Please pray that the next Pope will do the consecration

[Rhamiel]

Communism is in no way, shape, or form, dead. Russia is still spreading her errors throughout the world. Pope John Paul II consecrated the world to Mary, and that is not what she asked. She specifically requested a consecration to RUSSIA. Until that specific consecration of Russia is performed, there will be no peace in the world. Sorry to have to bring you out of whatever fantasy land you're living in.

I would like to see Russia consecrated to the Immaculate Heart of Mary

but I am afraid that such an act would upset the Eastern Orthodox Church

 

[SpiritualAntiseptic]

This is a VERY nasty sticking point for we Orthodox. I must say plainly that it is an insult to say that Russia needs to be consecrated to the Theotokos. Russia for centuries was the shining light of Orthodoxy and dedicated advocate for Marian devotion. Today, Russia has an intense devotion to the Mother of God. To say that Russia needs a consecration that she has already had for centuries, it's insulting.

When people say, "Boy, I think the Orthodox are going to merge with Rome someday soon!" and then turn around and insult Holy Orthodoxy with statements like this, it's ironic indeed....

Russia became a anti-religion state dedicated to the heresy of communism. It happened because the people volunteered to fight against the Tzar. It has been consecrated since that time.

 

[SpiritualAntiseptic]

It's up to you to believe me or not. The consecration asked by Our Lady has not been done satisfactorily. Otherwise
- there would be peace in the world
- Obama won't be doing his anti-Christian campaign
- there won't be anymore gun shootings
- communist China won't be persecuting Christians anymore.

Don't be so gullible, just compare sister Lucia's photos before and after 1947. Are they really the same person ??

So now the Church is in a big conspiracy? You are headed down a dark path.

The world isn't going to be perfect.

 

[thereselittleflower]

It's up to you to believe me or not. The consecration asked by Our Lady has not been done satisfactorily. Otherwise
- there would be peace in the world
- Obama won't be doing his anti-Christian campaign
- there won't be anymore gun shootings
- communist China won't be persecuting Christians anymore.

Don't be so gullible, just compare sister Lucia's photos before and after 1947. Are they really the same person ??

What you are speaking of is a messianic golden age.

You are misinterpreting the message of Fatima. We are not promised such a golden age within history. There will be no end to the tribulations the Church suffers. Be careful . . you are not the judge of what is fulfillment of the message of Our Lady, nothing gives us authority to make such pronouncements. There is nothing in the message that forces "peace" means what you claim it means.

Beware of accusing the Church.

 

[Antigone]

Communism is in no way, shape, or form, dead. Russia is still spreading her errors throughout the world. Pope John Paul II consecrated the world to Mary, and that is not what she asked. She specifically requested a consecration to RUSSIA. Until that specific consecration of Russia is performed, there will be no peace in the world. Sorry to have to bring you out of whatever fantasy land you're living in.

You are getting at least three things mixed up. Russia is largly orthodox and that has nothing to do with communism, which banned Catholicism and Orthodoxy both. Russia is no longer communist; communism refers to a set of economic and governmental principles, which they have abandoned for a democracy (in name, at least) and capitalism. Many points can be made about how Russia has lost its ways but communism is not one of them.

Rambling posts like this finishing up with accusing someone else of living in fantasy land are, to put it mildly, somewhat ironic.

For future reference, the only countries operating under a communist banner are Vietnam, Cuba and North Korea. China might share its governmental system but has a capitalist economy.

 

[thereselittleflower]

Communism is in no way, shape, or form, dead. Russia is still spreading her errors throughout the world. Pope John Paul II consecrated the world to Mary, and that is not what she asked. She specifically requested a consecration to RUSSIA. Until that specific consecration of Russia is performed, there will be no peace in the world. Sorry to have to bring you out of whatever fantasy land you're living in.

Are you aware that this message from our Lady is not part of othe deposit of faith, is not divine revelation, and that we are not required to believe the message with Catholic faith?

It seems like you are putting this one same level as Sacred Tradition. It's not. And since these private revelations are given to us for devotional purposes to help us in our personal spiritual growth, no one can EVER be said to be living in a fantasy land because they don't agree with another on what it actually all means.

In fact, to hold up the messages of Fatima in such a way to use against another must grieve our Holy Mother greatly.

There will be no further Revelation

66 "The Christian economy, therefore, since it is the new and definitive Covenant, will never pass away; and no new public revelation is to be expected before the glorious manifestation of our Lord Jesus Christ."28 Yet even if Revelation is already complete, it has not been made completely explicit; it remains for Christian faith gradually to grasp its full significance over the course of the centuries.

67 Throughout the ages, there have been so-called "private" revelations, some of which have been recognized by the authority of the Church. They do not belong, however, to the deposit of faith. It is not their role to improve or complete Christ's definitive Revelation, but to help live more fully by it in a certain period of history. Guided by the Magisterium of the Church, the sensus fidelium knows how to discern and welcome in these revelations whatever constitutes an authentic call of Christ or his saints to the Church.

Christian faith cannot accept "revelations" that claim to surpass or correct the Revelation of which Christ is the fulfillment, as is the case in certain non-Christian religions and also in certain recent sects which base themselves on such "revelations".

​

Pope Benedict XIV

Although an assent of Catholic faith may not be given to revelations thus approved, still, an assent of human faith, made according to the rules of prudence, is due them; for according to these rules such revelations are probable and worthy of pious credence. [De Serv. Dei Beatif.]


it is possible to refuse to accept such revelations and to turn from them, as long as one does so with proper modesty, for good reasons, and without the intention of setting himself up as a superior. [De Serv. Dei Beatif.]

​

 

[Fantine]

First of all, the Pope has no recognized authority over Russia, so if he were to consecrate Russia it would be nothing more than a waste of time and incense.

Secondly, Mary doesn't need an invitation (or a consecration) to watch over, protect, or heal Russia (whatever "consecration" is supposed to do). She can make her own decisions.

And my impression of this thread is that those who want the Pope to consecrate Russia are the ones who are living in fantasy land.

You want world peace? Start out by practicing peace in your own heart. By creating a peaceful environment in your home. In your workplace. In your parish. Look for the unspoken prayers of others and, in small ways perhaps, "answer" them as God's surrogate.

 

[Rhamiel]

First of all, the Pope has no recognized authority over Russia, so if he were to consecrate Russia it would be nothing more than a waste of time and incense.

Secondly, Mary doesn't need an invitation (or a consecration) to watch over, protect, or heal Russia (whatever "consecration" is supposed to do). She can make her own decisions.

And my impression of this thread is that those who want the Pope to consecrate Russia are the ones who are living in fantasy land.

You want world peace? Start out by practicing peace in your own heart. By creating a peaceful environment in your home. In your workplace. In your parish. Look for the unspoken prayers of others and, in small ways perhaps, "answer" them as God's surrogate.

some people for the consecration HAVE rather... extravagant... expectations of what they will expect this to accomplish
But I still think it would be a good thing

secondly, the Pope is the Vicar of Christ, so his jurisdiction is universal.

 

[copypasta254]

praying for this!

 

[SpiritualAntiseptic]

First of all, the Pope has no recognized authority over Russia, so if he were to consecrate Russia it would be nothing more than a waste of time and incense.

Secondly, Mary doesn't need an invitation (or a consecration) to watch over, protect, or heal Russia (whatever "consecration" is supposed to do). She can make her own decisions.

And my impression of this thread is that those who want the Pope to consecrate Russia are the ones who are living in fantasy land.

You want world peace? Start out by practicing peace in your own heart. By creating a peaceful environment in your home. In your workplace. In your parish. Look for the unspoken prayers of others and, in small ways perhaps, "answer" them as God's surrogate.

The Pope has authority over the whole world.

 

[Angeldove97]

I have noticed that among more "traditional" Catholics (at least on some internet forums) there has been talk of hoping that the [next?] pope consecrates Russia. I'm wondering, where is this coming from all of a sudden? I know Russia was consecrated in the past.

I read a lot of propaganda that is now being repeated word-for-word by some members about the Pope not properly consecrating Russia. As a traditional Catholic, I was alarmed that the Church would ignore our Blessed Mother's plea and then I realized that that kind of thinking didn't really make sense.

I've joined a few Fatima communities for the sake of understanding my Brothers and Sisters, but I remain loyal to my Church. If the Pope and priests are backing what has been done to consecrate Russia (and remember Russia was not the same Russia we have now-a-days- I wonder why our Blessed Mother never said anything about the nation breaking apart into many nations?), then my heart remains with them. I don't think any priest would know better than the Pope.

I also think that we're hearing more about this because more Fatima organizations are starting to become "big business"- like some other Catholic organizations. They'll happily send you lots of newsletters to support what they're saying and will send out the mail in masses in hopes of getting donations sent back for their causes.

 

[Angeldove97]

Russia is no longer communist; communism refers to a set of economic and governmental principles, which they have abandoned for a democracy (in name, at least) and capitalism.

Russia is nothing by run by old KGB members- that nation is doomed and I weep for my family who is stuck there. Their government is a joke and I can't wait until Putin is done for.

 

[thereselittleflower]

First of all, the Pope has no recognized authority over Russia, so if he were to consecrate Russia it would be nothing more than a waste of time and incense.

Secondly, Mary doesn't need an invitation (or a consecration) to watch over, protect, or heal Russia (whatever "consecration" is supposed to do). She can make her own decisions.

And my impression of this thread is that those who want the Pope to consecrate Russia are the ones who are living in fantasy land.

You want world peace? Start out by practicing peace in your own heart. By creating a peaceful environment in your home. In your workplace. In your parish. Look for the unspoken prayers of others and, in small ways perhaps, "answer" them as God's surrogate.

Then you're saying Mary asked for something she had no right to ask for?

How do you think the Pope has no jurisdiction to consecrate any country? The Pope can consecrate any country he wishes to. This is not a political issue. This is a spiritual issue. The Pope is over the universal Church and as such is over everywhere the Church is or can be or will be. The Pope acts in place of Christ. To say the Pope has no authority over a segement of this planet is to say Christ has no authority of a segment of this planet. The conclusion is perposterous and so is the claim.

Mary specifically asked for something . Why do you speak against her?

 

[thereselittleflower]

I read a lot of propaganda that is now being repeated word-for-word by some members about the Pope not properly consecrating Russia. As a traditional Catholic, I was alarmed that the Church would ignore our Blessed Mother's plea and then I realized that that kind of thinking didn't really make sense.

I've joined a few Fatima communities for the sake of understanding my Brothers and Sisters, but I remain loyal to my Church. If the Pope and priests are backing what has been done to consecrate Russia (and remember Russia was not the same Russia we have now-a-days- I wonder why our Blessed Mother never said anything about the nation breaking apart into many nations?), then my heart remains with them. I don't think any priest would know better than the Pope.

I also think that we're hearing more about this because more Fatima organizations are starting to become "big business"- like some other Catholic organizations. They'll happily send you lots of newsletters to support what they're saying and will send out the mail in masses in hopes of getting donations sent back for their causes.

Russia did not break apart. The Soviet Union did. Mary did not ask for the consecration of the Soviet Union. She asked for the consecration of Russa.

Many things happened after the consecration, including the break up of the Soviet Union through which the errors were being spread. The Soviet Union ended.

Mary did not say that Russia would be error free. She said Russia would stop spreading its errors. With the breakup of the Soviet Union, Russia's power to spread it's errors ended.

 

[Cosmic Charlie]

At the risk of sounding stupid what are Russia's errors ?

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

a) I never said that I was insulted
b) I never "attacked" your beliefs

I have not upbraideded anything.

Imagine if we Orthodox told you guys that Rome needed to be consecrated to the Theotokos and that somehow the heart and soul of Western Christendom was lacking Marian consecration, so we're going to have our Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople go to Rome and bless it! It implies something lacking in your patriarch there, something unfullfilled, incomplete.

By the way, Holy Orthodox Church is a better label than Eastern Orthodox. It may seem nuance, but I personally hate the term "Roman Catholic" that some Orthodox incorrectly use. It is technically "The Catholic Church." That is what your communion wants to be called, so I call it that.

Russia was atheistic in secular terms, but surely you're wise enough to know the heavy outpouring of devotion to Holy Orthodoxy in Russia despite cruel Soviet persecution, right? Russia was already consecrated to the Theotokos by Russian patriarchs, bishops, and priests. There is no need to re-consecrate a nation. To say it is required implies the consecrations to the Blessed Theotokos by Russian Orthodox patriarchs is somehow lacking.....now, being a reasonable and thoughtful person, can you not see how that could be taken as an insult?

I am not attacking a belief, but rather making a statement that this is a divisive and, imho, moot issue. Bringing it up after it's considered by many if not most Catholics a dead issue, is to foster bad feelings with the Orthodox, whom so many Catholics wish to reunite with someday. If they are sincere about such reunion, then respecting the Orthodox in this matteris important I would think, right?

We always welcome your prayers and value them, but we don't welcome re-consecrations. It's unnecessary and sends a message.

I am aware that this is your "living room." I haven't messed up the couch, love seat, chairs, coffee table, or paintings. No broken stuff. I'm merely giving you a perspective. If someone were to mention this in TAW, I wouldn't see it as an attack.

My priest came to our home tonight to bless it. We were talking about the Catholic Church and speculating who would be your next pope. We agreed that the Church has some good guys from which to choose and we hope that they get another Ratzinger/B16 pope who is faithful to traditions and has such a balanced approach. My priest likes Benedict a lot. He's said that to me on MANY occasions. Yes, we disagree with you guys on several key things, but in the end respect you and wish you the best. I think that's a given. The Catholic Church does too much good for the world and stands firmly against evil too much to be taken lightly....

No one has insulted you or the EO here. If you feel insulted then this is something you are bringing with you here into our home.

This may be how you feel, but you must realize there are going to be those points of disagreement between the EO and the Catholic Church. But that doens't give either the right to go into the other's forum and insult or upbraid the other Church by saying how insulting their actions or beliefs are, etc.

This is not the place to attack our belief.

In our point of view, the Pope is over the entire Church and the entire world is under his care and it is most appropriate and right for him to do as our Lady has requested and consecrate Russia to Her especially when Russia was an atheistic nation governed by atheistic laws. It is with a pastors' heart it was done, not to lord it over the EO.

We are not in agreement and we understand you don't like some of what we believe or do. But this is OBOB - please respect our feelings in our own living room, especially during Lent.

IMHO, if anything one would think in Christian charity the EO should welcome our prayers as we would welcome theirs. This is not a competition, and that anyone would attempt to make it so must deeply grieve the Holy Spirit and The Theotokos.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

I think we're approaching this the wrong way. Russia may be run secularly by some hardliners, but is the nation religiously in a crisis? The Russian Orthodox Church is successfully winning the war against secular humanism in the form of abortion and homosexuality. They are keeping these sins dead in the water. They are also fighting blasphemy as you might've noticed in recent news stories where a punk rock band blasphemed the Theotokos and were thrown in jail for it. The Russian Orthodox are going through a renaissance since the fall of the Soviet Union. They are building cathedrals, churches, and restoring the nation to Christ. On the secular front, Putin is a putz, if you ask me, but he's supportive of the Church.

In the U.S. we're pro-abortion, pro-gay, pro anything, and our church attendance is awful.

How is Russia doomed? Financially with their natural gas and oil pipelines and technological advances, they're financially on fire! Moscow has more millionaires than any city in the world. They're restoring the Christian faith and maintaining morality better than we are, so maybe we're doomed? Just a thought?

Russia is nothing by run by old KGB members- that nation is doomed and I weep for my family who is stuck there. Their government is a joke and I can't wait until Putin is done for.

 

[thereselittleflower]

At the risk of sounding stupid what are Russia's errors ?

I am referring to the atheistic communinism Russia spread through the growing Soviet Union.

The vision of Fatima was given in 1917 - at the beginning of what would become the Soviet Union, between 1917 and 1921 known as Soviet Russia:

...former northern Eurasian empire (1917/22–1991) stretching from the Baltic and Black seas to the Pacific Ocean and, in its final years, consisting of 15 Soviet Socialist Republics (S.S.R.’s)–Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belorussia (now Belarus), Estonia, Georgia, Kazakhstan, Kirgiziya (now Kyrgyzstan), Latvia, Lithuania, Moldavia (now Moldova), Russia, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Ukraine, and Uzbekistan. The capital was Moscow, then and now the capital of Russia.

​

Events begin in January 1917.

The apparitions of Our Lady of Fatima begins May 13th.

 

[Fantine]

I have not heard anyone talk about Fatima since I was in seventh grade or so (circa early 1960's) and so I looked it up on Wikipedia.

And so luckily I am able to set your minds at ease, because Russia was consecrated by Pope Pius XII in the early 1950's.

Pope Pius XII, in his Apostolic Letter Sacro Vergente of 7 July 1952, consecrated Russia to the Blessed Virgin Mary. Pius XII wrote,

Just as a few years ago We consecrated the entire human race to the Immaculate Heart of the Virgin Mary, Mother of God, so today We consecrate and in a most special manner We entrust all the peoples of Russia to this Immaculate Heart...[27]

I hope this makes you all feel better.
Our Lady of Fátima - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Rhamiel]

At the risk of sounding stupid what are Russia's errors ?

that is a good question
I would say that it was the collectivism that dehumanizes the individual.
this can be done in communism or capitalism

I think that the errors that started in Russia did spread to the rest of the world
first in the Fascism of Europe in the 1930's
and also in a morally bankrupt capitalism that we have the western world now.