Prosperity 102

[JimB]

Some Christians cannot handle material prosperity. Take my nephew for example. If he gets $1,000 he will always spend $2,000. He is approaching 30-years-old and there seems to be no cure. Money only exacerbates his problem; it never solves it. Why would God make him prosperous and financially damage his life even more than it is already damaged? Some folks just cannot handle prosperity.

~Jim

If the first step in an argument is wrong everything that follows is wrong.​

~C.S. Lewis, The Problem of Pain​

 

[importunity]

bug

 

[importunity]

Originally Posted by ARBITER01
Are these the words of a man seeking the riches of this world?,....



Since I did not say anything I just posted scripture,
Are you now calling the Holy Ghost inspired Word of God seeking riches?
Are you saying all these words written are seeking riches? Are you saying God is seeking riches?
What exactly are you saying sicne I did not say anything only posted Gods word?

Are you reading into things like I have been watching you do on this thread?

Do you have a problem with money? If so get rid of it.

 

[ARBITER01]

Originally Posted by ARBITER01
Are these the words of a man seeking the riches of this world?,....



Since I did not say anything I just posted scripture,
Are you now calling the Holy Ghost inspired Word of God seeking riches?
Are you saying all these words written are seeking riches? Are you saying God is seeking riches?
What exactly are you saying sicne I did not say anything only posted Gods word?

Are you reading into things like I have been watching you do on this thread?

Do you have a problem with money? If so get rid of it.

It was a simple question.

Do we see Paul seeking the riches of this world? What was his ambition in life when we read statements from him like that?

 

[importunity]

It was a simple question.

Do we see Paul seeking the riches of this world? What was his ambition in life when we read statements from him like that?

Can you actually understand that people believe the prosperity message and are not chasing riches?

Just like there are people that don’t believe the prosperity message and are chasing riches.

Just because someone believes in the prosperity message does not mean someone is chasing riches. That is an assumption on your part. That is reading into things.

What you don’t know is the condition of the heart, but you are defiantly making some accusations concerning the conditions. The conditions of my heart have not been revealed to you. Because if they have you would not even imply some of the things you imply to me.

I do agree with chasing riches, people that do are deceived. Chasing riches and the things of this world choke out the Word of God.

That does not mean God does not want riches and wealth in your house. It just means you need to keep your priorities right.

 

[ARBITER01]

Can you actually understand that people believe the prosperity message and are not chasing riches?

Just like there are people that don’t believe the prosperity message and are chasing riches.

Just because someone believes in the prosperity message does not mean someone is chasing riches. That is an assumption on your part. That is reading into things.

What you don’t know is the condition of the heart, but you are defiantly making some accusations concerning the conditions. The conditions of my heart have not been revealed to you. Because if they have you would not even imply some of the things you imply to me.

I do agree with chasing riches, people that do are deceived. Chasing riches and the things of this world choke out the Word of God.

That does not mean God does not want riches and wealth in your house. It just means you need to keep your priorities right.

I stated a simple question on here, was it directed at you alone? Why are you getting defensive about it?

 

[importunity]

I stated a simple question on here, was it directed at you alone? Why are you getting defensive about it?

I answered your post, can you answer mine?

Originally Posted by importunity
Can you actually understand that people believe the prosperity message and are not chasing riches?

Just like there are people that don’t believe the prosperity message and are chasing riches.

Just because someone believes in the prosperity message does not mean someone is chasing riches. That is an assumption on your part. That is reading into things.

What you don’t know is the condition of the heart, but you are defiantly making some accusations concerning the conditions. The conditions of my heart have not been revealed to you. Because if they have you would not even imply some of the things you imply to me.

I do agree with chasing riches, people that do are deceived. Chasing riches and the things of this world choke out the Word of God.

That does not mean God does not want riches and wealth in your house. It just means you need to keep your priorities right.

 

[ARBITER01]

I answered your post, can you answer mine?

Originally Posted by importunity
Can you actually understand that people believe the prosperity message and are not chasing riches?

Just like there are people that don’t believe the prosperity message and are chasing riches.

Just because someone believes in the prosperity message does not mean someone is chasing riches. That is an assumption on your part. That is reading into things.

What you don’t know is the condition of the heart, but you are defiantly making some accusations concerning the conditions. The conditions of my heart have not been revealed to you. Because if they have you would not even imply some of the things you imply to me.

I do agree with chasing riches, people that do are deceived. Chasing riches and the things of this world choke out the Word of God.

That does not mean God does not want riches and wealth in your house. It just means you need to keep your priorities right.

Well,.. you didn't really answer my question, you just made a batch of statements that revolved around it somehow. Actually, the question really wasn't directed at you, but it sure did affect you for some reason.

To try and answer your question or questions,.. I don't know what I'm suppose to answer you without my response being negative.

 

[importunity]

3 John 2
Beloved, I pray that you may prosper in all things and be in health, just as your soul prospers.
NKJV

Josh 1:7-8
Only be strong and very courageous, that you may observe to do according to all the law which Moses My servant commanded you; do not turn from it to the right hand or to the left, that you may prosper wherever you go. 8 This Book of the Law shall not depart from your mouth, but you shall meditate in it day and night, that you may observe to do according to all that is written in it. For then you will make your way prosperous, and then you will have good success.
NKJV


Ps 1:3
Blessed is the man Who walks not in the counsel of the ungodly,Nor stands in the path of sinners,Nor sits in the seat of the scornful; 2 But his delight is in the law of the LORD,And in His law he meditates day and night. 3 He shall be like a tree Planted by the rivers of water,That brings forth its fruit in its season,Whose leaf also shall not wither;And whatever he does shall prosper .
NKJV

Deut 8:18
"And you shall remember the LORD your God, for it is He who gives you power to get wealth , that He may establish His covenant which He swore to your fathers, as it is this day.
NKJV

Ps 112:3
Praise the LORD! Blessed is the man who fears the LORD,Who delights greatly in His commandments.
2 His descendants will be mighty on earth; The generation of the upright will be blessed. 3 Wealth and riches will be in his house,And his righteousness endures forever.
NKJV

Prov 8:19-21
19 My fruit is better than gold, yes, than fine gold,
And my revenue than choice silver.
20 I traverse the way of righteousness,
In the midst of the paths of justice,
21 That I may cause those who love me to inherit wealth,
That I may fill their treasuries.
NKJV


Eccl 5:19
9 As for every man to whom God has given riches and wealth , and given him power to eat of it, to receive his heritage and rejoice in his labor — this is the gift of God.
NKJV

2 Chron 1:11-12

11 Then God said to Solomon: "Because this was in your heart, and you have not asked riches or wealth or honor or the life of your enemies, nor have you asked long life — but have asked wisdom and knowledge for yourself, that you may judge My people over whom I have made you king — 12 wisdom and knowledge are granted to you; and I will give you riches and wealth and honor, such as none of the kings have had who were before you, nor shall any after you have the like."
NKJV

Prov 3:13-16
13 Happy is the man who finds wisdom,And the man who gains understanding; 14 For her proceeds are better than the profits of silver,And her gain than fine gold. 15 She is more precious than rubies,And all the things you may desire cannot compare with her. 16 Length of days is in her right hand,In her left hand riches and honor.
NKJV

2 Cor 8:9
9 For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though He was rich, yet for your sakes He became poor, that you through His poverty might become rich.
NKJV

this is what I posted

Are these the words of a man seeking the riches of this world?,....

this was your response

Originally Posted by ARBITER01
Are these the words of a man seeking the riches of this world?,....


Since I did not say anything I just posted scripture,
Are you now calling the Holy Ghost inspired Word of God seeking riches?
Are you saying all these words written are seeking riches? Are you saying God is seeking riches?
What exactly are you saying sicne I did not say anything only posted Gods word?

Are you reading into things like I have been watching you do on this thread?

Do you have a problem with money? If so get rid of it.

this was my response

It was a simple question.

Do we see Paul seeking the riches of this world? What was his ambition in life when we read statements from him like that?

this was your resonse

Can you actually understand that people believe the prosperity message and are not chasing riches?

Just like there are people that don’t believe the prosperity message and are chasing riches.

Just because someone believes in the prosperity message does not mean someone is chasing riches. That is an assumption on your part. That is reading into things.

What you don’t know is the condition of the heart, but you are defiantly making some accusations concerning the conditions. The conditions of my heart have not been revealed to you. Because if they have you would not even imply some of the things you imply to me.

I do agree with chasing riches, people that do are deceived. Chasing riches and the things of this world choke out the Word of God.

That does not mean God does not want riches and wealth in your house. It just means you need to keep your priorities right.

this was my response

I stated a simple question on here, was it directed at you alone? Why are you getting defensive about it?

your resopse

I answered your post, can you answer mine?

Originally Posted by importunity
Can you actually understand that people believe the prosperity message and are not chasing riches?

Just like there are people that don’t believe the prosperity message and are chasing riches.

Just because someone believes in the prosperity message does not mean someone is chasing riches. That is an assumption on your part. That is reading into things.

What you don’t know is the condition of the heart, but you are defiantly making some accusations concerning the conditions. The conditions of my heart have not been revealed to you. Because if they have you would not even imply some of the things you imply to me.

I do agree with chasing riches, people that do are deceived. Chasing riches and the things of this world choke out the Word of God.

That does not mean God does not want riches and wealth in your house. It just means you need to keep your priorities right.

my resopnse

Well,.. you didn't really answer my question, you just made a batch of statements that revolved around it somehow. Actually, the question really wasn't directed at you, but it sure did affect you for some reason.

To try and answer your question or questions,.. I don't know what I'm suppose to answer you without my response being negative.

your response


So by reading just the few responses I guess it was you and I having the discussion. So that would lead me to believe you are addressing me, because I am addressing you.

Now that being said, Paul never was seeking riches, what I was showing you was the fact that even though people believe in prosperity teachings does not mean they are seeking riches.

Maybe I can say it this way. I am not seeking riches but riches are seeking me

 

[ARBITER01]

dup

 

[ARBITER01]

Mine was a simple question, and no, it wasn't directed at you when I made it.

It was a simple thought provoking question,..

Is this the statement of a man seeking riches?

Phil 3:10 (ASV) that I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, becoming conformed unto his death;

 

[importunity]

Mine was a simple question, and no, it wasn't directed at you when I made it.

It was a simple thought provoking question,..

Is this the statement of a man seeking riches?

It sounds like a man seeking the kingdom of God and His righteousness.

 

[ARBITER01]

It sounds like a man seeking the kingdom of God and His righteousness.

Paul already had the kingdom of GOD and HIS rightousness within him, he was being conformed to the image of HIS Son.

He no longer sought to know Christ in the flesh.

 

[importunity]

Paul already had the kingdom of GOD and HIS rightousness within him, he was being conformed to the image of HIS Son.

He no longer sought to know Christ in the flesh.

Very good I should have not just blown you off with my answer, I apologize.


Phil 3:10

That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;

That I may know him - experimentally; not merely know the doctrine concerning Him: the aim of the "righteousness" (Phil 3:9). This verse resumes and explains "the excellency of the knowledge of Christ" (Phil 3:8). Believers are brought, not only to redemption, But to the Redeemer Himself.

The power of (flowing from) his resurrection - assuring believers of justification (Rom 4:25; 1 Cor 15:17): raising them up spiritually with Him, by virtue of identification with Him in this, as in all the acts of His redeeming work (Rom 6:4; Col 2:12; 3:1); and about to raise their bodies with His at His coming (Isa 26:19; 2 Cor 4:10-11). The Divine Spirit which raised Him from literal death is the same "power" which raises believers from spiritual death (Eph 1:19-20), and shall raise their bodies from literal death (Rom 8:11).

The fellowship of his sufferings - by identification with Him in His sufferings and death, by imputation; also, in actually bearing the cross laid on us, after His example, so 'filling up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ' (Col 1:24); and in the will to bear anything for His sake (Matt 10:38; 16:24; 2 Tim 2:11; 1 Peter 4:13). As He bore all our sufferings (Isa 53:4), so we participate in His.

Conformable unto his death - 'formed to the likeness of His death;' namely, by continued sufferings for His sake, and mortifying the carnal self (Rom 8:29; 1 Cor 15:31; 2 Cor 4:10-12; Gal 2:20).

 

[hislegacy]

Abram followed God the best he knew how and became the richest man in his country.

He gave the best of his flock, kept after God and in time his flock grew to the largest in the country.

He had enough house servants that he was able to take his house servants and over throw two kingdoms.

He wasn't poor.

Joseph - followed God the best he knew how, and in the end became the overseer of the Pharaohs wealth, making him number 2 in the richest kingdom of the world.

Moses followed God the best he knew how, and went from Pharaohs son to wandering the desert, but when he led the Children of Israel out of Egypt- the Bible says they plundered Egypt's wealth. In fact - they had enough rings and ear rings of gold, that they made a golden calf.

David followed God the best he knew how, and went from shepherd boy to the King of Israel - he had more power and mony than most kingdoms of the earth.

Solomon followed God the best he knew how and because he asked for wisdom God made him so wealthy that it took him seven days to display all his treasures in store houses to that little party of 1,000 friends.

Job followed God the best he knew how and went from a rich man, to one who suffered loss, but less than two years later, God not only accepted his repentance, but gave him twice the material and familial possessions he had.

I can go on - but I think you get the point.

The mistake in the prosperity message is that many times it focuses on monetary things instead of getting closer to God. That is the ditch one one side.

The ditch on the other side is the poverty gospel message.

The long and short of it, is this -

Being rich doesn't make you more spiritual.
Being rich doesn't mean you're closer to God.
Being rich is not a barometer of your spirituality.

Being poor or barley getting along, doesn't make you more spiritual.

Being poor or barley getting along, doesn't make you more spiritual.

Being poor or barley getting along, doesn't mean you're closer to God.

Being poor or barley getting along, is not a barometer of your spirituality.

Your relationship with God, and only your relationship with God determines those things.

God was not opposed to those people being incredibly wealthy - and neither am I.

 

[ARBITER01]

dup

 

[ARBITER01]

dup

 

[ARBITER01]

Very good I should have not just blown you off with my answer, I apologize.


Phil 3:10

That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;

That I may know him - experimentally; not merely know the doctrine concerning Him: the aim of the "righteousness" (Phil 3:9). This verse resumes and explains "the excellency of the knowledge of Christ" (Phil 3:8). Believers are brought, not only to redemption, But to the Redeemer Himself.

The power of (flowing from) his resurrection - assuring believers of justification (Rom 4:25; 1 Cor 15:17): raising them up spiritually with Him, by virtue of identification with Him in this, as in all the acts of His redeeming work (Rom 6:4; Col 2:12; 3:1); and about to raise their bodies with His at His coming (Isa 26:19; 2 Cor 4:10-11). The Divine Spirit which raised Him from literal death is the same "power" which raises believers from spiritual death (Eph 1:19-20), and shall raise their bodies from literal death (Rom 8:11).

The fellowship of his sufferings - by identification with Him in His sufferings and death, by imputation; also, in actually bearing the cross laid on us, after His example, so 'filling up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ' (Col 1:24); and in the will to bear anything for His sake (Matt 10:38; 16:24; 2 Tim 2:11; 1 Peter 4:13). As He bore all our sufferings (Isa 53:4), so we participate in His.

Conformable unto his death - 'formed to the likeness of His death;' namely, by continued sufferings for His sake, and mortifying the carnal self (Rom 8:29; 1 Cor 15:31; 2 Cor 4:10-12; Gal 2:20).

Yes exactly. Those are very good verse explanations.

My point in the question was what did Paul consider important to him? Paul at one point told us to emulate him, so what was his goal?

I for one do consider that to be like Jesus is the ultimate goal for any Christian. It supercedes anything we could want here in this life.

I do understand that people have other ambitions, but the scriptures do point us toward Jesus and the standard that He established, and that should be our focus.

 

[importunity]

Yes exactly. Those are very good verse explanations.

My point in the question was what did Paul consider important to him? Paul at one point told us to emulate him, so what was his goal?

I for one do consider that to be like Jesus is the ultimate goal for any Christian. It supercedes anything we could want here in this life.

I do understand that people have other ambitions, but the scriptures do point us toward Jesus and the standard that He established, and that should be our focus.

Agreed 100%.

 

[Girly3302]

The church I use to attend and was involved in the ministry in Asia use to teach this. The problem is that in the 13 years I attended not one person I know there was ever blessed with financial prosperity except the head pastor. Does the prosperity teaching only apply to Americans?