Predestination from a quasi-Arminian perspective

[food4thought]

I hold to the view that predestination means that God foreknew who would choose Him, which is inevitable given His omniscience, thus those who are saved were predestined from the foundation of the world, since God always knew they would. Moreover, I do believe that it is by God's grace that we are saved, yet that grace is resistable... meaning that God extends grace enough for salvation to people who never receive it, thus remaining lost, while others receive the same grace and embrace it, and thus are saved.

When it comes to omnipotence and God's sovereignty, I believe that God does not need to expend the full measure of His power in every act that He does, otherwise He would have had to create infinitely wise and powerful humans instead of the finite and relatively weak people that He actually did create; so, because He can limit His power when He deems it is good for Him to do so, I see no reason to believe that He cannot similarly limit His sovereignty enough to permit man the ability to choose without God forcing their decisions upon them, all the while maintaining His absolute control over events by His foreknowledge, permitting those things which are in accord with His plan and purpose to happen, and by those instances where He chooses to directly intervene, preventing those things which would undermine His will, and setting in motion things which will accomplish His will.

Nevertheless, God did set this particular world into being at creation, as opposed to any number of potential other worlds He could have created, and so He chose this particular version of me to come into being... one that would sit at a computer musing about the mystery of His will instead of one that would be doing any number of other potential activities. In this way every decision I make is ultimately caused by God, predestined, and under His sovereign control, yet I had the ability to freely choose to sit at my computer and type out this post.

Your thoughts and comments are welcome, just remember what I say in my signature: "truth without love is not God's truth".

 

[Marvin Knox]

I hold to the view that predestination means that God foreknew who would choose Him, which is inevitable given His omniscience, thus those who are saved were predestined from the foundation of the world, since God always knew they would. Moreover, I do believe that it is by God's grace that we are saved, yet that grace is resistable... meaning that God extends grace enough for salvation to people who never receive it, thus remaining lost, while others receive the same grace and embrace it, and thus are saved.

When it comes to omnipotence and God's sovereignty, I believe that God does not need to expend the full measure of His power in every act that He does, otherwise He would have had to create infinitely wise and powerful humans instead of the finite and relatively weak people that He actually did create; so, because He can limit His power when He deems it is good for Him to do so, I see no reason to believe that He cannot similarly limit His sovereignty enough to permit man the ability to choose without God forcing their decisions upon them, all the while maintaining His absolute control over events by His foreknowledge, permitting those things which are in accord with His plan and purpose to happen, and by those instances where He chooses to directly intervene, preventing those things which would undermine His will, and setting in motion things which will accomplish His will.

Nevertheless, God did set this particular world into being at creation, as opposed to any number of potential other worlds He could have created, and so He chose this particular version of me to come into being... one that would sit at a computer musing about the mystery of His will instead of one that would be doing any number of other potential activities. In this way every decision I make is ultimately caused by God, predestined, and under His sovereign control, yet I had the ability to freely choose to sit at my computer and type out this post.

Your thoughts and comments are welcome, just remember what I say in my signature: "truth without love is not God's truth".

Your view of predestination as per your last paragraph is similar to what I believe and teach. It is also close to what Dr. William Lane Craig teaches.

http://www.reasonablefaith.org/

I do believe though that the bible teaches that man in his fallen state cannot properly understand and receive the truth of the gospel without special and direct assistance from God in the person's inner being. Likely this has to do with regeneration of the dead spirit to open the eyes (heart) to believe - like Lydia in the book of Acts.

Various view of whether regeneration is instantaneous or more of a process, perhaps culminating at the time of believing are often put forth. For my part - I don't care about the exact nature of regeneration so long as we agree that it is God who started the process and that it was a secret work for which we cannot take credit.

 

[Job8]

I hold to the view that predestination means that God foreknew who would choose Him, which is inevitable given His omniscience, thus those who are saved were predestined from the foundation of the world, since God always knew they would

I would agree in general but we should always keep in mind that predestination was not for salvation but for perfection or glorification (Rom 8:29,30). Not sure how this is quasi-Arminian. But if every decision that any individual has ever made is caused by God, then you might as well say that there is no free will, and everyone is pre-programmed (which of course is not supported by Scripture). The whole point of free will is that individuals will freely choose whom they will love, serve, and obey. Hence *Choose you this day whom ye wll serve...* That every decision is foreknown by God is quite another matter.

 

[food4thought]

Your view of predestination as per your last paragraph is similar to what I believe and teach. It is also close to what Dr. William Lane Craig teaches.

http://www.reasonablefaith.org/

I am gratified that my understanding is in such company...

I do believe though that the bible teaches that man in his fallen state cannot properly understand and receive the truth of the gospel without special and direct assistance from God in the person's inner being. Likely this has to do with regeneration of the dead spirit to open the eyes (heart) to believe - like Lydia in the book of Acts.

As I said in my first paragraph, I believe God opens the eyes/heart enough for salvation for many people who never receive it... I believe that we must receive what God offers, otherwise God would have created people who are going to suffer in hell for all eternity that He never even gave an opportunity to be saved... that is not good, just, loving, merciful, or righteous; and I believe what the Bible says about God's character.

I heard a good analogy on the radio yesterday that pictures my view pretty well (though not perfectly)... I was drowning with no hope of being saved by my own effort (lost and absolutely unable to save myself), and God threw me a rope (the gospel and grace/faith to believe it), yet I still had to grab the rope (receive Jesus).

Various view of whether regeneration is instantaneous or more of a process, perhaps culminating at the time of believing are often put forth. For my part - I don't care about the exact nature of regeneration so long as we agree that it is God who started the process and that it was a secret work for which we cannot take credit.

Agreed. God always initiates, we simply respond.

 

[Marvin Knox]

I am gratified that my understanding is in such company...

As I said in my first paragraph, I believe God opens the eyes/heart enough for salvation for many people who never receive it... I believe that we must receive what God offers, otherwise God would have created people who are going to suffer in hell for all eternity that He never even gave an opportunity to be saved... that is not good, just, loving, merciful, or righteous; and I believe what the Bible says about God's character.

I heard a good analogy on the radio yesterday that pictures my view pretty well (though not perfectly)... I was drowning with no hope of being saved by my own effort (lost and absolutely unable to save myself), and God threw me a rope (the gospel and grace/faith to believe it), yet I still had to grab the rope (receive Jesus).

Agreed. God always initiates, we simply respond.

I'm glad to see that you agree with me that God does not force people's decisions upon them. Usually the first thing that people who resist the idea of predestination do is say that some kind of robotic control would be necessary for predestination to be true. The fact is that free choice and predestination are completely compatible.

The analogy from the radio is really not any different from what everyone believes - Calvinist - or Arminian - basically any evangelical who believes that there must be a personal response. The difference for the Calvinist, however, is that he would say that the person was already dead - not just drowning.

The idea that it would be unfair of God to not act in a special way (regeneration?) for all men rests on the idea that we are not all guilty in the first place.

The book of Romans say pretty clearly that we are all under judgment even now - and rightly so. One of those judgments that Romans lays out for us is the judgment of "abandonment" to falsehood and unbelief.

Even if those things were not shown in scripture, we would still have examples of special grace for some and not for some others (Lydia, Paul etc.).

We also have the concept of spiritual deadness and inability to believe in a saving way that is clearly stated. There is no instance (that I can see) of God giving spiritual life and not having it culminate in those people being born again by the Word of God in due time.

I would love to see in scripture where God gives "prevenient grace" to every guilty sinner. I just don't see it. I see just the opposite.

In fact, if we think about it, when we pray for the salvation of a loved one we pray as if we expect God to work in some special way in bringing them to salvation that He doesn't do for some others. I can't imagine praying for God to open the eyes of a loved one and then adding at the end of the prayer something like - "But don't mess with his mind and don't do anything that you aren't going to do for everyone on earth - that would be unfair and I know you aren't like that."

The idea of predestination would still be true even if God just operated this world in a hands off way - especially in the area where personal acceptance of salvation is concerned. The fact is though that God is very much hands on in every part of His creation's activities - bar none as I see it.

 

[FireDragon76]

The issue is the Bible says God loves the world and that Christ died for all men. A Lutheran, Arminian, Catholic, or Orthodox Christian can affirm that. Some Calvinists have trouble with that, they construct a "theology of glory" about God choosing everybody for heaven and hell before they were even born. I don't see that doctrine in the Bible.

 

[Marvin Knox]

The issue is the Bible says God loves the world and that Christ died for all men. A Lutheran, Arminian, Catholic, or Orthodox Christian can affirm that. Some Calvinists have trouble with that, they construct a "theology of glory" about God choosing everybody for heaven and hell before they were even born. I don't see that doctrine in the Bible.

God certainly chose before anything existed which history He would "allow" to play out and which He would not allow.

He is intimately involved in the events of history to that end - as the scriptures clearly show.

Because the events of history include certain people accepting Him as Savior and others not believing on Him - it must be said, at least in some sense, that He determines who will be saved and who will not be save.

And yet - He allows for the choices of men to play a pivotable role in those decisions.

It's a bit of a mystery - to be sure.

But it is very clear that predestination and free choice are completely compatible in God's economy.

 

[FireDragon76]

I don't know about that. Lutherans and Arminians both would reject the idea that God causes people to be damned.

If we view God's sovereignty as being about controlling everything, I could see it as an isuse. But if we view God as influencing things towards better outcomes, then I don't see it as an issue. And that's what we see in the Bible. It's not like God wanted Joseph to be beat up by his brothers, but he allowed his brothers to beat him up ,and still his will was accomplished.

 

[food4thought]

God certainly chose before anything existed which history He would "allow" to play out and which He would not allow.

He is intimately involved in the events of history to that end - as the scriptures clearly show.

Because the events of history include certain people accepting Him as Savior and others not believing on Him - it must be said, at least in some sense, that He determines who will be saved and who will not be save.

And yet - He allows for the choices of men to play a pivotable role in those decisions.

It's a bit of a mystery - to be sure.

But it is very clear that predestination and free choice are completely compatible in God's economy.

This sounds like we mostly agree, except that I would say that man is responsible precisely because we must make a decision we are all made capable of making by God's grace, whereas, if I am not misunderstanding you, you would say that only the elect are ever made capable of choosing salvation... and on that point I must disagree. I do see that God at times gives special grace to some (i/e, Paul encounter with Christ on the road to Damascus) while at other times He does for someone what He in one way or another does for all (i/e, opening Lydia's heart to believe), but being enabled to believe and believing are two different things... as one classical commentator indicated, "God believes for no man"; and I would say that all men are, in some way, enabled to believe by God's grace-gift of faith in the light God gives them, but still must make the choice to act on that faith or reject it and follow darkness.

 

[Marvin Knox]

This sounds like we mostly agree, except that I would say that man is responsible precisely because we must make a decision we are all made capable of making by God's grace, whereas, if I am not misunderstanding you, you would say that only the elect are ever made capable of choosing salvation... and on that point I must disagree. I do see that God at times gives special grace to some (i/e, Paul encounter with Christ on the road to Damascus) while at other times He does for someone what He in one way or another does for all (i/e, opening Lydia's heart to believe), but being enabled to believe and believing are two different things... as one classical commentator indicated, "God believes for no man"; and I would say that all men are, in some way, enabled to believe by God's grace-gift of faith in the light God gives them, but still must make the choice to act on that faith or reject it and follow darkness.

We all must make a personal decision concerning putting our faith in the work of Christ. We are without excuse if it turns out that we make the wrong decision.

If we make the right decision we will be considered justified in His eyes.

When we mature in our knowledge of the Word of God, we need to acknowledge that even that faith was authored by Him.

I don't see Him authoring faith in unbelievers anywhere in the Word of God - nor is He somehow required to do so. If I saw it in the Bible I would acknowledge it and rejoice in it.

Fallen men stand guilty before Him and are under His judgment even in this present life. The early chapters of Romans spell that out clearly. One of those righteous judgments is an abandonment to false beliefs.

I'm so happy that I was chosen to receive the gift of faith. I certainly did not deserve it. It was only because of His grace toward me that I believed.

I preach the gospel to unbelievers with the assurance that God has many more such as I who are waiting to be born again through the Word of God.

I wouldn't call that Calvinism, Arminianism or any other "ism."

It's just what the Bible teaches.

 

[Butch5]

I hold to the view that predestination means that God foreknew who would choose Him, which is inevitable given His omniscience, thus those who are saved were predestined from the foundation of the world, since God always knew they would. Moreover, I do believe that it is by God's grace that we are saved, yet that grace is resistable... meaning that God extends grace enough for salvation to people who never receive it, thus remaining lost, while others receive the same grace and embrace it, and thus are saved.

When it comes to omnipotence and God's sovereignty, I believe that God does not need to expend the full measure of His power in every act that He does, otherwise He would have had to create infinitely wise and powerful humans instead of the finite and relatively weak people that He actually did create; so, because He can limit His power when He deems it is good for Him to do so, I see no reason to believe that He cannot similarly limit His sovereignty enough to permit man the ability to choose without God forcing their decisions upon them, all the while maintaining His absolute control over events by His foreknowledge, permitting those things which are in accord with His plan and purpose to happen, and by those instances where He chooses to directly intervene, preventing those things which would undermine His will, and setting in motion things which will accomplish His will.

Nevertheless, God did set this particular world into being at creation, as opposed to any number of potential other worlds He could have created, and so He chose this particular version of me to come into being... one that would sit at a computer musing about the mystery of His will instead of one that would be doing any number of other potential activities. In this way every decision I make is ultimately caused by God, predestined, and under His sovereign control, yet I had the ability to freely choose to sit at my computer and type out this post.

Your thoughts and comments are welcome, just remember what I say in my signature: "truth without love is not God's truth".

Trying to reconcile the irreconcilable?

 

[food4thought]

Trying to reconcile the irreconcilable?

lol. Not really, just trying to accommodate my mind to the paradox, and suggesting that holding both ideas simultaneously is neither irrational nor unbiblical.

 

[food4thought]

When we mature in our knowledge of the Word of God, we need to acknowledge that even that faith was authored by Him.

I agree.

I don't see Him authoring faith in unbelievers anywhere in the Word of God - nor is He somehow required to do so. If I saw it in the Bible I would acknowledge it and rejoice in it.

Just because something is not explicitly stated in the Bible does not mean that it is not implied by what the Bible does say. The Bible says that God is good, just, merciful, righteous, and loving. Is condemning billions of souls, who never had opportunity or even the ability to believe, to eternal torment consistent with those Biblical statements about God's character?

Fallen men stand guilty before Him and are under His judgment even in this present life. The early chapters of Romans spell that out clearly. One of those righteous judgments is an abandonment to false beliefs.

Romans 1:21 says that these people "knew God"... that indicates to me that they had some light from God; and the fact that they are judged for failing to act on that light tells me that they were given the ability to believe it.

 

[bling]

I hold to the view that predestination means that God foreknew who would choose Him, which is inevitable given His omniscience, thus those who are saved were predestined from the foundation of the world, since God always knew they would. Moreover, I do believe that it is by God's grace that we are saved, yet that grace is resistable... meaning that God extends grace enough for salvation to people who never receive it, thus remaining lost, while others receive the same grace and embrace it, and thus are saved.

When it comes to omnipotence and God's sovereignty, I believe that God does not need to expend the full measure of His power in every act that He does, otherwise He would have had to create infinitely wise and powerful humans instead of the finite and relatively weak people that He actually did create; so, because He can limit His power when He deems it is good for Him to do so, I see no reason to believe that He cannot similarly limit His sovereignty enough to permit man the ability to choose without God forcing their decisions upon them, all the while maintaining His absolute control over events by His foreknowledge, permitting those things which are in accord with His plan and purpose to happen, and by those instances where He chooses to directly intervene, preventing those things which would undermine His will, and setting in motion things which will accomplish His will.

Nevertheless, God did set this particular world into being at creation, as opposed to any number of potential other worlds He could have created, and so He chose this particular version of me to come into being... one that would sit at a computer musing about the mystery of His will instead of one that would be doing any number of other potential activities. In this way every decision I make is ultimately caused by God, predestined, and under His sovereign control, yet I had the ability to freely choose to sit at my computer and type out this post.

Your thoughts and comments are welcome, just remember what I say in my signature: "truth without love is not God's truth".

You say: “God foreknew who would choose Him…”

If God is not limited by time then the “foreknowledge” (as we would call it and think about it) is really knowledge of the free will choices we did make in our future. It is only “foreknowing” from our perspective.


You say: “I believe that God does not need to expend the full measure of His power in every act that He does, otherwise He would have had to create infinitely wise and powerful humans…”

If man had infinite wisdom and power would that help man in fulfilling his earthly objective which includes humbly accepting God’s charity in the form of forgiveness? Do the wise and powerful have trouble with humility?

There was this rich, wise, famous and powerful man, who had a hospital named after him and did much benevolent works all over the world, but he also tripped over a poor, lame, intellectually challenged beggar at his gate every day. This beggar fulfilled his earthly objective by provide this rich man with the very best opportunity to experience Godly type love, so who is the better person?

 

[Butch5]

lol. Not really, just trying to accommodate my mind to the paradox, and suggesting that holding both ideas simultaneously is neither irrational nor unbiblical.

I don't see it as a paradox. I think the teaching on the subject is for the most part wrong. The typical teaching is that God has predestined some individuals to be saved. Those who believe in free will usually see it the way you do. I submit that's not what the Bible is speaking of.

 

[food4thought]

You say: “God foreknew who would choose Him…”

If God is not limited by time then the “foreknowledge” (as we would call it and think about it) is really knowledge of the free will choices we did make in our future. It is only “foreknowing” from our perspective.

I was simply using the biblical terminology for God's knowledge. To be accurate from God's perspective, I think we should say we "are making" our future actions instead of will make or did make... I think God's eternal omniscience experiences all of reality (past, present, future) as an all-encompassing now, but we definitely can't say anything about how God experiences reality with real certainty.

You say: “I believe that God does not need to expend the full measure of His power in every act that He does, otherwise He would have had to create infinitely wise and powerful humans…”

If man had infinite wisdom and power would that help man in fulfilling his earthly objective which includes humbly accepting God’s charity in the form of forgiveness? Do the wise and powerful have trouble with humility?

I was not suggesting that God should have made us infinitely wise and powerful, I was making the case for God choosing to limit the full exercise of His power when it seemed good to Him to do so. Obviously, those who have great power and knowledge will struggle with pride, so it seemed good to God to make us limited as we are. My point was that God does not need to exercise the full extent of His power in everything He does... He can limit His exercise of power to bring about a desired result. Therefore, it is possible, perhaps even likely, that God limits His exercise of absolute sovereignty and omnipotence when it comes to controlling our will, allowing us to make choices for ourselves.

There was this rich, wise, famous and powerful man, who had a hospital named after him and did much benevolent works all over the world, but he also tripped over a poor, lame, intellectually challenged beggar at his gate every day. This beggar fulfilled his earthly objective by provide this rich man with the very best opportunity to experience Godly type love, so who is the better person?

Neither person was necessarily better... I am not sure how your point relates to our discussion here.

 

[food4thought]

I don't see it as a paradox. I think the teaching on the subject is for the most part wrong.

Just to be sure we are talking about the same thing, I think the concepts of God's ultimate sovereignty vs man's capability to make free choices is a bit of a paradox, but not irrational and definitely Biblical. I would be interested to hear your ideas on the subject.

The typical teaching is that God has predestined some individuals to be saved. Those who believe in free will usually see it the way you do. I submit that's not what the Bible is speaking of.

You have my attention. Just know that I do not believe in libertarian free will, since only an omnipotent and omniscient being could have the ability and knowledge to make absolutely free choices. Our ability to exercise our will is limited by our own limitations. But I also don't believe in irresistible grace or total depravity (at least not as it is typically expounded upon by Calvinists).

 

[Butch5]

Just to be sure we are talking about the same thing, I think the concepts of God's ultimate sovereignty vs man's capability to make free choices is a bit of a paradox, but not irrational and definitely Biblical. I would be interested to hear your ideas on the subject.

I would submit that the typical Calvinist view of sovereignty is wrong. Sovereignty doesn't mean to control things, it means the ultimate authority. God is the ultimate authority. However, I don't see how that has any bearing on man choosing. The Calvinist definition of sovereign says that God controls things and thus must control mans decision. However, as I said, I reject the Calvinists definition and accept the actual definition of the word.

You have my attention. Just know that I do not believe in libertarian free will, since only an omnipotent and omniscient being could have the ability and knowledge to make absolutely free choices. Our ability to exercise our will is limited by our own limitations. But I also don't believe in irresistible grace or total depravity (at least not as it is typically expounded upon by Calvinists).

Predestination simply means to predetermine. God has predetermined several things. The Calvinist uses Ephesians 1 to say that God has predestined some from the foundation of the world to be saved. That is not what Ephesians 1 is talking about. Paul opens the letter addressing the church. Then in verses 3-12 He breaks into a Hebrew praise to God. What Paul is doing is praising God for the things He's done for Israel. In that section Paul says,

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, (Eph. 1:1 KJV)

In this passage Paul is praising God for foing these things for Israel. He writes about choosing them. We find God choosing Israel in the OT. He writes about them being predestined to the adoption. In Romans Paul writes that the adoption belongs to Israel.

1 I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost, 2 That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart. 3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: 4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; 5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen. (Rom. 9:1 KJV)

If you break down that section of Ephesians 1, verses 3-12 you find that all of the things said were in the past tense except one. Also, Look at the first person person pronouns, us, we, our in that section. Then in verse 13 Paul switches to the second person, you and your. He's making a disctiction between two groups, the, us, we, our, group and the you, your, group. Paul includes himself in the first group of which he says, 'we who first trusted in Christ'. Who first trusted in Christ? it was the Jews. Then in verse 13 he says, 'and you also after you believed'. The word also indicates a different ground that one Paul included himself in. If you're interested is verse by verse breakdown of verses 3-12 I can give you some links that do that.

 

[bottomofsandal]

I hold to the view that predestination means that God foreknew who would choose Him, which is inevitable given His omniscience, thus those who are saved were predestined from the foundation of the world, since God always knew they would. Moreover, I do believe that it is by God's grace that we are saved, yet that grace is resistable... meaning that God extends grace enough for salvation to people who never receive it, thus remaining lost, while others receive the same grace and embrace it, and thus are saved.

When it comes to omnipotence and God's sovereignty, I believe that God does not need to expend the full measure of His power in every act that He does, otherwise He would have had to create infinitely wise and powerful humans instead of the finite and relatively weak people that He actually did create; so, because He can limit His power when He deems it is good for Him to do so, I see no reason to believe that He cannot similarly limit His sovereignty enough to permit man the ability to choose without God forcing their decisions upon them, all the while maintaining His absolute control over events by His foreknowledge, permitting those things which are in accord with His plan and purpose to happen, and by those instances where He chooses to directly intervene, preventing those things which would undermine His will, and setting in motion things which will accomplish His will.

Nevertheless, God did set this particular world into being at creation, as opposed to any number of potential other worlds He could have created, and so He chose this particular version of me to come into being... one that would sit at a computer musing about the mystery of His will instead of one that would be doing any number of other potential activities. In this way every decision I make is ultimately caused by God, predestined, and under His sovereign control, yet I had the ability to freely choose to sit at my computer and type out this post.

Your thoughts and comments are welcome, just remember what I say in my signature: "truth without love is not God's truth".

If God foreknew you would choose Him, then God never chose you ?
But doesn't The Bible say God's grace allows us to choose to believe ?


Doesn't The Bible say God loved us first, then we were able to love Him ?
How then could a man choose to love God first without initiation by God ?


Why then does God create those He knows will not choose Him ?
By this logic, God has predestinated/predetermined some for hell ?

 

[bling]

I was simply using the biblical terminology for God's knowledge. To be accurate from God's perspective, I think we should say we "are making" our future actions instead of will make or did make... I think God's eternal omniscience experiences all of reality (past, present, future) as an all-encompassing now, but we definitely can't say anything about how God experiences reality with real certainty.



I was not suggesting that God should have made us infinitely wise and powerful, I was making the case for God choosing to limit the full exercise of His power when it seemed good to Him to do so. Obviously, those who have great power and knowledge will struggle with pride, so it seemed good to God to make us limited as we are. My point was that God does not need to exercise the full extent of His power in everything He does... He can limit His exercise of power to bring about a desired result. Therefore, it is possible, perhaps even likely, that God limits His exercise of absolute sovereignty and omnipotence when it comes to controlling our will, allowing us to make choices for ourselves.



Neither person was necessarily better... I am not sure how your point relates to our discussion here.

God may not be limiting His power on anyone in any particular way, since both the seeming: rich, powerful, intelligent, and famous are needed along with the extremely needy for all mature adults to be in the best possible situation to fulfill their earthly objective.

Like you say neither is better off.

I agree with you that God purposely decided to limit His sovereignty in order to provide humans with the opportunity to become like He is (having Godly type Love), but I do not thnk you can show it by suggesting God limited His omni-abilities in any way.