please i need help

[Dylan_Chica]

hi all, i'm new to the forum, i'm a 22 year old english-nigerian born and raised in london and i'm a catholic, but most of my friends are non-christians. i was having this debate with one of my friends about creation and evolution and everything (she's an atheist), and we didn't really finish the discussion because she just told me i can't prove anything so i'm wrong, and i know this sounds really stupid but can somebody with a little more knowledge than me help me with what to say? i'm a strong believer and i believe everything in the bible, i really do, but i just don't know how to explain it to her i mean i know that god created the earth in six days and the story about adam and eve and everything but how can i convince her? i'm not trying to convert her but i just want to "fight" back, you know? i really need some guidance on this, can any of you explain creation to me so that i can use it in a debate with her? it would really mean alot! thank you

 

[Dannager]

hi all, i'm new to the forum, i'm a 22 year old english-nigerian born and raised in london and i'm a catholic, but most of my friends are non-christians. i was having this debate with one of my friends about creation and evolution and everything (she's an atheist), and we didn't really finish the discussion because she just told me i can't prove anything so i'm wrong, and i know this sounds really stupid but can somebody with a little more knowledge than me help me with what to say? i'm a strong believer and i believe everything in the bible, i really do, but i just don't know how to explain it to her i mean i know that god created the earth in six days and the story about adam and eve and everything but how can i convince her? i'm not trying to convert her but i just want to "fight" back, you know? i really need some guidance on this, can any of you explain creation to me so that i can use it in a debate with her? it would really mean alot! thank you

Not to rain on your parade or anything, Dylan_Chica, but your faith icon denotes you as Catholic. The official position of the Catholic church is that evolutionary theory provides the best explanation for the currently observed biodiversity on earth, and that the earth is on the order of a few billion years old. There is a lot of evidence to support both evolutionary theory and an old earth. Who taught you that evolution is false and why?

 

[Dylan_Chica]

i am a catholic yes and if you read my post you would also see that, but going to church and the catholic church's teachings is not the most important part of my faith, i mean it is important to go to mass and i do every sunday but the most important thing to me is my faith in jesus christ in my heart and what i read in the bible. please try to understand my position, throughout school i had to deal with teachers trying to teach me that the bible is wrong, and i have read the bible since i was a little girl and i refuse to believe it is wrong

 

[Dannager]

i am a catholic yes and if you read my post you would also see that, but going to church and the catholic church's teachings is not the most important part of my faith, i mean it is important to go to mass and i do every sunday but the most important thing to me is my faith in jesus christ in my heart and what i read in the bible. please try to understand my position

I understand that you hold a YEC position, but I'm curious as to why you hold it. If you belonged to a church that taught such a thing it would be expected, but as you don't belong to such a church I simply wonder if someone else taught you from a YEC standpoint. Did anyone help you with your position or is it a conclusion you came to on your own?

 

[Dylan_Chica]

I understand that you hold a YEC position, but I'm curious as to why you hold it. If you belonged to a church that taught such a thing it would be expected, but as you don't belong to such a church I simply wonder if someone else taught you from a YEC standpoint. Did anyone help you with your position or is it a conclusion you came to on your own?

first of all, what is YEC? i was raised in a catholic home and i read the bible everyday, i'm not a biblar scholar or anything, i go to mass and listen and i read the bible, what the bible has taught me is what i believe, i have never talked to a priest who has explained evolution or creation so how can you say my faith is at conflict with anything when all i know is i believe in catholic faith (the importance of prayers to mary and the succession of the chair of st. peter is part of my beliefs) and that i'm a strong believer in the bible. i'm not part of any christian community, my church isn't the most social place for me i just greet people and listen

 

[Dannager]

first of all, what is YEC?

A Young Earth Creationist - someone who believes in a literal interpretation of the Genesis account and that the earth is approximately 6,000 years old.

i was raised in a catholic home and i read the bible everyday, i'm not a biblar scholar or anything, i go to mass and listen and i read the bible, what the bible has taught me is what i believe, i have never talked to a priest who has explained evolution or creation so how can you say my faith is at conflict with anything when all i know is i believe in catholic faith (the importance of prayers to mary and the succession of the chair of st. peter is part of my beliefs) and that i'm a strong believer in the bible.

Ah, alright. That's actually kind of refreshing to hear, since most creationists who post here have been indoctrinated by other people. Have you ever given consideration to the idea that the Genesis account might be allegorical in nature? If you'd like that explained in more detail I'd be happy to.

i'm not part of any christian community, my church isn't the most social place for me i just greet people and listen

Perfectly understandable, then.

 

[Dylan_Chica]

A Young Earth Creationist - someone who believes in a literal interpretation of the Genesis account and that the earth is approximately 6,000 years old.

Ah, alright. That's actually kind of refreshing to hear, since most creationists who post here have been indoctrinated by other people. Have you ever given consideration to the idea that the Genesis account might be allegorical in nature? If you'd like that explained in more detail I'd be happy to.

Perfectly understandable, then.

can i be honest with you, i know i'm not the smartest person alive, i don't know what "allegorical" means? i would REALLY like to discuss this with you which is why i'm so glad i found this forum, i'm kind of unsure when it comes to creation, and let me try to explain, in school when we were taught about evolution it made me frustrated because they didn't teach what i believed but only what they believed, i don't understand how the earth can be billions of years old and everything just evolved from a little bacteria or something, or that we come from monkeys, i don't understand it and why, if it happened that way, did god wait for billions of years to create adam and eve? i hope you understand what i mean, thank you for helping me with this, it means alot

 

[mark kennedy]

First of all you cannot explain creation to an atheist, I've tried and you allways come back to the same thing. You are trying to prove the activity of something your friend rejected before you started to speak. Just as darkness is the absense of light, atheism is the absense of God. Light has physical properties, it can be measured, refracted and expose everything in the room. Atheism is the void.

Second of all, if this is your friend then you talk to your friend as your friend. Try this, ask your friend for proof that you love your mother, children or your pet bird. What kind of scientific proof does your friend have for love? No atheist would ever accept proof for something theological so try something a little closer to home.

Two very important things to remember here, first of all it's not your responsiblity to 'prove' God to anyone. You might try asking if your friend can produce a bucket of blue time. Puzzled he/she will probably act as if you have lost your mind. Then you simply explain, time is a self evident reality, you don't prove there is such a thing as time, you just measure how much has passed from one point to another. Second, your friend does have proof, whether he/she likes it or not whether he/she admits it or not.

This is very important and I don't want you to lose sight of this. Being an atheist is not as easy as it seems, there is a God shaped place in your friends heart. If you can't get your friend to listen and all else fails you can allways resort to prayer. Ultimatly it is God that proves His own existance in His own way, if God needed you to prove His existance then He would not be God would He?

If there is anything along the lines of proof for the reliablity of Scripture feel free to ask. Just remember one thing and never underestimate the importance of confidence in this very thing:

For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead so that they are without excuse. (Romans 1:20)

If one of my friends said they had no proof for God I would simply tell them, there is no excuse for that, you would have to be blind not to see the proof in the things that God made.

Grace and peace,
Mark

 

[Dannager]

can i be honest with you, i know i'm not the smartest person alive, i don't know what "allegorical" means? i would REALLY like to discuss this with you which is why i'm so glad i found this forum, i'm kind of unsure when it comes to creation, and let me try to explain, in school when we were taught about evolution it made me frustrated because they didn't teach what i believed but only what they believed, i don't understand how the earth can be billions of years old and everything just evolved from a little bacteria or something, or that we come from monkeys, i don't understand it and why, if it happened that way, did god wait for billions of years to create adam and eve? i hope you understand what i mean, thank you for helping me with this, it means alot

Would it be alright to take the discussion to Private Messages, Dylan_Chica? It would derail the thread to start discussing allegorical interpretations of Genesis in a thread on advice for talking to atheists, I think. Let me know.

 

[Dylan_Chica]

i will pm you now, thank you

 

[chaoschristian]

hi all, i'm new to the forum, i'm a 22 year old english-nigerian born and raised in london and i'm a catholic, but most of my friends are non-christians. i was having this debate with one of my friends about creation and evolution and everything (she's an atheist), and we didn't really finish the discussion because she just told me i can't prove anything so i'm wrong, and i know this sounds really stupid but can somebody with a little more knowledge than me help me with what to say? i'm a strong believer and i believe everything in the bible, i really do, but i just don't know how to explain it to her i mean i know that god created the earth in six days and the story about adam and eve and everything but how can i convince her? i'm not trying to convert her but i just want to "fight" back, you know? i really need some guidance on this, can any of you explain creation to me so that i can use it in a debate with her? it would really mean alot! thank you

Do not 'fight' back. That will get you nothing but ill will and an ex-friend.

Instead, shut up and start listening to what your friend has to say. Find out what is important to her and why she values it. Find out if she accepts evolutionary theory as a matter of being atheist, or if she independently accepts it on the basis of the evidence. Keep asking questions, honest questions, and really get to know where she stands on the issue.

Then, shut up. Your belief is a matter of faith founded upon grace. If you choose to believe in a literal 6 day creation, then know that you are doing so as a matter of belief, and not naturalistic science. Since you cannot make a case for your position using naturalistic science and empirical evidence, you will not be able to assert an argument that your atheist friend will respect. Trust me on this.

Keep your faith. Keep your friend. God does not need you to 'fight' for Him on this.

 

[Mallon]

My advice: listen to Dannager and chaoschristian.

 

[Dannager]

I'd like to say that in the few messages I've exchanged with Dylan_Chica I have been thoroughly impressed with her attitude and honesty. And holy moly, she actually asks questions.

 

[rmwilliamsll]

when you have spiritual problems or questions the place to go is to the eldership of your church. as a Christian they are our primary resource. talk to your Pastor or elders about what is bothering you about the issues.

 

[Pats]

I don't really see a conflict between Mark's advice and Chaos' advice.

My advice is kind of a blend of the two. Listening to your friend, taking an interest in how they came to their conclusions is very important. How can you expect them to listen to you if you have not listened to them?

Usually, a good friend might take an interest in wanting to know how and why you came to your conclusions as well. One thing another person cannot refute is your personal testimony.

But before any of that can take place, PRAY! PRAY! PRAY for your friend. Pray that if God chooses to use you in this person's life, that He will take away your own words and speak through you.

Also, as some others here have said, creationism isn't a scientific matter, it's a matter of faith. Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

I would also seek out a spiritual leader you can respect for answers to questions. If I had huge theological differences from my own church leaders, I would seek another church. Just my opinion.