Premarital Oral Sex

[ImperialPhantom]

How often do you feel regret for an action that you know was absolutely was right?
In some instances regret does have a lot to do with the "wrongness" of an action. There were plenty of times when I struggled with trying to reinforce boundaries because I knew there were problems with the relationship and it didn't appear that we were going to get married.

You can feel regret for doing something that's not wrong, absolutely. If you walk alone through a dark alley in New York City, and you get attacked by a mugger, you're going to regret walking through the alley. Does it make it wrong? No.

And the feeling-used example was not my situation. I broke up with my ex-bf. I regret having those intimate (not intercourse) memories because it was even harder to keep that break up permanent. We shared a lot physically and emotionally and I miss all of that even though the break up needed to happen. I regret not having more restraint because I wouldn't want my future bf/h engaging in that kind of activity with every gf. I was asking you and others to consider how a woman might feel, especially if she was pushed beyond the boundaries that she had wanted to keep. And it doesn't matter if the activity was consensual. There can be lasting grief, regret, etc. the following day, month, year. I don't expect you to know how some women might feel. We are wired differently. I'm just telling you how many women feel when a relationship ends and they've gone "too far". Consider your fellow believer. Are you helping or hindering them in their walk? Is the activity you're engaging in/thinking of engaging in, possibly going to cause them pain in the future? Wouldn't it be better to err on the cautious side? If you say no, then you might want to really consider how much you really care for the person if you're putting your desires before the woman's well-being/spiritual walk.

The thought of a man holding back from pushing boundaries because he respects the woman; that is a man after my heart.

Okay, so again, that is not completely consensual, when one has to pressure the other to do it. I'm not in the business of pressuring anyone to break their boundaries. I'm in the business of mutual consent, without pressure involved.

 

[ImperialPhantom]

Is it really so hard to actually just save intimate acts for after a marriage has taken place?

If a person doesn't believe in God, or that His word has any deeper meaning, then you can't expect them to live their lives according to God's commandments.

But if one does truly believe, then why not concentrate on fulfiling His desires, rather than our own? I'm not saying it's easy, but we stand to gain more in the long run.

We all meet temptation as we travel through life, but the choices you make determine your path, and ultimately, your destination.

Your posts answers no questions whatsoever. It just reiterates the whole point that people are questioning.

 

[alphacheese]

I have heard the argument that sexual favors given outside of marriage are not lustful if they are given as a gift of love and not out of lust, but sexual gratification is a gift meant for marriage. Although I think I made that up I still strongly believe it.

Are you saying you strongly believe "that sexual favors given outside of marriage are not lustful if they are given as a gift of love and not out of lust" or that "sexual gratification is a gift meant for marriage" or both?

Well, the problem is that not everyone agrees that its God will for us to completely abstain.

Do you mean abstain as in never get married, or not abstaining and not married?

 

[eatenbylocusts]

You can feel regret for doing something that's not wrong, absolutely. If you walk alone through a dark alley in New York City, and you get attacked by a mugger, you're going to regret walking through the alley. Does it make it wrong? No.



Okay, so again, that is not completely consensual, when one has to pressure the other to do it. I'm not in the business of pressuring anyone to break their boundaries. I'm in the business of mutual consent, without pressure involved.

But, people often do things in the heat of the moment that they regret later. There doesn't have to be coercion in all cases. And someone may be comfortable with some forms of affection because the couple has talked about getting married, but if the relationship ends, there can be regret later. I think I've said this before, but I'm not sure you understand what I'm saying.

I have done all of the above and have heard other women's similar stories.

 

[oneamanda2]

But lust is not only a sexual thing, and just because something is done outside of marriage does not mean that it was done with lustful intentions.

The definition of lust is "have a very strong sexual desire for someone" If you are doing something sexual with someone, then it is considered lust. I don't know what else someone could be feeling while they are doing something sexual other than a "strong sexual desire."

Any premarital sex is not good.

 

[Beautiful Fireball]

The definition of lust is "have a very strong sexual desire for someone" If you are doing something sexual with someone, then it is considered lust. I don't know what else someone could be feeling while they are doing something sexual other than a "strong sexual desire."

Any premarital sex is not good.

References please. And no, doing anything sexual with someone does not classify as lust, you can tell me that till your blue in the face but it still doesn't make it true. Lust has to do with coveting something or only wanting it for your own selfish desires, it does not only have to do with sex.

 

[Briseis]

Are you saying you strongly believe "that sexual favors given outside of marriage are not lustful if they are given as a gift of love and not out of lust" or that "sexual gratification is a gift meant for marriage" or both?



Do you mean abstain as in never get married, or not abstaining and not married?

I am saying that I believe sexual gratification is a gift meant for marriage.

And in reply to Thomas1984, I was saying not everyone believes we should abstain before marriage.

Sorry, I guess I wasnt very clear.

 

[ImperialPhantom]

But, people often do things in the heat of the moment that they regret later. There doesn't have to be coercion in all cases. And someone may be comfortable with some forms of affection because the couple has talked about getting married, but if the relationship ends, there can be regret later. I think I've said this before, but I'm not sure you understand what I'm saying.

I have done all of the above and have heard other women's similar stories.

Well again, everyone's actions are something that they themselves need to be accountable for. They can't go blaming others for them, but you seem to be saying that that's kosher.

 

[Thomas1984]

Is it really so hard to actually just save intimate acts for after a marriage has taken place?

If a person doesn't believe in God, or that His word has any deeper meaning, then you can't expect them to live their lives according to God's commandments.

But if one does truly believe, then why not concentrate on fulfiling His desires, rather than our own? I'm not saying it's easy, but we stand to gain more in the long run.

We all meet temptation as we travel through life, but the choices you make determine your path, and ultimately, your destination.

Your posts answers no questions whatsoever. It just reiterates the whole point that people are questioning.

Can you see the questions now?

 

[barefeetonholyground]

My girlfriend and I have been seriously dating for more than a year now. We both have been looking through various websites approving/ and disapproving this act. But we cannot find a solid answer, because the Bible doesn't specifically mention oral sex but on the same note it says to flee from anything sexually immoral. I would like to know what you guys say about it and justify your reasoning.

Thanks
-Chris

I think you answered your own question. If you can give me a solid reason for thinking sex is a pure, moral activity that unmarried couples could engage in then I'll eat my words.

Now that said, Here's my thoughts:
Think about your wedding night. Let me give you two scenarios.

Number One. You and your girl decide to give Oral sex a try. You figure you're going to get married anyway so why not? It ends up not working out between you and you move on with your lives. You find someone else, fall in love, and get married. You reach your honeymoon suite, about to have the most amazing night of your life. Tell me, who are you going to remember that night? You guessed it. You'll be having flashbacks of the girl(s) you were intimate with before. How would that make your wife feel, being compared to the "other girl."

Number Two. You and your girl do have your fun, it works out, you get married. That's right, you and your girlfriend have the fantasy wedding you've been dreaming about your entire life. The party ends, you reach your suite, it's time for a little intimacy. What's so special about it though? It's not really that new, you've seen one another uncovered before, you've felt certain areas before, why is tonight so special? What a great night, to bad it was spoiled by something you should have waited for.

 

[eatenbylocusts]

Well again, everyone's actions are something that they themselves need to be accountable for. They can't go blaming others for them, but you seem to be saying that that's kosher.

No. I'm saying that it takes a special person to hold back on pleasurable activity because it might save the other person from pain in the future.

Maybe you wouldn't be hurt by being intimate with someone you loved and thought you were going to marry after the relationship ends; but lots of people will be. What is real love? Even though you may be pleasing your gf in a physical sense while you get some in return; is that really loving her if those acts may cause her pain in the future? A selfless love would not want to risk causing that kind of pain. Believe me, as I write this I know it sounds idealistic. When I'm in a relationship with someone I want him to want me and have trouble keeping his hands and lips to himself because I don't think chemistry and attraction can come out of nowhere on the wedding night. Maybe the best I can hope for is that a man will understand that there are risks to physical activity and he will show restraint out of logic, Christian principles, and a bit of respect for me because marriage is really the safest place for sharing the most intimate acts.

 

[oneamanda2]

References please. And no, doing anything sexual with someone does not classify as lust, you can tell me that till your blue in the face but it still doesn't make it true. Lust has to do with coveting something or only wanting it for your own selfish desires, it does not only have to do with sex.

I am not telling you that till I am blue in the face, I have the Oxford American Dictionary to tell you it for me and the definition of lust is "strong sexual desire." I don't care what your definition of lust is, I care about facts. So I don't know where you are getting the idea that lust is not sexual when it is contained right there in the dictionary and more importantly in the bible, there are several types of lust mentioned. In 1 John 2:16 it talks about "The lust of the flesh" and "the lust of the eyes" The bible also speaks of worldly lust. So don't be so quick to say that you are right and that I can talk until I am "blue in the face" until you get some facts straight. Another thing, I wasn't saying that "any sexual act" is lust. I said that any premarital sexual act is done because of lust.

 

[Beautiful Fireball]

I am not telling you that till I am blue in the face, I have the Oxford American Dictionary to tell you it for me and the definition of lust is "strong sexual desire." I don't care what your definition of lust is, I care about facts. So I don't know where you are getting the idea that lust is not sexual when it is contained right there in the dictionary and more importantly in the bible, there are several types of lust mentioned. In 1 John 2:16 it talks about "The lust of the flesh" and "the lust of the eyes" The bible also speaks of worldly lust. So don't be so quick to say that you are right and that I can talk until I am "blue in the face" until you get some facts straight. Another thing, I wasn't saying that "any sexual act" is lust. I said that any premarital sexual act is done because of lust.

I never said lust never applied to sex, I said that it did not ONLY apply to that.

And no, any pre-marital sex act is done because of lust. A couple can still engage in that and do it without a spirit of lust. They are not related. Just because something is done pre-maritally does not make it selfish, which is the root of lust.

 

[charligirl]

When I was single and inmy twenties I had some very different opinions to the ones I have now. I had boyfriends, it all 'felt' right to have oral sex and I wasn't actually having 'proper' sex and my studies of the literal word showed that the bible had nothing to say on the subject..... fast forward 15 years with some wisdom under my belt and a husband at my side I can tell you it's not God's best for you.

For a start forget 'feelings' you cannot trust feelings and the bible clearly states

Proverbs 14:12-12 12 There is a way that seems right to a man, But its end is the way of death.
Like someone else said, when I was younger there was no discussion on this.. sex was just wrong but with no explanation as to why. Since I have been married God has shown me more about his plan for sex. How it is akin to Holy communion, you are remembering the covenant you made on your wedding day. Covenant needs a promise and blood to seal it, when you take Holy Communion you remember Jesus' promise and blood shed. You said vows and 'cut' covenant with the shedding of blood on your wedding night. Now I know in this day and age the hymen may not often break on the wedding night, but I believe that was God's original plan for how it should be.

So that's sex, but what about the other stuff? Is your heart pure when you are doing it? Do you [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]? or do you somehow manage not to think about sex at all?

[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] together when you are not married is a cheap imitation of how it should be, your heart is sailing close to the line and trying to get as much phsycial gratification as possible without actually 'doing it' what would Jesus say if he saw your heart at those moments? How would you feel if he walked in the room?

The bible says that to even think about sex with a woman not your wife is like adultery.

It's like trying to find a cheap alternative to something illegal that doesn't actually quite break the law. the bible says to flee from temptation and sexual immorality, not actively do stuff that gives results only intended for marriage.

I don't know any married christian people who don't regret such actiovity before marriage, if it was with each other, or another partner.

 

[charligirl]

IJust because something is done pre-maritally does not make it selfish, which is the root of lust.

I actually think this is a deception. What is the reason for doing such things? Is it love? love is not just a feeling, it is a verb. If you truely loved someone you would not intentionally do something that will cause them pain - trust me, sexual activity outside of marriage always has repercussions.

You can show love a hundred different ways that does not involve all the nice squelchu feelings that go with sexual touch

The intention may not be selfish, the feelings may not be selfish - it may be by mutual agreement, but whilst both get their rocks off now - it will cause pain in the future and to carry on knowing this is selfish.

Feeling good at the time, all in the name of 'love' and ignoring the consequences is selfish - BOTH involved are being selfish as they are not considering the other's future.

 

[ImperialPhantom]

No. I'm saying that it takes a special person to hold back on pleasurable activity because it might save the other person from pain in the future.

Maybe you wouldn't be hurt by being intimate with someone you loved and thought you were going to marry after the relationship ends; but lots of people will be. What is real love? Even though you may be pleasing your gf in a physical sense while you get some in return; is that really loving her if those acts may cause her pain in the future? A selfless love would not want to risk causing that kind of pain. Believe me, as I write this I know it sounds idealistic. When I'm in a relationship with someone I want him to want me and have trouble keeping his hands and lips to himself because I don't think chemistry and attraction can come out of nowhere on the wedding night. Maybe the best I can hope for is that a man will understand that there are risks to physical activity and he will show restraint out of logic, Christian principles, and a bit of respect for me because marriage is really the safest place for sharing the most intimate acts.

Do you even remember the original point I was commenting on? I didn't deny that some might feel hurt. It was the part about feeling USED that was ridiculous.

 

[ImperialPhantom]

I actually think this is a deception. What is the reason for doing such things? Is it love? love is not just a feeling, it is a verb. If you truely loved someone you would not intentionally do something that will cause them pain - trust me, sexual activity outside of marriage always has repercussions.

Proof? Empirical proof?

The intention may not be selfish, the feelings may not be selfish - it may be by mutual agreement, but whilst both get their rocks off now - it will cause pain in the future and to carry on knowing this is selfish.

That's your opinion and your opinion alone. The pain is a result of how a person was raised, and if a breakup occurs, the pain will be there, sex or not.

Feeling good at the time, all in the name of 'love' and ignoring the consequences is selfish - BOTH involved are being selfish as they are not considering the other's future.

Again, everything you've stated here is judging by your opinion alone. So it's not fine for you, and it's not something that works for you. Nobody has a problem with that. But again, that doesn't mean it's the same for everybody, just as some are vegetarians, or some don't drink.

 

[ImperialPhantom]

When I was single and inmy twenties I had some very different opinions to the ones I have now. I had boyfriends, it all 'felt' right to have oral sex and I wasn't actually having 'proper' sex and my studies of the literal word showed that the bible had nothing to say on the subject..... fast forward 15 years with some wisdom under my belt and a husband at my side I can tell you it's not God's best for you.

Alright. Your opinion, again. How do you know what "God's best" is other than what human beings in churches and pop-religion books have said?

Proverbs 14:12-12

12 There is a way that seems right to a man, But its end is the way of death.

Like someone else said, when I was younger there was no discussion on this.. sex was just wrong but with no explanation as to why. Since I have been married God has shown me more about his plan for sex. How it is akin to Holy communion, you are remembering the covenant you made on your wedding day. Covenant needs a promise and blood to seal it, when you take Holy Communion you remember Jesus' promise and blood shed. You said vows and 'cut' covenant with the shedding of blood on your wedding night. Now I know in this day and age the hymen may not often break on the wedding night, but I believe that was God's original plan for how it should be.

First of all, God would not show you a universal truth if the same truth wasn't to be known by other believers. Don't pull the "God has shown me" argument in order to try to prove others wrong. It's not proof of any sort. It's the exact opposite of proof, and anyone can say that God has shown them anything I want to. I could say that God has shown me the Padres winning the world series for the next 10 years, but does that mean it's the truth? No - I wish, but no.

So that's sex, but what about the other stuff? Is your heart pure when you are doing it? Do you [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]? or do you somehow manage not to think about sex at all?

What does "not thinking about sex at all" have to do with anything? And as a believer that it is not necessarily wrong, then that would obviously mean that the person who believes that, believes that their heart is pure, would it not?

[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] together when you are not married is a cheap imitation of how it should be, your heart is sailing close to the line and trying to get as much phsycial gratification as possible without actually 'doing it' what would Jesus say if he saw your heart at those moments? How would you feel if he walked in the room?

Cliche argument. What would Jesus say if He saw me at a sports bar, with a beer in hand, jawing back and forth with my Dodger-fan friend while they play the Padres? What would Jesus say if He saw me driving down the road in the desert, listening to videogame music on my iPod?

The bible says that to even think about sex with a woman not your wife is like adultery.

It says lust after, not think about sex with.

It's like trying to find a cheap alternative to something illegal that doesn't actually quite break the law. the bible says to flee from temptation and sexual immorality, not actively do stuff that gives results only intended for marriage.

Again, an argument solely made from your opinion. If we believe that premarital sex or premarital oral sex is not sinful, then you can't try to convince us by posting an argument that assumes that it is. That's a logical fallacy, because if we believe it is not sinful, we believe it doesn't fall under the umbrella of "temptation" and "sexual immorality".

I don't know any married christian people who don't regret such actiovity before marriage, if it was with each other, or another partner.

So because you don't know them, they don't exist?

 

[ImperialPhantom]

I am not telling you that till I am blue in the face, I have the Oxford American Dictionary to tell you it for me and the definition of lust is "strong sexual desire." I don't care what your definition of lust is, I care about facts. So I don't know where you are getting the idea that lust is not sexual when it is contained right there in the dictionary and more importantly in the bible, there are several types of lust mentioned. In 1 John 2:16 it talks about "The lust of the flesh" and "the lust of the eyes" The bible also speaks of worldly lust. So don't be so quick to say that you are right and that I can talk until I am "blue in the face" until you get some facts straight. Another thing, I wasn't saying that "any sexual act" is lust. I said that any premarital sexual act is done because of lust.

Study a little deeper. The word lust comes from the Old English word for desire, and the Bible was written before Old English even existed. The word was used as a translation of the Latin and Greek. So what are the Latin and Greek?

Greek: Epithymia (covet)
Latin: Luxuria (1: self-indulgent sexual desire 2: wastefulness)

If you want to be accurate, the original meaning was closer to covet than lust. Coveting is defined as:

cov·et

(kŭv'ĭt) Pronunciation Key
v. cov·et·ed, cov·et·ing, cov·ets

v. tr.

1. To feel blameworthy desire for (that which is another's). See Synonyms at envy.
2. To wish for longingly. See Synonyms at desire.

v. intr.
To feel immoderate desire for that which is another's.

Lust, as defined by the same American Heritage dictionary, is a little closer to the original meaning of epithymia and luxuria.

lust

(lŭst) Pronunciation Key
n.

1. Intense or unrestrained sexual craving.
2. 1. An overwhelming desire or craving: a lust for power.

 

[charligirl]

Proof? Empirical proof?

I could show you countless singles and married couples who would testify what it has done to thier lives, but you would not call that proof either. It's not mathematics, proof can only be by experience in this case.

The pain is a result of how a person was raised,

Where is your proof?

How do you know what "God's best" is other than what human beings in churches and pop-religion books have said?

I can claim to know what God's Best is because I can read the bible and all the promises that God has given us for how our lives can be when we obey His word.

.

But again, that doesn't mean it's the same for everybody, just as some are vegetarians, or some don't drink.

It's not the same as that at all, the bible says that you should not judge what others eat or don't eat and Jesus himself drank wine - you cannot compare those life choices to sex outside of marriage.

First of all, God would not show you a universal truth if the same truth wasn't to be known by other believers. Don't pull the "God has shown me" argument in order to try to prove others wrong. It's not proof of any sort.

When did I claim I had proof?, I started my post by saying I had opinions. I wasn't trying to prove others wrong, it was not directed at anyone, merely sharing what I believe God showed me. There are plently of other believers who have had the same revelation - I'm not alone.

If Jesus saw you in a bar with a beer or driving along listening to music I'm sure he'd join you, what weird examples to cite - there's nothing wrong with either situation.

I believe that if you study the subject as a whole, the bible is clear about premarital sex being wrong - if you have prayed and studied and are happy with living that way then that's your choice. You have plenty of years left to prove my opinion wrong. However it's possible that you may find you have a different view point on this once you have a yourself been married a few years.