Praying for the rain, preparing to recieve the spirit

What percentage might the spirit fall on Shemini Atzereth or Simchat Torah?

  • 100 percent

  • 70 percent

  • 50-50

  • 40 percent or less.


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HannibalFlavius

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The first disciples received the spirit because they continued in fasting and prayer right through the counting of the omer.

That was the first rain upon the Earth.


But there is another promised rain.

Will it, or shouldn't come to certain people in the same way?

People who are in fasting and prayer on a certain day?


If the spirit was given on that day that the law was given, then wouldn't Shemini Atzeret, and Simchat Torah be the days to prepare?



If the law begins and ends on these days, then wouldn't it be the same as Pentecost?

And if these days close the first rains of spring, and these days conclude the fall rains, should we be prepared on these days?
 

Lulav

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I couldn't answer your poll as I don't understand it. But I understand what you are saying about the latter rain. I think there are three gatherings or harvests.

The first would be the barley harvest, this which grows over the winter and it the first of first fruits.

The second is the wheat harvest which concludes at Shavuot.

The third is the grape and oil harvest which I believe is the fall harvest.

Now Yeshua spoke about the wheat being gathered into the barns. And he also said that the kingdom which is not of this world had come and told his disciples to go out and preach this news.

I still think, by those facts that we are still awaiting the second harvest.
 
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HannibalFlavius

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I couldn't answer your poll as I don't understand it. But I understand what you are saying about the latter rain. I think there are three gatherings or harvests.

The first would be the barley harvest, this which grows over the winter and it the first of first fruits.

The second is the wheat harvest which concludes at Shavuot.

The third is the grape and oil harvest which I believe is the fall harvest.

Now Yeshua spoke about the wheat being gathered into the barns. And he also said that the kingdom which is not of this world had come and told his disciples to go out and preach this news.

I still think, by those facts that we are still awaiting the second harvest.

The spring harvest with the Shavuot was completed at Jesus first coming and he also completed the sacrifices for the fall but not the promises of the fall.

Hosea-The coming of the Lord is as the rains, the former and latter rains on the Earth.


The fall is still unfulfilled.


There are two great harvests, the spring and the fall.



What I believe is that the spirit will come on Shemeni Etzereth, and Simchat Torah.

There is a time coming when some people are filled with the Holy spirit.


I'm looking at a happening like the days of Jesus repeating themselves.

Where Jesus was one man in a small country, and his disciples small in numbers.

What I believe is that the same sorts of things will happen on a much bigger scale.


There is of course still death waiting the brethren of Christ who are to be killed.

So I see a happening where many are filled with the spirit and the world comes against them, and kills them.
 
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Lulav

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The spring harvest with the Shavuot was completed at Jesus first coming and he also completed the sacrifices for the fall but not the promises of the fall.

Hosea-The coming of the Lord is as the rains, the former and latter rains on the Earth.


The fall is still unfulfilled.


There are two great harvests, the spring and the fall.



What I believe is that the spirit will come on Shemeni Etzereth, and Simchat Torah.

There is a time coming when some people are filled with the Holy spirit.


I'm looking at a happening like the days of Jesus repeating themselves.

Where Jesus was one man in a small country, and his disciples small in numbers.

What I believe is that the same sorts of things will happen on a much bigger scale.


There is of course still death waiting the brethren of Christ who are to be killed.

So I see a happening where many are filled with the spirit and the world comes against them, and kills them.

I am seeing only two.

One witness is not enough to convict a man accused of any crime or offense he may have committed. A matter must be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.

3 And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth." 4 These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth. 5 If anyone tries to harm them, fire comes from their mouths and devours their enemies. This is how anyone who wants to harm them must die. 6 These men have power to shut up the sky so that it will not rain during the time they are prophesying; and they have power to turn the waters into blood and to strike the earth with every kind of plague as often as they want.
 
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HannibalFlavius

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I am seeing only two.



3 And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth." 4 These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth. 5 If anyone tries to harm them, fire comes from their mouths and devours their enemies. This is how anyone who wants to harm them must die. 6 These men have power to shut up the sky so that it will not rain during the time they are prophesying; and they have power to turn the waters into blood and to strike the earth with every kind of plague as often as they want.


So who are the two olive trees?

Do you think it is just two men?
 
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Lulav

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Yes, Vis, I can see that too. :thumbsup:

HF, I think that maybe we can bring it down to two as there are two firstfruits. Most only think of the firstfruits of passover time, the barley harvest, but there is also a firstfruit offering at Shavuot and this is the wheat harvest. This has something that Passover/firstfruits of Barley, didn't , leaven.

The first firstfruits is unleavened===== Yeshua
The second firstfruits has two loaves of leavened bread ===the people redeemed
Then Sukkot is the final harvest of everything else.

Now in Revelation we read about the angel being told to not harm the oil or the wine.

The Oil would be from the Olives and the wine from the grapes. Calling it oil and wine instead of Olives and Grapes shows that they have already been harvested and turned into Olive Oil and Wine.

In Deut 11 it says

12 A land which the L-RD thy God careth for : the eyes of the L-RD thy God are always upon it, from the beginning of the year even unto the end of the year.
13 And it shall come to pass, if ye shall hearken diligently unto my commandments which I command you this day, to love the L-RD your God, and to serve him with all your heart and with all your soul, 14 That I will give you the rain of your land in his due season, the first rain and the latter rain, that thou mayest gather in thy corn, and thy wine, and thine oil.
In Revelation 6:6

5 And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say , Come and see . And I beheld , and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand. 6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say , A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.


All these things you find together, mostly the wheat or sometimes translated as corn, with the oil and wine. The firstfruits of all these were brought to the temple. They were used for sacrifices.

The 'hurt' translated here means to damage.

Now the wheat and barley are very expensive so are in limited quantities, but there is oil and wine. Is this sometime between Sukkot and Shavuot?
 
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HannibalFlavius

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Yes, Vis, I can see that too. :thumbsup:

HF, I think that maybe we can bring it down to two as there are two firstfruits. Most only think of the firstfruits of passover time, the barley harvest, but there is also a firstfruit offering at Shavuot and this is the wheat harvest. This has something that Passover/firstfruits of Barley, didn't , leaven.

The first firstfruits is unleavened===== Yeshua
The second firstfruits has two loaves of leavened bread ===the people redeemed
Then Sukkot is the final harvest of everything else.

Now in Revelation we read about the angel being told to not harm the oil or the wine.

The Oil would be from the Olives and the wine from the grapes. Calling it oil and wine instead of Olives and Grapes shows that they have already been harvested and turned into Olive Oil and Wine.

In Deut 11 it says

In Revelation 6:6

5 And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say , Come and see . And I beheld , and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand. 6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say , A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.


All these things you find together, mostly the wheat or sometimes translated as corn, with the oil and wine. The firstfruits of all these were brought to the temple. They were used for sacrifices.

The 'hurt' translated here means to damage.

Now the wheat and barley are very expensive so are in limited quantities, but there is oil and wine. Is this sometime between Sukkot and Shavuot?

Thank you so much for all of this, of course, I have been thinking of it all day.

When we start talking in terms of Revelation and wheat, and barley, so much information is relayed from just the thought of them, I'm sure you probably know what I mean.

I mean that I have so much in my mind about these things that I'm always afraid that I'm missing a view because of existing views.

When I think of the 3 main festivals and even all the 7, I think of one specific day that all of them happen together.

But we are told that at the end of the age, the wheat harvest will take place and God's wheat{us} will be gathered in his barn while the tares burn.

Then I have in my head the 3 parables.

The Sower-the barley harvest of Passover.
The wheat and tares-The wheat harvest of Pentecost.
The mustard seed- The covering of Sukkot.

I think of the barley harvest being the first harvest and see how few the barley are in a certain day in Revelation, and I see the wheat and think of Pentecost and the spirit given and the spirit being sent amongst gentiles.

In my mind, I see the Passover-Pentecost and Tabernacles as one, like an instruction to my Body, my soul, and my spirit.

But also I see 3 stages that a person walks through as he walks from the outer court, and then into the Holy place, and then to the Holy of Holies.

I could see the 3 parables like this.

That Jesus was sown into the ground on the barley harvest, and his spirit was given on the wheat harvest, but it had an evil seed mixed within it.

And I see the Mustard seed as a man who had lived his life and then to become a covering for everyone.

Then I see the parable of the Leaven as the explanation of the first 3 parables given.



Being that I see everything in 3's, I also see the seals, the trumpets and the bowls as One.

The Third seal
Revelation 6:5 When he opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature say, '' Come and see.'' And I looked, and behold, a black horse, and he who sat on it had a pair of scaled in his hand. And I heard a voice in the midst of the four living creatures saying,'' a quart6 of wheat for a denarius, and 3 quarts of barley for a denarius; and do not harm the oil and the wine.{something happened.}

The Third Trumpet
Revelation 8:10 Then the third trumpet sounded: And a great star fell from heaven, burning like a torch, and it fell on a third of the rivers{we are rivers} and on the springs of water; and the name of the star is wormwood: and a third of the waters became wormwood., and many men died from the water, because it was made bitter{I believe this speaks of the water within us.}

The third Bowl
Revelation 16:4 Then the third angel poured out his bowl on the sea, and it became blood as of a dead man; and every living creature in the sea died.


I see the seals, the trumpets, the bowls as one and they are different views from different aspects.

But speaking of barley, of wheat, oil, wine, rivers, seas, trees, my mind does not go to the actual things themselves, but are symbolic for many things.
 
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HannibalFlavius

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I am seeing only two.



3 And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth." 4 These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth. 5 If anyone tries to harm them, fire comes from their mouths and devours their enemies. This is how anyone who wants to harm them must die. 6 These men have power to shut up the sky so that it will not rain during the time they are prophesying; and they have power to turn the waters into blood and to strike the earth with every kind of plague as often as they want.


Revelation 11

King James Version (KJV)

11 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

The Temple proper is two sections, the outer court is not counted meaning that the measuring of the Temple is with measuring people within the 3 sections of that Temple.

The people who claim to be of the God of Israel and claim to be followers of Jesus remain gentile by a very large part.

These people who are gentiles that are not measured because they are not Israel, these people begin a 42 month war against the people of the two sections of the Temple who WERE counted and measured.

It goes right back to naming the 144,000 who they alone receive the reward of resurrection.

If you are not a part of those 144,000 then you have not obtained to being the firstfruits of God being raised as firstfruits at the second coming of God.

When Christ was raised, he was raised a new son into a new kingdom as being the firstfruits raised to God and everything happens according to the order of resurrection, if you are not amongst the 144,000, you have not been resurrected with the brethren of Christ and you have to wait further.

Revelation 14.--The 144,000
4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

1st Corinthians 15--
The Order of Resurrection
…22For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive. 23But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ's at His coming, 24then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power.…

So we have to agree that the 144,000 are the only people who have obtained the resurrection in being the only ones who are standing with Christ at the resurrection, if you are not in the first, then you are in trouble.

So if you are named under the tribes of Israel, you have no hope of obtaining the first reward of resurrection when ALL who are to be resurrected from history are so born into the Kingdom following Jesus as first fruits.
 
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HannibalFlavius

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and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.


?

Do you have any more thoughts of oil and wine?

Anything at all?

I'm certain that it doesn't speak of oil and wine, but are you?

Is it symbolic for something?

I mean, I have my thoughts, but what are yours.
 
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HannibalFlavius

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In Joel 2:18-19, 24:
"Then will the Lord be jealous for his land, and pity his people. Yea,
the Lord will answer and say unto his people, Behold, I will send the
corn and wine (Tiyrosh) and oil and ye shall be satisfied ... and the
floors shall be full of wheat, and the fats shall overflow with wine
(Tiyrosh) and oil"
 
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