Pre-trib rapture, why no mention of all the deaths that will occur that day?

Ludicrus

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His ecclesia are not scheduled to receive this coming tribulation of unprecedented proportions .... and why would they be?

However, there will be those who will turn to Him during the period who were not true believers before, and these will be necessarily subjected to the wiles of His wrath at the time

You continually misrepresent the Truth.

They DO NOT REPENT!

Rev_9:20 And the rest of humanity who were not killed by these plagues even then did not repent of [the worship of] the works of their [own] hands, so as to cease paying homage to the demons and idols of gold and silver and bronze and stone and wood, which can neither see nor hear nor move. [Ps. 115:4-7; 135:15-17; Isa. 17:8.]

Rev_9:21 And they did not repent of their murders or their practice of magic (sorceries) or their sexual vice or their thefts.

Rev_16:9 People were severely burned (scorched) by the fiery heat, and they reviled and blasphemed the name of God, Who has control of these plagues, and they did not repent of their sins [felt no regret, contrition, and compunction for their waywardness, refusing to amend their ways] to give Him glory.

Rev_16:11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their anguish and their ulcers (sores), and they did not deplore their wicked deeds or repent [for what they had done].


Perhaps the MAIN KEY that you are missing is a little false doctrine taught about being sealed.

The 144,000 that are sealed in the Book of Revelation, there is only mention of the tribes being sealed.

Why? Because Christians are ALREADY SEALED!!! We don't need re-sealing!

2Co_1:22 [He has also appropriated and acknowledged us as His by] putting His seal upon us and giving us His [Holy] Spirit in our hearts as the security deposit and guarantee [of the fulfillment of His promise].

Eph_1:13 In Him you also who have heard the Word of Truth, the glad tidings (Gospel) of your salvation, and have believed in and adhered to and relied on Him, were stamped with the seal of the long-promised Holy Spirit.

Revelation 7:1-3 AMP
1 AFTER THIS I saw four angels stationed at the four corners of the earth, firmly holding back the four winds of the earth so that no wind should blow on the earth or sea or upon any tree. [Zech. 6:5.]
2 Then I saw a second angel coming up from the east (the rising of the sun) and carrying the seal of the living God. And with a loud voice he called out to the four angels who had been given authority and power to injure earth and sea,
3 Saying, Harm neither the earth nor the sea nor the trees, until we have sealed the bond servants of our God upon their foreheads. [Ezek. 9:4.]

So, yeah, we believers in Christ Jesus are sealed prior to the 144,000. There is no need for Christ to reclaim us, we are His.
 
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Another Lazarus

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The true decption is the idea of a pretrib rapture...and the fact that every verse that's used to prove it...is saying the exact opposite. They are speaking of resurrection...not "futurist escapism". WHat make you think if every one of the apostles except John were martyred...that you deserve a "great escape"?

We're here to do the Lords work...and in doing so we will be persecuted. As this country turns more against Christ and Christians...we'll know who was in it for real.

As to a pretrib rapture...we'll see...:thumbsup:


Lot came out first and then fire came down :

Luke 17 28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

UNLESS U R THE FOOLISH VIRGINS.
 
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Messy

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With all the debates of a pre-trib, mid-trib, or post- tribulation rapture theory, one question has always been in my head and I have yet to hear Jack Vam Impe, Hal Lindsey, John Hagee, or any other rapture theory address this.

As far as the end times goes, the bible is very detailed how all people will die when the different seals and plagues are unleashed. If there is a pre-tribulation rapture, why doesn't the bible describe the massive death toll of the people that will die that day, when out the blue, people driving cars at full speed disappear, pilots in planes disappear, train conductors disappear. Those situations alone of driverless cars , planes and trains crashing, alone will cause countless deaths, yet there is no mention about the many that will perish on that day if there is a pre-trib rapture, but the bible goes into detail about all the deaths during the tribulation.

Is something missing in scriptures, or is there really going to be a pre-trib rapture?

I've found nothing about it in the Bible, but a woman from Valdres said that. But only that the saints would be safe, whatever that means.

1968 Prophecy by 90 Year Old Woman in Norway
The Bible does speak about rumors of wars.
Ron Peters who had a dream saw the dead raised and a disaster and then the antichrist on television who would arrange everything. He saw a dollar biljet that came out in 2011. He was raised as a catholic, didn't believe when he got that dream, dreamt he went through the tribulation and got saved in that dream and irl weeks later.
 
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Ludicrus

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Lot came out first and then fire came down :

Luke 17 28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

UNLESS U R THE FOOLISH VIRGINS.

But the Son of Man is not revealed in this passage.
The last trumpet is blown in chapter 11:15 And this passage isn't about the Resurrection either.

Revelation 14:12-20 AMP
12 Here [comes in a call for] the steadfastness of the saints [the patience, the endurance of the people of God], those who [habitually] keep God's commandments and [their] faith in Jesus.
13 Then I heard further [perceiving the distinct words of] a voice from heaven, saying, Write this: Blessed (happy, to be envied) are the dead from now on who die in the Lord! Yes, blessed (happy, to be envied indeed), says the Spirit, [in] that they may rest from their labors, for their works (deeds) do follow (attend, accompany) them!
14 Again I looked, and behold, [I saw] a white cloud, and sitting on the cloud One resembling a Son of Man, with a crown of gold on His head and a sharp scythe (sickle) in His hand. [Dan. 7:13.]
15 And another angel came out of the temple sanctuary, calling with a mighty voice to Him Who was sitting upon the cloud, Put in Your scythe and reap, for the hour has arrived to gather the harvest, for the earth's crop is fully ripened. [Joel 3:13.]
16 So He Who was sitting upon the cloud swung His scythe (sickle) on the earth, and the earth's crop was harvested.
17 Then another angel came out of the temple [sanctuary] in heaven, and he also carried a sharp scythe (sickle).
18 And another angel came forth from the altar, [the angel] who has authority and power over fire, and he called with a loud cry to him who had the sharp scythe (sickle), Put forth your scythe and reap the fruitage of the vine of the earth, for its grapes are entirely ripe.
19 So the angel swung his scythe on the earth and stripped the grapes and gathered the vintage from the vines of the earth and cast it into the huge winepress of God's indignation and wrath.
20 And [the grapes in] the winepress were trodden outside the city, and blood poured from the winepress, [reaching] as high as horses' bridles, for a distance of 1,600 stadia (about 200 miles). [Joel 3:13.]


Before I go into any commentary, make a note on verse 13! It's very important!!! Blessing in the midst of Tribulation!!!

Because there's another blessing later.

Barnes Commentary states:

Revelation 14:13

And I heard a voice from heaven - A voice that seemed to speak from heaven.
Saying unto me, Write - Make a record of this truth. We may suppose that John was engaged in making a record of what he saw in vision; he was now instructed to make a record of what he heard. This passage may be referred to as a proof that he wrote this book while in Patmos, or as the heavenly disclosures were made to him, and not afterward from memory.
Blessed are the dead - That is, the condition of those who die in the manner which is immediately specified, is to be regarded as a blessed or happy one. It is much to be able to say of the dead that they are “blessed.” There is much in death that is sad; we so much dread it by nature; it cuts us off from so much that is dear to us; it blasts so many hopes; and the grave is so cold and cheerless a resting place, that we owe much to a system of religion which will enable us to say and to feel, that it is a blessed thing to die. Assuredly we should be grateful for any system of religion which will enable us thus to speak of those who are dead; which will enable us, with corresponding feeling, to look forward to our own departure from this world.
Which die in the Lord - Not all the dead; for God never pronounces the condition of the wicked who die, blessed or happy. Religion guards this point, and confines the declaration to those who furnish evidence that they are prepared for heaven. The phrase “to die in the Lord” implies the following things:
(1) That they who thus die are the friends of the Lord Jesus. The language “to be in the Lord” is often used to denote true attachment to him, or close union with him. Compare Joh_15:4-7; Rom_16:13, Rom_16:22; 1Co_4:17; 1Co_7:39; Phi_1:14; Col_4:7. The assurance, then, is limited to those who are sincere Christians; for this the language properly implies, and we are authorized to apply it only as there is evidence of true religion.
(2) to “die in the Lord” would seem also to imply that there should be, at the time, the evidence of his favor and friendship. This would apply:
(a) to those who die as martyrs, giving their lives as a testimony to the truth of religion, and as an evidence of their love for it; and,
(b) to those who have the comforting evidence of his presence and favor on the bed of death.
From henceforth - ἀπάρτι aparti. This word has given no little perplexity to expositors, and it has been variously rendered. Some have connected it with the word “blessed” - “Blessed henceforth are the dead who die in the Lord”; that is, they will be ever-onward blessed: some with the word “die,” referring to the time when the apostle was writing - “Blessed are they who, after this time, die in the Lord”; designing to comfort those who were exposed to death, and who would die as martyrs: some as referring to the times contemplated in these visions - “Blessed will they be who shall die in those future times.” Witsius understands this as meaning that, from the time of their death, they would be blessed, as if it had been said, immediately after their dissolution they would be blessed. Doddridge renders it, “Henceforth blessed are the dead.” The language is evidently not to be construed as implying that they who had died in the faith before were not happy, but that in the times of trial and persecution that were to come, they were to be regarded as especially blessed who should escape from these sorrows by a Christian death. Scenes of woe were indeed to occur, in which many believers would die. But their condition was not to be regarded as one of misfortune, but of blessedness and joy, for:
(a) they would die in an honorable cause;
(b) they would emerge from a world of sorrow; and,
(c) they would rise to eternal life and peace.
The design, therefore, of the verse is to impart consolation and support to those who would be exposed to a martyr’s death, and to those who, in times of persecution, would see their friends exposed to such a death. It may be added that the declaration here made is true still, and ever will be. It is a blessed thing to die in the Lord.
**********************

From this, I gather that not all Christians die, but those that die from the persecution and stuff at that point, are to be considered as blessed.

So, where is the Son of Man revealed????

You raise a very good question. And I will show you.

And again, it starts with a blessing!

Revelation 19:9-21 AMP
9 Then [the angel] said to me, Write this down: Blessed (happy, to be envied) are those who are summoned (invited, called) to the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he said to me [further], These are the true words (the genuine and exact declarations) of God.
10 Then I fell prostrate at his feet to worship (to pay divine honors) to him, but he [restrained me] and said, Refrain! [You must not do that!] I am [only] another servant with you and your brethren who have [accepted and hold] the testimony borne by Jesus. Worship God! For the substance (essence) of the truth revealed by Jesus is the spirit of all prophecy [the vital breath, the inspiration of all inspired preaching and interpretation of the divine will and purpose, including both mine and yours].
11 After that I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse [appeared]! The One Who was riding it is called Faithful (Trustworthy, Loyal, Incorruptible, Steady) and True, and He passes judgment and wages war in righteousness (holiness, justice, and uprightness). [Ezek. 1:1.]
12 His eyes [blaze] like a flame of fire, and on His head are many kingly crowns (diadems); and He has a title (name) inscribed which He alone knows or can understand. [Dan. 10:6.]
13 He is dressed in a robe dyed by dipping in blood, and the title by which He is called is The Word of God.
14 And the troops of heaven, clothed in fine linen, dazzling and clean, followed Him on white horses.
15 From His mouth goes forth a sharp sword with which He can smite (afflict, strike) the nations; and He will shepherd and control them with a staff (scepter, rod) of iron. He will tread the winepress of the fierceness of the wrath and indignation of God the All-Ruler (the Almighty, the Omnipotent). [Ps. 2:9.]
16 And on His garment (robe) and on His thigh He has a name (title) inscribed, KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS. [Deut. 10:17; Dan. 2:47.]
17 Then I saw a single angel stationed in the sun's light, and with a mighty voice he shouted to all the birds that fly across the sky, Come, gather yourselves together for the great supper of God, [Ezek. 39:4, 17-20.]
18 That you may feast on the flesh of rulers, the flesh of generals and captains, the flesh of powerful and mighty men, the flesh of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all humanity, both free and slave, both small and great!
19 Then I saw the beast and the rulers and leaders of the earth with their troops mustered to go into battle and make war against Him Who is mounted on the horse and against His troops.
20 And the beast was seized and overpowered, and with him the false prophet who in his presence had worked wonders and performed miracles by which he led astray those who had accepted or permitted to be placed upon them the stamp (mark) of the beast and those who paid homage and gave divine honors to his statue. Both of them were hurled alive into the fiery lake that burns and blazes with brimstone.
21 And the rest were killed with the sword that issues from the mouth of Him Who is mounted on the horse, and all the birds fed ravenously and glutted themselves with their flesh.


So, just above is the return of the Lord. It is after the 7th Trumpet is sounded.

Rev_11:15 The seventh angel then blew [his] trumpet, and there were mighty voices in heaven, shouting, The dominion (kingdom, sovereignty, rule) of the world has now come into the possession and become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ (the Messiah), and He shall reign forever and ever (for the eternities of the eternities)! [Ps. 22:28; Dan. 7:13, 14, 27.]
 
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n2thelight

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Originally Posted by Time Watcher

His ecclesia are not scheduled to receive this coming tribulation of unprecedented proportions .... and why would they be?

However, there will be those who will turn to Him during the period who were not true believers before, and these will be necessarily subjected to the wiles of His wrath at the time



Here's the problem with your take on God's wrath,if one belongs to Him,His wrath is not directed at you. In other words,I could be in the mist of a million people,all of which are deserving of His wrath except me....His wrath to those deserving,would have no effect on me what so ever.....To say those that turn to Him during this time is simply false.....


As I said earlier,we over come by His blood,liken it to the Israelites who had to put the blood on the doorpost,they were covered,in a type of His blood...Question,when the death angel came,did any of them die?

Will answer it for ya,NO!!!!
 
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Another Lazarus

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But the Son of Man is not revealed in this passage.
The last trumpet is blown in chapter 11:15 And this passage isn't about the Resurrection either.

Rev_11:15 The seventh angel then blew [his] trumpet, and there were mighty voices in heaven, shouting, The dominion (kingdom, sovereignty, rule) of the world has now come into the possession and become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ (the Messiah), and He shall reign forever and ever (for the eternities of the eternities)! [Ps. 22:28; Dan. 7:13, 14, 27.]

the trumpet of Rapture is different with this trumpet of Rev 11 15.
1 Thes 4 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God
when Paul wrote 1 Thes 4 16, he refer to the trumpet of Rapture, in fact Paul didnt know anything about the Trumpet of Rev 11 15 because at that time the book of revelation was not yet given to Apostle John.
 
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n2thelight

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the trumpet of Rapture is different with this trumpet of Rev 11 15.
1 Thes 4 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God
when Paul wrote 1 Thes 4 16, he refer to the trumpet of Rapture, in fact Paul didnt know anything about the Trumpet of Rev 11 15 because at that time the book of revelation was not yet given to Apostle John.

Paul stated that this was the last trump,question,where are the one's before these,if not the one's of the Revelation......???

Paul not knowing is not a very good argument at all,as how many Old Testament Prophets knew what would be written in the New Testament

Heck Daniel didn't even know most of what he wrote about concerning the end times....
 
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Another Lazarus

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There will be no rapture. The next event to occur after the tribulation judgments is Messiah's return. When He returns, the tares will be taken first, leaving the wheat (the righteous) behind on earth.

the good shall be collected first then the bad thrown away.

Matthew 13:47-50
New International Version (NIV)
The Parable of the Net

47 “Once again, the kingdom of heaven is like a net that was let down into the lake and caught all kinds of fish. 48 When it was full, the fishermen pulled it up on the shore. Then they sat down and collected the good fish in baskets, but threw the bad away.

Jesus blesses u
 
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ananda

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the good shall be collected first then the bad thrown away.

Matthew 13:47-50
New International Version (NIV)
The Parable of the Net

47 “Once again, the kingdom of heaven is like a net that was let down into the lake and caught all kinds of fish. 48 When it was full, the fishermen pulled it up on the shore. Then they sat down and collected the good fish in baskets, but threw the bad away.

Jesus blesses u
No, if anything, this parable only teaches that all the good and the bad are gathered together at the same time for judgment day.

The parable of the wheat and tares shows that the tares are clearly taken first, not the wheat.
 
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Another Lazarus

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There will be no rapture. The next event to occur after the tribulation judgments is Messiah's return. When He returns, the tares will be taken first, leaving the wheat (the righteous) behind on earth.

in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles TO BURN THEM, but gather the wheat into my barn.
—Matthew 13:24-30, Holy Bible: King James Version

see that word TO BURN THEM.
it means the end time evil people who worship antichrist shall be gathered first to the Armageddon to WIPE THEM OFF the earth, then the Raptured Saints from heaven shall be gathered on the new earth (my barn)
to start the Milennium.
 
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ananda

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in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles TO BURN THEM, but gather the wheat into my barn.
—Matthew 13:24-30, Holy Bible: King James Version

see that word TO BURN THEM.
it means the end time evil people who worship antichrist shall be gathered first to the Armageddon to WIPE THEM OFF the earth, then the Raptured Saints from heaven shall be gathered on the new earth (my barn)
to start the Milennium.
Where does it say or imply in Mt 13:24-30 that the saints were raptured beforehand? I don't see it.
 
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