Pope Paul VI Rejected Modernism

[LivingWordUnity]

If there are any SSPX Catholics who see this thread, please read this papal encyclical and take note because it shows that Pope Paul VI was orthodox and rejected modernism. He has been judged wrongly by SSPX and Sedevacantist Catholics.

Dangers and Their Remedy

The Church itself is being engulfed and shaken by this tidal wave of change, for however much men may be committed to the Church, they are deeply affected by the climate of the world. They run the risk of becoming confused, bewildered and alarmed, and this is a state of affairs which strikes at the very roots of the Church. It drives many people to adopt the most outlandish views. They imagine that the Church should abdicate its proper role, and adopt an entirely new and unprecedented mode of existence. Modernism might be cited as an example. This is an error which is still making its appearance under various new guises, wholly inconsistent with any genuine religious expression. It is surely an attempt on the part of secular philosophies and secular trends to vitiate the true teaching and discipline of the Church of Christ.

An effective remedy is needed if all these dangers, which are prevalent in many quarters, are to be obviated, and We believe that such a remedy is to be found in an increased self-awareness on the part of the Church. The Church must get a clearer idea of what it really is in the mind of Jesus Christ as recorded and preserved in Sacred Scripture and in Apostolic Tradition, and interpreted and explained by the tradition of the Church under the inspiration and guidance of the Holy Spirit. Provided we implore the aid of the Spirit and show Him a ready obedience, He will certainly never fail to redeem Christ's promise: "But the Paraclete, the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring all things to your mind, whatsoever I shall have said to you.'' (l4)

27. The same could be said of the errors we see circulating within the Church itself and to which people are exposed who have only a partial understanding of the Church and its mission, and who do not pay close enough attention to divine revelation and the Church's Christ-given authority to teach.

(Read more)

As for why, in 1967, the Oath against Modernism was done away with, here's the answer from Fr. Charles Grondin:

I do not have any particular insight into the mind of Pope Paul VI nor have I read anywhere his stated reasons. What I can say is that all who are to be ordained make a Profession of Faith and an Oath of Fidelity.

In the Profession of Faith the individual recites the Nicene Creed and then declares:

Quote:
With firm faith, I also believe everything contained in the Word of God, whether written or handed down in Tradition, which the Church, either by a solemn judgement or by the ordinary and universal Magisterium, sets forth to be believed as divinely revealed.

I also firmly accept and hold each and everything definitively proposed by the Church regarding teaching on faith and morals.

Moreover, I adhere with religious submission of will and intellect to the teachings which either the Roman pontiff or the College of Bishops enunciate when they exercise their authentic Magisterium, even if they do not intend to proclaim these teachings by a definitive act.​

And here is part of the Oath of Fidelity:

Quote:
In fulfilling the charge entrusted to me in the name of the Church, I shall hold fast to the deposit of faith in its entirety; I shall faithfully hand it on and explain it, and I shall avoid any teachings contrary to it...

...With Christian obedience I shall follow what the Bishops, as authentic doctors and teachers of the faith, declare, or what they, as those who govern the Church, establish.​

The Profession of Faith and Oath of Fidelity would seem to render the Oath against Modernism redundant. Modernism is contrary to the teachings of the Church and the deposit of faith, both of which the man to be ordained has sworn not to contradict.

(Source)

Also during Pope Paul VI's pontificate, the Vatican lamented the abuses that arose from the misinterpretation of Vatican II. Here's the letter that was issued which lists the errors: SACRED CONGREGATION FOR THE DOCTRINE OF THE FAITH - Regarding some sentences and errors arising from the interpretation of the decrees of the Second Vatican Council

For the background on the Church's condemnation of Modernism see:
Pascendi Dominici Gregis (On the Doctrines of the Modernists)
Lamentabili Sane (Syllabus Condemning the Errors of the Modernists)
The Oath Against Modernism

 

[Fantine]

The fact that Pope Paul VI rejected "modernism" after the world had become "post-modern" could be a testament to the Church's failure to adapt....

Here's what "America" says:

At its worst, the postmodern moment is a simple reversion to modernity at its most banal: subjectivism (“Here’s my story; this is my truth; accept it”) and relativism (“This is our story; this is our truth; period”). Such stances of sloth simply exclude critique, repentance and conversion. Doctrine becomes a matter of taste rather than of truth. But in its better episodes, the postmodern moment can point to the religious truth found in cacophony rather than harmony, the unresolved rather than the certain, the jagged rather than the perfect.

http://americamagazine.org/issue/columns/postmodern-catholicism

So rejoice, progressives! In contributing to the cacophony, we are helping to refine and define religious truth!

 

[LivingWordUnity]

A "postmodernist" still believes all the same things as when they were called modernists. A person who changes their name is still the same person. So there is no real difference. But, rather than squabbling over petty semantics, the point of this thread is to show that Pope Paul VI rejected modernism.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

Here's what Pope St. John Paul II said about modernism:

"In theological enquiry, historicism tends to appear for the most part under the guise of “modernism”. Rightly concerned to make theological discourse relevant and understandable to our time, some theologians use only the most recent opinions and philosophical language, ignoring the critical evaluation which ought to be made of them in the light of the tradition. By exchanging relevance for truth, this form of modernism shows itself incapable of satisfying the demands of truth to which theology is called to respond." - Fides et Ratio

 

[Fantine]

What does Pope Francis say about "modernism?" Or is he too busy trying to promote the Gospel message of Jesus and the spiritual and corporal works of mercy to worry about it?

A Google search lists all sorts of alarmist headlines from ultra-conservative groups.

Pope Francis--a genuine modernist! SSPX
Pope Francis is a dangerous modernist God and the Machine

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/thom-...cern-for-traditional-catholics_b_2936673.html

Why am I not surprised that people are going back four and five decades to find a Pope who is more to their liking?

One "modernist" spiritual practice is mindfulness. Living in the present moment. Not in Pope Paul VI's past. Not in the future.

In the present moment, the Church is led by a transcendent inspirational figure who gives witness to the Gospel not only to Catholics but to non-Catholics all over the world who revere him. Let's appreciate the Pope we have in the present moment.
(I've been waiting for a Pope like Francis to come along since the death of John XXIII, so I am going to enjoy every minute of his Papacy).

 

[pdudgeon]

What does Pope Francis say about "modernism?" Or is he too busy trying to promote the Gospel message of Jesus and the spiritual and corporal works of mercy to worry about it?

A Google search lists all sorts of alarmist headlines from ultra-conservative groups.

Pope Francis--a genuine modernist! SSPX
Pope Francis is a dangerous modernist God and the Machine

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/thom-...cern-for-traditional-catholics_b_2936673.html

Why am I not surprised that people are going back four and five decades to find a Pope who is more to their liking?

One "modernist" spiritual practice is mindfulness. Living in the present moment. Not in Pope Paul VI's past. Not in the future.

In the present moment, the Church is led by a transcendent inspirational figure who gives witness to the Gospel not only to Catholics but to non-Catholics all over the world who revere him. Let's appreciate the Pope we have in the present moment.
(I've been waiting for a Pope like Francis to come along since the death of John XXIII, so I am going to enjoy every minute of his Papacy).

the problem with mindfulness is that it ignores the past and cannot conceive of the future.
as such there is no depth, no relevance, and no relationship between inspiration, contemplation, and action.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

What does Pope Francis say about "modernism?" Or is he too busy trying to promote the Gospel message of Jesus and the spiritual and corporal works of mercy to worry about it?

A Google search lists all sorts of alarmist headlines from ultra-conservative groups.

Pope Francis--a genuine modernist! SSPX
Pope Francis is a dangerous modernist God and the Machine

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/thom-...cern-for-traditional-catholics_b_2936673.html

Why am I not surprised that people are going back four and five decades to find a Pope who is more to their liking?

As post #4 shows, Pope St. John Paul II also condemned modernism, and it's only been about ten years since he was the Pope. Also, your favorite Pope, Pope Francis, canonized him. So, obviously, Pope Francis agrees with Pope St. John Paul II or he wouldn't have canonized him as a saint. And the following quotes by Pope Francis don't sound at all like he's a modernist since a modernist would never say any of these things:

Pope Francis denounces horror of abortion

"It is horrific even to think that there are children, victims of abortion, who will never see the light of day," he said in part of the speech that addressed the rights of children around the world.

"Unfortunately, what is thrown away is not only food and dispensable objects, but often human beings themselves, who are discarded as unnecessary."​

Pope Francis reaffirms that marriage is between one man and one woman

The first setting in which faith enlightens the human city is the family. I think first and foremost of the stable union of man and woman in marriage. This union is born of their love, as a sign and presence of God’s own love, and of the acknowledgment and acceptance of the goodness of sexual differentiation, whereby spouses can become one flesh (cf. Gen 2:24) and are enabled to give birth to a new life, a manifestation of the Creator’s goodness, wisdom and loving plan.​

Pope shocked by same-sex adoptions legislation

The Pope is “shocked” by Malta’s Civil Unions Bill, which will allow gay couples to adopt children, Auxiliary Bishop Charles Scicluna has told The Sunday Times of Malta.​

Vatican denies Pope is open to recognition of gay civil unions

(Reuters) - The Vatican on Sunday denied Italian media reports that recent comments by Pope Francis signaled his openness to the legal recognition of same-sex unions in Italy.​

Pope Francis' Evangelii Gaudium is strongly against the evils of abortion while promoting religious liberty

213. Among the vulnerable for whom the Church wishes to care with particular love and concern are unborn children, the most defenceless and innocent among us. Nowadays efforts are made to deny them their human dignity and to do with them whatever one pleases, taking their lives and passing laws preventing anyone from standing in the way of this. Frequently, as a way of ridiculing the Church’s effort to defend their lives, attempts are made to present her position as ideological, obscurantist and conservative. Yet this defence of unborn life is closely linked to the defence of each and every other human right. It involves the conviction that a human being is always sacred and inviolable, in any situation and at every stage of development.

255. The Synod Fathers spoke of the importance of respect for religious freedom, viewed as a fundamental human right. This includes “the freedom to choose the religion which one judges to be true and to manifest one’s beliefs in public”.​

Pope warns against dangers of 'adolescent progressivism'

Calling attention to the 20th century novel “Lord of the World” which focuses on this spirit of worldliness which leads to apostasy, Pope Francis cautioned against the attitude of wanting “be like everyone else,” which he referred to as an “adolescent progressivism.”​

Pope Francis reaffirms that ordination is for men only

And, with reference to the ordination of women, the Church has spoken and she said : “No.” John Paul II said it, but with a definitive formulation. That is closed, that door is closed, but I’d like to say something about this. I’ve said it, but I repeat it. Our Lady, Mary, was more important than the Apostles, than bishops, deacons and priests. In the Church, woman is more important than bishops and priests; how, it’s what we must seek to make more explicit, because theological explicitness about this is lacking.​

Dissident Aussie priest excommunicated—by Pope Francis?

The order comes direct from the Vatican, not at the request of Melbourne Archbishop Denis Hart​

Pope: There won't be women cardinals

Interviewer: May I ask you if the Church will have women cardinals in the future?

Pope Francis: “I don’t know where this idea sprang from. Women in the Church must be valued not “clericalised”. Whoever thinks of women as cardinals suffers a bit from clericalism."​

It's official: Pope has not abolished sin, says Vatican

VATICAN CITY (Reuters) - The Vatican felt compelled on Tuesday to deny that Pope Francis had "abolished sin", after a well-known Italian intellectual wrote that he had effectively done so through his words and gestures.​

Pope: Guard against deceit of the devil

There are some priests who, when they read this Gospel passage, this and others, say: ‘But, Jesus healed a person with a mental illness’. They do not read this, no? It is true that at that time, they could confuse epilepsy with demonic possession; but it is also true that there was the devil! And we do not have the right to simplify the matter, as if to say: ‘All of these (people) were not possessed; they were mentally ill’. No! The presence of the devil is on the first page of the Bible, and the Bible ends as well with the presence of the devil, with the victory of God over the devil.​

 

[ebia]

Different people mean different things by "modernist".

 

[LivingWordUnity]

Different people mean different things by "modernist".

The Church has defined what She means by modernism. And it describes exactly the beliefs and agenda of what is now called "liberalism" or "progressivism". The only thing that changed about it is the name.

"Modernism might be cited as an example. This is an error which is still making its appearance under various new guises, wholly inconsistent with any genuine religious expression. It is surely an attempt on the part of secular philosophies and secular trends to vitiate the true teaching and discipline of the Church of Christ." - Pope Paul VI​

 

[ebia]

The Church has defined what She means by modernism.

Where

 

[LivingWordUnity]

Where

In the various Papal encyclicals that mention it, one of which I just showed to you.

 

[ebia]

In the various Papal encyclicals that mention it, one of which I just showed to you.

Since we need to examine them, I was waiting for you to post those definition(s)

 

[MikeK]

Also, your favorite Pope, Pope Francis, canonized him. So, obviously, Pope Francis agrees with Pope St. John Paul II or he wouldn't have canonized him as a saint.

Lol! I don't think you understand exactly what canonization is. It is not a personal endorsement by a Pope of every word that the Saint said.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

Since we need to examine them, I was waiting for you to post those definition(s)

Modernism is described in the papal writings which I have already posted. What part of it do you question?

 

[ebia]

Modernism is described in the papal writings which I have already posted. What part of it do you question?

I don't see anything you've quoted so far that begins to define what is meant by modernism, and I think that's the core of your problem. That you aren't working from a clear definition.

So I ask again for you to identify specifically the definition.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

The definition of modernism which the Church condemns, is that religion is a matter of one's own experience and not revelation from God. Religious experiences are based on emotionalism.

It has nothing to do with the progressive or liberal in the politics of our time.

There are many conservatives who would hold to modernism as valid as well as liberals.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

I don't see anything you've quoted so far that begins to define what is meant by modernism, and I think that's the core of your problem. That you aren't working from a clear definition.

So I ask again for you to identify specifically the definition.

If you are asking if the Catholic Church has come out with a dictionary she has not. But the Catholic Church describes what she means by "modernism." And her description of it matches what today is called "progressive." The name changed, but it's the same thing. And the Church has chosen to keep calling it modernism. A perfect example is when the teaching of all the previous Popes is dismissed and a person demands to see only the most up to the minute statement given by the current Pope. A modernist accepts only what they hope the Church will teach in the future, and this reduces the faith to nothing.

 

[Fish and Bread]

If you are asking if the Catholic Church has come out with a dictionary she has not. But the Catholic Church describes what she means by "modernism." And her description of it matches what today is called "progressive."

The Church teaches definitively that health care and the right to be financially supported in the event of old age or disability are basic human rights (cf Pacem En Terris). These are positions that are progressive in nature. You can try to pretend the Church doesn't teach what it teaches or that the teachings with which you disagree are the ones that are conveniently "optional", but if you choose to do so, you'll be guilty of doing exactly what you accuse progressives of doing. Pretty soon, it appears the Pope is going to issue an encyclical, which is a very high level of Catholic teaching, that says that global climate change is real and that society has a moral duty to address it at the governmental level. That, too, is a progressive idea that will soon be a teaching of the Church. The idea that the death penalty should not be imposed when a criminal can be kept from harming others in the future is also a progressive idea that has become Church teaching. In fact, Vatican II explicitly acknowledges that we unpack and better understand doctrine as time goes on, a progressive mindset.

"Traditionalists" who want to reject an ecumenical council of the church and the authoritative teachings of modern Popes, as well as the modern mass, are actually not Roman Catholic traditionalists at all. They're Protestants or schismatics. That is the irony of people like the SSPX. In the name of loyalty to tradition and authority, they break with both.

 

[ebia]

If you are asking if the Catholic Church has come out with a dictionary she has not. But the Catholic Church describes what she means by "modernism."

So far you haven't posted a description that could serve to tell us what it is.

Which leads me to reaffirm what I've said before - that I suspect what you mean by the term and the documents mean by the terms are not the same things.

As FB has pointed out, lots of progressive things like trade unions, social justice, care for the environment, ... have been part of catholic teaching for some time.

Whatever else modernism means, it isn't synonomous (or antimonous) with progressive. However much some use both when the really mean "stuff I disagree with".

 

[LivingWordUnity]

Pope St. Pius X starts his encyclical Pascendi Dominici Gregis with the following:

"The office divinely committed to Us of feeding the Lord's flock has especially this duty assigned to it by Christ, namely, to guard with the greatest vigilance the deposit of the faith delivered to the saints, rejecting the profane novelties of words and oppositions of knowledge falsely so called."​

That describes what the Church is still dealing with today except that the voices that demand for novelty have gotten louder.