Priest gets heat for denying lesbian Communion at mother's funeral

jmc1214

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There are any number of news articles on this incident and while they don't fill in many of the details on the interaction between the priest and the daughter they do present some interesting background. There was, for example, an apology from the diocese with this comment:

“When questions arise about whether or not an individual should present themselves for communion, it is not the policy of the Archdiocese of Washington to publicly reprimand the person,”

There's a bit of dissembling here starting with the term reprimand. As I understand it, the daughter was denied communion, not publicly excoriated. Based on prior comments and actions by Archbishop Wuerl, however, it does appear to be the policy of the Archdiocese of Washington to give communion to anyone who asks for it and not enforce canon 915.

Other comments capture the nature of the dilemma the Church has created for herself.

A lifelong Catholic and former Catholic school teacher, Barbara says she hadn't even considered that her sexual orientation would be a problem with Father Marcel until she stepped forward to take communion.

There you have it: a lifelong Catholic was so badly catechized she didn't consider her sexual activities would be a problem. Actually, from her perspective that was perhaps a reasonable assumption inasmuch as (she claims) not to have been denied communion before.

This situation is not just appalling but is surely emblematic of much that has gone wrong with the Church in recent decades. I think the perspective most of the bishops have taken is perfectly summed up in a comment on this incident by a Methodist pastor who said: "When judgment trumps compassion the Gospel is lost."

Apparently the new great commandment is "Don't judge. Don't criticize. Don't stand for anything that makes people upset."

JMC
 
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MikeK

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A lifelong Catholic and former Catholic school teacher, Barbara says she hadn't even considered that her sexual orientation would be a problem with Father Marcel until she stepped forward to take communion.

There you have it: a lifelong Catholic was so badly catechized she didn't consider her sexual activities would be a problem.

Sexual orientation and sexual activities are not the same thing. We can strongly suspect that the woman is sexual active with her apparent girlfriend, but we do not know that to be true.
 
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Rhamiel

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Sexual orientation and sexual activities are not the same thing. We can strongly suspect that the woman is sexual active with her apparent girlfriend, but we do not know that to be true.
this seems like false charity, to ignore what is right infront of you in the name of "charity" is not being honest
her sexual orientation was not a problem that would have kept her from communion, but her sexual activities were
 
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MikeK

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this seems like false charity, to ignore what is right infront of you in the name of "charity" is not being honest
her sexual orientation was not a problem that would have kept her from communion, but her sexual activities were

I hadn't heard that they were having public sex or claiming to have had sexual contact with each other.

I don't think it's safe to assume that unmarried couples who live together are sexually active with each other. Most probably are, but that doesn't make me ready to conclude that they are unworthy of recieving the Eucharist without knowing more. Most men between the ages of 18 and 60masturbate with some rugularity, but I don't think that being a man aged 18-60 is cause to be denied the Eucharist either.
 
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benedictaoo

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Well, yes, one of the criterion for the refusal of communion is that the person's sin be manifest ... that is, it must be known and it appears that the woman in question resolved that point by showing up with her lesbian lover. You recognize that practicing homosexuals should not receive communion and the priest has the same understanding. If you want to make the point that others "obstinately persevering in manifest grave sin" should be refused communion I would agree with you, but the fact that the canon is not applied as widely as it should be says nothing about whether it was appropriately applied in this case.

JMC

so we should turn down every straight couple who comes up who is not married then.
 
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JacktheCatholic

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I hadn't heard that they were having public sex or claiming to have had sexual contact with each other.

I don't think it's safe to assume that unmarried couples who live together are sexually active with each other. Most probably are, but that doesn't make me ready to conclude that they are unworthy of recieving the Eucharist without knowing more. Most men between the ages of 18 and 60masturbate with some rugularity, but I don't think that being a man aged 18-60 is cause to be denied the Eucharist either.


Innocent until proven guilty. I agree.
 
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benedictaoo

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So not only don't you have proof, you keep accusing this woman and you don't even realise how low that is?

Classy.

exactly. and it wasn't okay to accuse Fr Corapi, member that?

But here's the thing... If any person goes to the priest saying they are having sex with their unmarried partner, that should be an issue. Why its so much more horrific that a lesbian does it, doesn't make sense.

Do the members of this forum seriously realize the amount of Catholics who go up, who are having sex outside of wed lock?

But we must keep up appearances and rule out the Lesbians.

If we are going to worry about scandal and what not- then we need to crack down on all sinners who go up.

Just like the lesbian's 5 year old child who was kicked out Kindergarten because of her mom's sins... yeah, okay, everybody else's parents in that school is on the up and up. (sarcasm)

Its the picking and choosing that drives me crazy and I brought an open scandalous situation to a parish priest once and to the archdiocese when he blew it off and I was blown off.

So make no mistake about it. the Church will pick and choose what scandal they find important.

My hats off to the priest for treating scandal seriously, but face it, that priest in one in a million who do and that is my frustration.
 
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benedictaoo

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I hadn't heard that they were having public sex or claiming to have had sexual contact with each other.

I don't think it's safe to assume that unmarried couples who live together are sexually active with each other. Most probably are, but that doesn't make me ready to conclude that they are unworthy of recieving the Eucharist without knowing more. Most men between the ages of 18 and 60masturbate with some rugularity, but I don't think that being a man aged 18-60 is cause to be denied the Eucharist either.

You want to know why I agree? because 18 years ago when I went to RCIA there was a Lesbian Unitarian converting to the Catholic faith because she had her son, a student there at the school and had him there for 5 or 6 years already. She was converting and when discussing "sins against nature" it was touched upon that this could be interpreted as homosexual activity.

She kept the whole matter private but we all knew she was a Lesbian, it was obvious.

After we had the first confession session with the associate pastor, she made a comment that she spoke with the priest and he said as long as nothing was happening between her and the live in, they were cool living together raising this kid and she could be Catholic.

And this priest is the priest who not long after, ran off with a female Baptist Chaplin he met at the hospital where he was the Catholic Chaplin... how do you like that?

and I know all this because these two, the priest who baptized me, mind you all, and the woman came into my work and I did the woman's hair and she told me all about the two of them living together across the lake, her being a Baptist minister and he and her were engaged. and this was a long time ago before Lesbians and gays were spotlighted. He left the priesthood BTW.

I seriously think we need to get over it. get over all of it. We have sinners in this Church, running this Church, members of this Church and we all scandalize one another and it is what it is.

This truly is a Church where we teach one thing but do another and that's why folks run to the press with stuff like this because we all know this stuff goes on day in and day out so why is one priest somewhere choosing to make an example?
 
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Fantine

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This priest had no way of knowing whether sexual activity had taken place between her and her roommate. I knew two lesbians who were religious and chaste. They lived together because they loved one another. They were chaste because they respected God's law.

He had no way of knowing whether she had been to confession or not (he certainly doesn't seem like the kind of understanding, non-judgmental priest someone struggling with her sexual orientation would choose as a confessor--unless she was a [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse].)

He was acting on assumptions.
 
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isshinwhat

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He had no way of knowing whether she had been to confession or not...

I agree, that's the kicker. But, perhaps the priest was privy to facts we don't have. It's difficult to discuss a specific occurrence with so many details missing and hypotheticals replacing them.
 
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JacktheCatholic

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This priest had no way of knowing whether sexual activity had taken place between her and her roommate. I knew two lesbians who were religious and chaste. They lived together because they loved one another. They were chaste because they respected God's law.

He had no way of knowing whether she had been to confession or not (he certainly doesn't seem like the kind of understanding, non-judgmental priest someone struggling with her sexual orientation would choose as a confessor--unless she was a [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse].)

He was acting on assumptions.

I think that we are also missing details regarding the priest as well. I think both the lesbian and priest should be treated innocent until found guilty. Otherwie, we are simply taking sides and using prejudice to decide. Just as we do not know the lesbian's heart and mind so too, we do not know why the priest acted as he did. We can imagine reasons for both side's innocense and so we should presume innocence.
 
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Tigg

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There are any number of news articles on this incident and while they don't fill in many of the details on the interaction between the priest and the daughter they do present some interesting background. There was, for example, an apology from the diocese with this comment:

“When questions arise about whether or not an individual should present themselves for communion, it is not the policy of the Archdiocese of Washington to publicly reprimand the person,”

There's a bit of dissembling here starting with the term reprimand. As I understand it, the daughter was denied communion, not publicly excoriated. Based on prior comments and actions by Archbishop Wuerl, however, it does appear to be the policy of the Archdiocese of Washington to give communion to anyone who asks for it and not enforce canon 915.

Other comments capture the nature of the dilemma the Church has created for herself.

A lifelong Catholic and former Catholic school teacher, Barbara says she hadn't even considered that her sexual orientation would be a problem with Father Marcel until she stepped forward to take communion.

There you have it: a lifelong Catholic was so badly catechized she didn't consider her sexual activities would be a problem. Actually, from her perspective that was perhaps a reasonable assumption inasmuch as (she claims) not to have been denied communion before.

This situation is not just appalling but is surely emblematic of much that has gone wrong with the Church in recent decades. I think the perspective most of the bishops have taken is perfectly summed up in a comment on this incident by a Methodist pastor who said: "When judgment trumps compassion the Gospel is lost."

Apparently the new great commandment is "Don't judge. Don't criticize. Don't stand for anything that makes people upset."

JMC

Agreed. Sad. Which in the end, will make the Church morally bankrupt.

"Apparently the new great commandment is "Don't judge. Don't criticize. Don't stand for anything that makes people upset." - by jmc1214
 
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Rhamiel

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This priest had no way of knowing whether sexual activity had taken place between her and her roommate. I knew two lesbians who were religious and chaste. They lived together because they loved one another. They were chaste because they respected God's law.

He had no way of knowing whether she had been to confession or not (he certainly doesn't seem like the kind of understanding, non-judgmental priest someone struggling with her sexual orientation would choose as a confessor--unless she was a [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse].)

He was acting on assumptions.

room mate? i thought the language called the two as "partners"
it was clear that they are in a sexual relationship
and really, it might be better to have a strong priest who is willing to tell people what is right and what is wrong, not these wishy washy men who should not be pastors
 
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Tigg

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MikeK

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Thank you so much for the rest or the real story. What a rotten thing to do. I dislike liars whose prime purpose is to hurt, to harm. I had better refrain from any more as I am mad. Thanks again

Where did you find the rest of the story? Certainly not from an anonymous source that contacted a webrag known for playing fast and loose with facts. Keep your eye on the diocese. They will make with the truth when and if they know enough to comment further.
 
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