes. Money can become too important to a ministry.

I think for such as KCM owning a well working jet, which is used for ministry is good like a church bus. Taking it out for a hunting trip is ok, the church knows that's what he does.

Benny Hinn needs a house with a chapel in it and needs security for his family from the disagreeable ones. I suspect he could do with more moderation. Not sure.

Gordon D Fee describes the health and wealth Gospel as a disease. I can see that there are rough edges in that Gospel. I am wondering what you forum members think and feel about this?

I need healing and have begun to receive it.

I need money because of the above. I found some prosperity teaching pointless and fruitless, leading around in circles, impracticable and it makes no sense. I gave up watching it. I am not as confident in Pastor Benny and Pastor Kenneth because of these teachings, mainly from their ministry guests. It even takes away from good prosperity teaching. Practicable wisdom and knowledge and self discipline, having a dream and vision. Like the Great American Dream.

I believe we can ask for words of knowledge for Christian business, witty inventions, and even for the vision statement. To know friend from foe and the dangers and opportunities.

Money can be spent on pilgrimage or on the poor.

Being poor is bad for health and poses dangers in physical security, makes getting married harder. The bottom line, you can lose your peace and happiness. We need be shrewd and wise and have savings... what do you think?

 

[Alithis]

what is prosperity .

it is perceptional on the desires of the heart .

for me (my present perception of what it means)
-if i am well in spirit and body and have eaten food ..
-if i am cool when the sun is very hot and warm when the wind is biting cold and dry when the bitter rains fall..
Then .I consider myself to be among the richest in the world .
but i am only prosperous if i am able to multiply these things to some one who does not have them .. for then my spirit is producing fruits to the good of others ..for is that not the purpose of a fruit that it may be freely taken and used by another ?
if i have 3 coats 5 loaves of bread and my brother has none .. that is not prosperity, that is injustice ,that is miserly ,that is the ones who cross the proverbial road to avoid the Samaritan.

 

[Blain]

The prosperity gospel is against scripture. yes God does want us to be blessed and prosper but it almost never comes without a trial and test of our faith. jesus promised us ppl would hate us for following him that we would face trouble and hardships if a preacher is teaching you the prosperity gospel then he isn't teaching the gospel Jesus taught.

besides in my hardest times when my faith was being shaken bent and twisted this was when I grew in him the most when I became stronger in him the most and when he and I became closer the most

 

[Frogster]

Paul was not rich.

 

[CGL1023]

Recall that 'we are the head and not the tail;above and not beneath...' We Christians should have, as a goal to be prosperous enough to make interest free loans, pay a significant bill or a rent/mortgage payment for a brother, assist in spreading the Gospel like sending a case of bibles to a foreign land. There are at least 4 billion (a big, but random, number) ways that people with extra money can bless other believers and lift up God in the process. See Mt 5:16. Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

On the other hand, if a believer acquires a lot of money and lets it stack up in his bank account or brags about the new, bigger house that he is building in a view lot, then God is not hugely honored. God wants the excess money we have to be put to work in the Kingdom; that is a primary reason to bless us financially. The idea is summarized in Deuteronomy 8:18. But you shall [earnestly] remember the Lord your God, for it is He Who gives you power to get wealth, that He may establish His covenant which He swore to your fathers, as it is this day. (AMP)

 

[RDKirk]

Recall that 'we are the head and not the tail;above and not beneath...' We Christians should have, as a goal to be prosperous enough to make interest free loans, pay a significant bill or a rent/mortgage payment for a brother, assist in spreading the Gospel like sending a case of bibles to a foreign land. There are at least 4 billion (a big, but random, number) ways that people with extra money can bless other believers and lift up God in the process. See Mt 5:16. Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

On the other hand, if a believer acquires a lot of money and lets it stack up in his bank account or brags about the new, bigger house that he is building in a view lot, then God is not hugely honored. God wants the excess money we have to be put to work in the Kingdom; that is a primary reason to bless us financially. The idea is summarized in Deuteronomy 8:18. But you shall [earnestly] remember the Lord your God, for it is He Who gives you power to get wealth, that He may establish His covenant which He swore to your fathers, as it is this day. (AMP)

That is all true.

John wrote to a man named Gaius:

Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth. -- 3 John 2

Then John went on for the next half of the letter speaking to Gaius about generosity.

Jesus gave His basic economic theory for the Body of Christ in Luke 12. He explained that we will each get a day's supply. He explained that it was foolish to think that if we get an excess it's for us to hoard for ourselves. He then explained that if we have excess, it's a stewardship to be used for the benefit of His other servants.

In 2 Corinthians 8, Paul puts a sharper point on it:

Our desire is not that others might be relieved while you are hard pressed, but that there might be equality. At the present time your plenty will supply what they need, so that in turn their plenty will supply what you need. The goal is equality, as it is written: “The one who gathered much did not have too much, and the one who gathered little did not have too little.”

 

[Blain]

I intend to prosper very much so indeed but not the things of this world.

 

[WoundedDeep]

The prosperity Gospel is against EVERY SINGLE teaching of Jesus Christ. Those who preach such a gospel (which is no gospel at all) will be severely judged.

How can a preacher preach that God will bless His people with worldly gains and mammon when Jesus Christ, the Son of God, God Incarnate, has not a place to lay His head when He ministered on earth? How can a preacher say God will bless people, even if they are greedy after financial prosperity, when Jesus said you cannot serve both God and mammon? It was the DEVIL who offered Jesus the world, asking Him to bow down to him. It was the DEVIL who encourages people to seek after worldly prosperity at the expense of true riches which are in heaven.

Avoid those prosperity preachers who according to the Gospel "are depraved and deprived of the truth, who imagine that godliness is a way to material gain." (1 Timothy 6) "Woe to them! They have taken the way of Cain; they have rushed for profit into Balaam’s error; they have been destroyed in Korah’s rebellion. These people are blemishes at your love feasts, eating with you without the slightest qualm—shepherds who feed only themselves. They are clouds without rain, blown along by the wind; autumn trees, without fruit and uprooted—twice dead. They are wild waves of the sea, foaming up their shame; wandering stars, for whom blackest darkness has been reserved forever." (Jude 1)

Those who seek after material gains, Paul writes sternly in warnings:

But those who want to be rich fall into temptation, a trap, and many foolish and harmful desires, which plunge people into ruin and destruction. For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil, and by craving it, some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pains. (1 Timothy 6)

 

[Alithis]

Good day, I have encountered the prosperity and health teaching, or Gospel since 1991. I liked some of it. I was also taught the remnant of old Catholic to be sick is special and to be poor is close to God. I was not so free. I was pushed around by my father and my uncles but there was the more reasonable Full Gospel preachers and would you believe my WOF parish priest.

I believe now in independence that healing and prosperity can be good. God promises in Jeremiah 11:12-14 that he wants prosper us. And Paul wrote, even as your soul prospers. I believe it is meant to be spirit, soul and body. Countries with a justice basis prosper compared to others in Asia and Africa. Some of us seek the kingdom and justice. Most would prefer to die rather than serve Nazism, pagan imperialism, communism or terrorism.

For a heart set of God, I think the sky is the limit in money, and Christians could well do with words of knowledge and be entrepreneurs.

Healing means peace in soul and body and simply life for some people. Medicine is the noble profession.

I think prosperity in then taking it easy and enjoying the money and being taken away from hands on, compassion and empathy is a poor option. And there are worse extremes. Money can become too important to a ministry.

I think for such as KCM owning a well working jet, which is used for ministry is good like a church bus. Taking it out for a hunting trip is ok, the church knows that's what he does.

Benny Hinn needs a house with a chapel in it and needs security for his family from the disagreeable ones. I suspect he could do with more moderation. Not sure.

Gordon D Fee describes the health and wealth Gospel as a disease. I can see that there are rough edges in that Gospel. I am wondering what you forum members think and feel about this?

I need healing and have begun to receive it.

I need money because of the above. I found some prosperity teaching pointless and fruitless, leading around in circles, impracticable and it makes no sense. I gave up watching it. I am not as confident in Pastor Benny and Pastor Kenneth because of these teachings, mainly from their ministry guests. It even takes away from good prosperity teaching. Practicable wisdom and knowledge and self discipline, having a dream and vision. Like the Great American Dream.

I believe we can ask for words of knowledge for Christian business, witty inventions, and even for the vision statement. To know friend from foe and the dangers and opportunities.

Money can be spent on pilgrimage or on the poor.

Being poor is bad for health and poses dangers in physical security, makes getting married harder. The bottom line, you can lose your peace and happiness. We need be shrewd and wise and have savings... what do you think?

may i ask why you bracketed this together with "health" ?..they are quite differing topics

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

In Pentecostal and Charismatic circles Alithis, Gordon Fee is an academic of renown. He breaks through an otherwise cessationsist dominated academic world of theologians. He wrote a book called The Disease of the Health and Wealth Gospel.

The Pentecostals have broken through into the academic world and since 1906, have revived Biblical concepts like, salvation, healing, deliverance, and more controversially, prosperity. Also restoration.

So WOF preachers would preach healing and prosperity. Gordon Fee helps because of his works on the Holy Spirit in Paul's letters and because of his strong points about the gift of tongues. Although I think prosperity of another definition is a very good thing.

WoundedDeep, Jesus mission was unique, and not all must follow a similar mission style and have not a place to rest the head. Look at for example the early church fathers, who managed presbyteries.

Sure we must not serve Mammon, but once the heart is committed to Jesus, we should have all we need to live well and serve. In the wisdom books it is written, that I have not too little that I curse you, not too much that I forget you. And Solomon had gold.

Paul the apostle regarding the run away slave, was understanding and had enough money in his account, to spare some for his expenses.

The ancient Christians shared their wealth, but we no longer can do this.

The tither has a promise of blessing I think it is found in Habbakuk.

If we look at the evangelists in Africa, they need millions of dollars, but for each dollar given, boast, one convert.

If we live in poverty, we put our family at risk of starving, getting sick, maybe without being able to afford medicine. We can be attacked, and only have the police to rely on, we can lose our children. They have trouble affording the necessities for getting married. Even children must be given up for adoption. That is not wholeness or peace, and brings sadness and insecurity.

Imagine an ancient Roman Christian man losing his children to slavery! Is that what Jesus expected him to risk?

We should not rely on wealth for security, but not give up our day job and live by faith, were it possible, to be spiritual. Money and material are part of God's plan for wholeness and security.

Two things help conversion. Being young and open minded, and being unattached to Mammon and this world. Like this, I and many others were reached for repentance to Christ.

I of myself personally, If I were a millionaire, I'd spend my money on a safe car, a good house for prayers..., go on pilgrimage to revivals and the Holy Land, study theology and ministry, do the school of the heart, attend church by car Sunday and midweek, give offering for evangelists, eat healthy food, exercise and honour my parents. Money would be my tool, and the Trinity, my God.

I would also have to spend time making sure I had money increasing or sustained rather than dwindling, so that I would not go broke and get sick or live in poverty or die from the end result of geriatric and lack of wealth conditions.

 

[Alive_Again]

I personally believe when people say the phrase "Health and wealth", they have in their mind some off-balance doctrine that leads the sheep empty and hoping in vanity and the preacher in a shiny Rolls.

People talk about the "prosperity gospel" as a collection of scripture crafted into the above. The gospel they readily criticize doesn't exist. There's no "creed" for a prosperity gospel, so whatever is in their mind is what's wrong.

But if you want to look at the scripture, (as you probably know), ALL the Word of God is true. People will take up one passage to seemingly dismiss many others speaking of wonderful material and physical blessings and that is a warped approach to the truth. Really, it's holding the truth in unrighteousness.

So if we take passages that say that God is teaching, building up, pruning, refining, conforming believers to the image of Jesus, then the importance of material wealth will be a pursuit of the world (not believers). Yet it takes money to do what God wants to do on the earth.

But if you can mix in "On earth as it is in Heaven" with the above, then there is a version of Christianity that can contain rich financial blessing, if you can handle it.That's the key because God's not into covetousness.

I believe if you can pass God's tests and serve with Him on this earth as a son, that there's no limit to what you can receive or steward in His name and for HIS glory; even as a powerful witness.

What if God told New Covenant believers about to be escorted into their Canaan Land (flowing with milk and honey), that all they needed was the Manna, and they'd be grateful!

I want to do a plug for the most balanced teaching on Kingdom finance I've ever been privileged to hear. It's from Gary Carpenter. Gary actually did his pastor Dave Roberson's message on praying in the spirit (for many hours) and developed his spiritual ear (the key to prospering, plus the doing of course). With great tenacity driving his truck over the long haul, he'd continue to pray. Then God would train him to get a pad and a pen and write down what he would hear. Man! You can tell it's God!

Although he didn't enter into this with the angle of finding out about money, God eventually began to deal with him (as a teacher) on the subject of money and gave him revelation on some misunderstood (even abused) passages. You can give and it will be given to you, but your provision will be coming to you by grace (not your giving). The more YOU get in the way with your (well intended fleshly) works, the more YOU will be getting in the way of God.

Hear what He said about tithing, but balance that with being a liberal giver (with no fear). It takes some training. God trains you to learn that you live by every Word that proceeds from God. Then He moves you out of the "Manna stage" into your God given inheritance. As a son, that's where it has to come from.

One more thing, you'll have to remember that it won't be because of your cleverness that you'll prosper (remember what God told the Israelites). It will still take hearing and obedience, but all of that gold is in there for the taking. No point in being offended because God gave it to Adam as well.

All of Gary's teachings on finance are on his website (free mp3 downloads), including all of the interpretations (from the tongues) on www.garycarpenter.com

If you can handle getting out of your box, stick your toe in the water over there and get blessed by a fresh revelation of grace.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Strange how people criticize prosperity while sitting at a very expensive computer, in a very comfortable home with furniture, TV, nice car, plenty of food... etc. etc.

Hint hint....
YOU are prosperous or you would not be here!
Throw away all your goods, put on rags, and live in a cave... and then you can preach poverty. Til then, just thank Him for the good things He has given you!!
Otherwise it is just kind of hard to take you seriously.

 

[RDKirk]

So, speaking as a Christian, what does "prosperity" mean?

Is it for individuals to be prosperous just for themselves ("I have faith, therefore I am prosperous--if you had faith, then you'd be prosperous, too") or is it for the entire Body to be prosperous?

How does what we see and know of Jesus explain what "prosperous" means to Him?

How does what we see in scripture of the early Church indicate what "prosperous" meant to the men and women who knew Jesus personally and had travelled and lived with Him?

Scripture itself gives us the analogy of the Church as an interconnected body. What are we to make of that analogy with regard to prosperity? If one part of the body is prosperous, is that just for the sake of that part? If the stomach receives food, does that "prosperity" go nowhere else in the body?

 

[Alive_Again]

Very good questions.

So, speaking as a Christian, what does "prosperity" mean?

Is it for individuals to be prosperous just for themselves ("I have faith, therefore I am prosperous--if you had faith, then you'd be prosperous, too") or is it for the entire Body to be prosperous?

Ah, the question of motives. It's not just for your own behalf. The Word speaks about believers having a prosperous habitation, a prosperous family, etc.

How does what we see and know of Jesus explain what "prosperous" means to Him?

Jesus had every need met (sometimes supernaturally). Can you imagine being able to rebuke the wind and sea, cause the dead to be raised, multiply loaves and fishes? How about being able to ask and receive? He said it, so prosperity for the church must be a lot more than what we've seen.

I personally believe that (for a believer) to prosper, you must walk in the Spirit (according to the plan of God) = abide in Him.

The whole "faith" thing is necessary to please and an important method to receive. Learning how to do that is vital. It's for everyone. We can't take out the walk out of the process.

How does what we see in scripture of the early Church indicate what "prosperous" meant to the men and women who knew Jesus personally and had travelled and lived with Him?

My personal opinion is that the early church (like the church of today) was and is learning how to walk in the Spirit. It's responding to revelation. Today we have more revelation than any other generation

One very valuable thing we learned from Kenneth Hagin, the more you walk in the plan of God, the more fruit you'll bear. When you've got the divine nature flowing and you're hearing, then you're receiving and have faith for whatever it is you need to do. Since we must mix faith with the promises (and they don't all just 'fall on you'), then deliberately doing what it takes to have His Word in your heart in abundance is vital (for everyone).

Part of the revelation that's been coming is God's desire to prosper you and enable you to have what you need to do your call. If you've got a good piece of you being concerned about your life here, you're distracted from the Heavenly kingdom. We need to be settled on these things. Honest questions are important.

If people are walking in holiness and using their gifts and walking in unity, then stuff gets added to you. I believe that if we have not because we ask not, then at some point, we're not going to have what we need unless we ask. To ask means that you need faith, so to learn how to get it and exercise it is vital for everyone.

I do believe though that God has been specifically raising up people to be stewards for the kingdom, to be able to receive large amounts of money and direct it for kingdom purposes.

Can you imagine what the church would be like to walk in love and actually be holy; to walk in the strength of unity; to learn the lessons of a supernatural walk of faith, having because they're asking and believing?

Many things seem like a waste of time because we often lack continuity. We learn things that we know that we know, but sometimes walking it out is inconsistent. But these lessons are for a purpose and when the big ignition comes with purifying fire, then a lot of ruling and reigning is going to happen, and it won't be a thing to fear. People will be able to exercise their faith, working with revelation, asking (mostly for others) and watching it come to fruition for the glory of God.

 

[Frogster]

The church of Peter, James, and John were so poor, they needed the gentile money that was collected in 2 Cor 8-9.

The Macedonians of 2 Cor 8 were in poverty, i guess they did not know they could be rich!


Paul was not rich either.


gee....

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

Jesus is the head of the body, and multiplied loaves and fishes to excess. The Hebrew church was unfortunate, because some of their land was confiscated. Macedonia may have been going through a poor rainy season, like Ethiopia, and suffered losses, but that is not God's plan. Paul paid for the run away slave's costs from his own account. Being poor is often a fact of life, it can make being spiritual easier, but is not God's plan. Slavery was not God's plan.

I wish that you may prosper, even as your soul prospers. I know the plans I have for you says the Lord, prosperity and not disaster...
May I have not too little that I curse you and not too much that I forget you.
I will restore the years the locust has eaten.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Become a Christian prepper!
In the coming depression people will find out what it truly means to be impoverished and what it means to prosper.

 

[RDKirk]

I do believe though that God has been specifically raising up people to be stewards for the kingdom, to be able to receive large amounts of money and direct it for kingdom purposes.

Can you imagine what the church would be like to walk in love and actually be holy; to walk in the strength of unity; to learn the lessons of a supernatural walk of faith, having because they're asking and believing?

Many things seem like a waste of time because we often lack continuity. We learn things that we know that we know, but sometimes walking it out is inconsistent. But these lessons are for a purpose and when the big ignition comes with purifying fire, then a lot of ruling and reigning is going to happen, and it won't be a thing to fear. People will be able to exercise their faith, working with revelation, asking (mostly for others) and watching it come to fruition for the glory of God.

I think somewhere in your post there is truth spoken, but it's buried under so much prosperity gospel rhetoric that carries so much prosperity gospel baggage that it's hard to determine.

To be sure, certain Christians are specifically gifted to be financial providers in the Body of Christ. Luke points out some by name among Jesus' coterie, and Paul says so explicitly in Romans 9. This is all a matter of the various members of the Body operating in accordance with their designated functions.

 

[RDKirk]

Become a Christian prepper!
In the coming depression people will find out what it truly means to be impoverished and what it means to prosper.

That would be a matter of taking that particular page out of the Mormon handbook.

Here is a point: The year prior to Hurrican Katrina, FEMA and the Louisiana government actually had an emergency response exercise using that exact scenario: A Cat-5 hurricane striking New Orleans and breaking the levees.

The result of that exercise was a deliberate decision by FEMA and Louisiana not even to attempt a government-assisted evacuation in such a case...remember that was a year before the hurricane actually occurred. The state officials prepared an informational CD that they released to charity agencies and religious organizations telling them essentially "you're on your own."

Only the Mormons prepared a response. They set up an evacuation plan very similar to military emergency deployment plans. They first identified the Mormon persons and numbers in the prospective disaster area and drew up those lists.

Then they identified their Mormon-owned means of transportation: People who owned vans and large cars, Mormon businesses with company vehicles, et cetera. They designated a specific ride for each Mormon in the area, who he would ride with and when and where after "H-Hour"--the time the local New Orleans Mormon leader ordered evacuation--they would meet to leave the area.

They also determined homes and properties owned by Mormons well outside the expected disaster area with capacity to take long-term guests, and specified for all the evacuees where they should go and who they should stay with. They did all this the year before the hurricane actually struck.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

Has anyone read Gordon Fee's book The Disease of the Health and Wealth Gospel?