Preachen to the choir

[tremble]

I was speaking from common sense, which is God-given and Spirit-led.

And I quote several examples from Jesus himself which refuted your conclusion. Is your common sense more spirit-led than what Jesus said? Is that really all you have to say to the evidence I presented? What's the point of making yourself an authority on prooftexting (you even sited your religious university attendance just in case anyone had any doubts) if you refuse to deal with the evidence when it's presented?

Those early communal Christian societies died out pretty quick. Human nature always makes communes fail. By the end of the first century, that form of church was mostly gone.

So did Jesus make a mistake by calling his followers to live communally with him? Did the Holy Spirit make a mistake on the day of pentecost when it led thousands of Christians to sell their possessions and live together communally?

Just what are you arguing against, Bryan?

Note that I said "This isn't a general call...".

Yes, I did note that. You formulated a conclusion which included all Christianity based on one example from the Bible. Your conclusion was based specifically on the example of the rich young ruler. You did not include any other examples or evidence to show how you reached your conclusion. It was only that one example. Isn't that what you yourself described as Cherry picking?

I'm just saying that it might not be for everyone.

But what did Jesus say about it? You keep going back to "common sense" or "I'm just saying". Can you see how you are still avoiding the evidence I presented from Jesus?

This is the third time now I've asked you to deal with the evidence...

 

[BryanW92]

This is the third time now I've asked you to deal with the evidence...

OK. I never said "don't do it". I never said that the bible says to NEVER sell your belongings and give to the poor. So do it if you feel called to do so. I will not sell all and live as a homeless, jobless person who survives by begging or on welfare. If that locks me out of God's grace, then so be it. Convince me that I am not saved because I have a house and job and cannot be saved as long as I keep them and I'll walk away from Christianity forever.

I spent 30 years as a happy and content atheist, and I didn't have a full-time unpaid job as a church worker on top of my 60 hr/wk paid job. So, prove to me that I am wasting my time because I have possessions and I will give up and return to that life that included a lot more free time.

Make that your ministry: convincing people to give up Christ because they own a car or a have money in the bank. I'm sure that Jesus will reward you greatly for that.

 

[FanthatSpark]

If one holds emotion to threads then there is no room for edification. This is a new concept to me. If one is scripturally secure then grinding it in does put the receiver on the defensive. Thus meekness and scripture is not followed. As of late, praying for meekness has been a request of mine own. What is an argument? Devils playground right? Who gets in the last word and whoever bolds/yells the loudest wins ? Come on guys . Are we not all here to learn or/and share ? There are plenty of statements made by me in this site and one being such as this, " Could the Spirit be female"? That didn't go well but it was a thought on gender specific. I even went so far to say that there was no scripture to say the Spirit was male. That REALLY went bad lol. People started saying things such as read your bible before posting and shot several verses that the Spirit is male. Lesson learned for me. Yet, deliverance is key in this site too for flow of edification . What is "good" in bashing? If one does not bow to evidence given there may be circumstances behind it such as , children, elderly parents, wife, insurance to pay for medical bills. One can be a disciple of Christ posing as an electrician. Where we put God is what is important right?

 

[BryanW92]

One can be a disciple of Christ posing as an electrician. Where we put God is what is important right?

Very true! Very true. Paul worked as a tentmaker during his ministry.

 

[FanthatSpark]

Prooftext, not proofread. Google it.

Here's where spiritual maturity and a knowledge of the bible comes in handy. The book of Proverbs is the "bumper sticker" book of the bible. Everything in it has no context. You can pluck any proverb out of that book and use it without fear of taking it out of context since they all stand alone. (I love Proverbs for that reason. I use Proverbs a lot!)

What is this milk of the spirit you keep talking about? Are you talking about the spiritual milk in 1 Peter 2:2 or 1 Cor 3:2? If you feel that you still need milk, then ignore all that I have said. You are still a babe and should not delve too deep into context. Drink the milk for as long as you need. You have your whole lifetime after you are ready to eat the meat of the bible.

In a herculean effort to steer back to context and prooftext you state in the bottom paragraph of milk. For me, it is perception change. The reading of the bible as a whole has been done twice but quantity reading got lost to quality reading of a few verses coupled to praying. When one comes to the Word in fear then massive amounts of scripture is lost under that perception, for me . For me, it was , I better knock out Romans or I am going to burn.There is a lot of Spirit in Romans never before comprehended in this vessel. I read the bible like a novel ya know? Never seeing the mysteries because God was not first in life and then no understanding of love. It was choked out by fear. Where one is at Spiritually and to state such quenches the spirit. Can say we all are Spiritual children compared to the trinity. As stated before, I study under expositional training under love, to encourage (in the season) other Christians. From an understanding on milk, even the well versed needs a little milk for perhaps a loved one dying or sick. Not a whole chunk of meat .

 

[ToBeBlessed]

In a herculean effort to steer back to context and prooftext you state in the bottom paragraph of milk. For me, it is perception change. The reading of the bible as a whole has been done twice but quantity reading got lost to quality reading of a few verses coupled to praying. When one comes to the Word in fear then massive amounts of scripture is lost under that perception, for me . For me, it was , I better knock out Romans or I am going to burn.There is a lot of Spirit in Romans never before comprehended in this vessel. I read the bible like a novel ya know? Never seeing the mysteries because God was not first in life and then no understanding of love. It was choked out by fear. Where one is at Spiritually and to state such quenches the spirit. Can say we all are Spiritual children compared to the trinity. As stated before, I study under expositional training under love, to encourage (in the season) other Christians. From an understanding on milk, even the well versed needs a little milk for perhaps a loved one dying or sick. Not a whole chunk of meat .

Romans is very good for you to read. I love Romans, it is good to read many times.

I think after salvation, we all need to know who we are in Christ Jesus. Romans 5 and 6.

 

[BryanW92]

Romans is very good for you to read. I love Romans, it is good to read many times.

I think after salvation, we all need to know who we are in Christ Jesus. Romans 5 and 6.

Absolutely. A wise Christian knows and understands Romans.

 

[FanthatSpark]

Romans is very good for you to read. I love Romans, it is good to read many times.

I think after salvation, we all need to know who we are in Christ Jesus. Romans 5 and 6.

Blessings , Cute babe!!

Agreed. Romans has mysteries. I prooftext 12-2 a lot (to borrow a term.) lol. For me, in life experience, that was a foundation shaker.

How change came from fear to love... One day I meet this guy and he is Christian and asks if I have been saved . To shorten this all that was done as a child and young man. He needs someone to fellowship with and it is agreed. So, after backgrounds are exchanged me in fear he in love we delve into the Word. He shows me something... Rom.12:2-3. And asks what does that mean to you. I say, don't be a sinner like the world (conformity) and make your mind think good (transform). He then hooked Prov.3:5 to it and said read that and keep it to forefront of mind then hooked 1 John 4:16. God is love. Then 1 John 4:18 .

So he says, "If love holds no fear 4:18. And God is love 4:16. Then you need to come to His trust and understanding 3:5. So you can change your perception from fear to love (transformation) and quit believing preachers and religions (conformity) for they are of the flesh 12:2."

That rocked my world to tears as he said it he was pointing to the verses and says "That is truth not from me to you but God to you and you need to change perception of His love". We fellowship a little longer and prayed and he says as I am leaving, "Don't let another man tell you what is truth. Let the Word speak to you on truth". So, I prooftext those verses a lot but mainly Rom 12-2.

Gonnah read Rom 5-6 right now. Inspired .. Praise God,

 

[Gunny]

It is actually called "prooftexting" and is a bad way to build your theology.

1) It allows you to lie to yourself. You can get an idea, search for that one verse that seems to confirm your belief, and then you can claim that your personal belief is based on scripture.

2) It is bad scholarship. Try writing a paper for college with only one citation as the proof of your entire thesis.

3) It is misleading to others. So, you found that one verse that proves your belief and you run off to tell others. Perhaps they aren't serious studiers of the bible either and they believe you and start telling people that they believe that too.

You should never go to the bible to find a verse that proves something you believe or think exists in the bible. Instead, you should search the bible for verses that disprove your thesis. If you find scripture that supports and other scripture that disproves your thesis, use both in your discussion and see if others can help you find the truth.

Amen and Amen.

"Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation".

II Peter 1:20
KJV

 

[FanthatSpark]

Amen and Amen.

"Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation".

II Peter 1:20
KJV

Blessings Gunny,

"Prophesy speak", is a whole other bag of worms and agreed that scripture in context for books such as, Revelations, is a must, for single minded Spiritual understanding . Yet, you prooftext II Peter for confirmation. Not saying prooftexting is wrong in application but is a "necessity" for thought flow of the mind/flesh to learn in a little at the time, thus your prooftext correct?. Pray on a little at the time. Do, a little at the time (baby steps). Once a follower has grip on scripture for "personal transformation under prooftexting" lets now go into context. Or as Bryan said , "sip the milk and later go for the meat", (approximation in quote) such as prophesy .

When dealing with a living God, we are all subject to time/seasons and
some are blessed with instant understanding, some not, for in a living God
we have life experiences to add to the equation and there lies the areas of grey , agreed? 1 Ex: Not limited too... 2 Followers of Christ.1 brought up in love. The other brought up in transgression and knows sin on sight (street lingo , "Game recognizes game"). The first follower has warfare inside their heads. The second has peace for they have done what the other is warring about and has fleshly experience in say, cheating on spouse, for only 1 example yet not limited too. Instant understanding for the 2nd follower in tribulation but warfare in the head of 1st follower and they need prooftexting in the Word to affirm cheating is sin.

Thus, in "personal" life experiences the Spirit moves in different ways to achieve "same" results of "sin no more" correct?.

 

[BryanW92]

Not saying prooftexting is wrong in application but is a "necessity" for thought flow of the mind/flesh to learn in a little at the time, thus your prooftext correct?. Pray on a little at the time. Do, a little at the time (baby steps). Once a follower has grip on scripture for "personal transformation under prooftexting" lets now go into context. Or as Bryan said , "sip the milk and later go for the meat", (approximation in quote) such as prophesy .

I'm not sure if you are making fun of me or just didn't understand what I was saying with regards to prooftexting.

Quoting a verse is not prooftexting. That is just quoting a verse.

Prooftexting is the use of a single verse (or a very limited selection of verses) that "proves" some point that you want to make. It is not bad, in itself, but can be and is often misused by people who only search to find that one verse that proves their point and then they stop studying...and listening.

 

[FanthatSpark]

No, No...,

Not making fun just wrong interpretation on prooftexting. So now I go learn the definition and quit assuming lol.

Prooftexting Defined: Many times when someone discusses what the Bible teaches they may use, even though they may be unaware of it, what is called Proof Text. Proof texting uses certain short passages, many times only a single verse, pulled from the Bible in support of a particular belief or doctrine.
The problem with this method is that the person who is Proof texting usually gives their selected verses a meaning that may be entirely different from what the writer intended. The Bible is written in such a way that most verses cannot be correctly understood in a stand alone fashion. The context of a particular verse, who wrote it, when did they write it, where did they write it, etc. is needed to arrive at its intended inspired meaning.
Proof texting can easily lead to wrong conclusions regarding what is the truth of God. An argument or doctrinal stand that relies heavily on proof text is ultimately considered weak. In fact, those who preach and teach others based on such texts are generally viewed negatively by true Biblical scholars and those who seriously study the Bible.
A better way of understanding the scriptures is through what is called Hermeneutics. This technical term simply refers to the process or method of carefully analyzing the meaning of a particular passage. Factors such as who wrote the text, the time period it was written, where and to whom was the passage written, etc. need to be considered in order to arrive at a correct understanding of what the Biblical text teaches. Additionally, any interpretation needs to consider what other parts of the Bible say that are related to what is being studied.

10 For it is precept upon precept, precept upon precept, line upon line . . . (Isaiah 28:10)
​

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by FanthatSpark

Not saying prooftexting is wrong in application but is a "necessity" for thought flow of the mind/flesh to learn in a little at the time, thus your prooftext correct?. Pray on a little at the time. Do, a little at the time (baby steps). Once a follower has grip on scripture for "personal transformation under prooftexting" lets now go into context. Or as Bryan said , "sip the milk and later go for the meat", (approximation in quote) such as prophesy .

I'm not sure if you are making fun of me or just didn't understand what I was saying with regards to prooftexting.

Quoting a verse is not prooftexting. That is just quoting a verse.

Prooftexting is the use of a single verse (or a very limited selection of verses) that "proves" some point that you want to make. It is not bad, in itself, but can be and is often misused by people who only search to find that one verse that proves their point and then they stop studying...and listening.

So how would one go about prooftexting?



.

 

[FanthatSpark]

So how would one go about prooftexting?



.

Your thoughts after reading Definition? I misinterpreted and started throwing the term loosely as in your quote of me saying application is necessary.

 

[BryanW92]

So how would one go about prooftexting?



.

First, get an idea in your head (or have it given to you).

Then, get out your concordance and start looking up keywords. When you find the verse that "proves" your idea is true, stop studying and tell the world that "x is true, and here's the bible verse that proves it!!"

That's a prooftext: "proof" + "text".

The definition given by FanthatSpark is good and it goes into the correct way to read, study, and interpret the bible, which is hermeneutics.

 

[Restoresmysoul]

I have sometimes searched for scriptures to prove something i believed and often have found deeper meaning and truth which supports that belief. However i have also found scriptures which refuted my belief. Its good to compare scripture with scripture.

 

[BryanW92]

I have sometimes searched for scriptures to prove something i believed and often have found deeper meaning and truth which supports that belief. However i have also found scriptures which refuted my belief. Its good to compare scripture with scripture.

I usually search for scripture that proves that I am wrong. If I can't find it, then I search for scripture that supports my hypothesis. Quite often, I learn a lot during that process.

 

[Restoresmysoul]

I usually search for scripture that proves that I am wrong. If I can't find it, then I search for scripture that supports my hypothesis. Quite often, I learn a lot during that process.

I suppose it works both ways.