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personal stories of people born with both genitalia

Discussion in 'Archived - Ethics & Morality' started by HuManiTeE, Nov 20, 2004.

  1. HuManiTeE

    HuManiTeE New Member

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    http://www.healthyplace.com/communities/gender/intersexuals/intersexed_bulletin_board.asp


    first off, to the mods- this is no way a pornographic link. it is a serious community of people I have found, of people who happen to be born with both genitilia and they give their life experience on this website. As far as I can tell this is in no way anything pornographic.
    I think it is important considering the current debate between peoples concerning the sinfulnes of homosexuality.
    Because it is fact that people are born with both sex organs, fuzzy gender.
    I am confused about this subject. Some christians say this is a black and white issue. Others say it is not.
    As a christian I am confused as to what to think about this.
    These testimonys at the link , some are very sad and I can understand that some people go thru hell trying to figure out their own self identity When born with both sets of genetilia,
    what do you guys think? it gender a fuzzy issue? is it really fair to judge people according to sexual preference?
    I know this is a touchy issue. I hope not too step on any toes with this thread,
     
  2. an7222

    an7222 Rational morality is a must

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    Gender is not a black and white issue. Nobody is 100% male nor 100% female. Nobody is 100% heterosexual nor 100% homosexual. The truth is that we have sex desires regardless of the gender. It's not binary.
     
  3. Stinker

    Stinker Senior Veteran

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    Some men are born with a female mentality and some women are born with a male mentality. Some men are born with female genitalia and some women are born with male genitalia.

    "For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it." (Mt.19:12)


    The Opening Post does not address 'sexual desire' of the afflicted person. So, from my experience on this subject from other debate boards, this is not a Homosexual issue. The pro-gay people on those boards say that a 'gay' man or woman, will appear as normal physically and mentally as anyone else. However, these normal people will only be sexually attracted to those of their sex.
     
  4. jaimegerise

    jaimegerise New Member

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    I've seen TV shows on the issue of folks born with both sex organs....That has to be rough...especially trying to figure out which should the person lean towards to become in life, or whether or not to do anything at all.

    Just one more reason to look to God for guidance!
     
  5. Randall McNally

    Randall McNally Secrecy and accountability cannot coexist.

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    Not quite. The most common determinants - Gametic sex and genotypic sex - usually result in individuals that are either wholly female or wholly male.
    This I agree with.
     
  6. Ave Maria

    Ave Maria Ave Maria Gratia Plena

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    If I had been born like that, I definitely would have gotten surgery done to correct it. Would that be ethical according to most Christians?
     
  7. mpshiel

    mpshiel Senior Veteran

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    God yes, Christians no.

    Basically the Christian organizational stance on things like this is "If it has the word sex (such as "sex organ") in it or we don't understand it....then it is probably evil and while I may not have any scripture to back that up, best discriminate against those people anyway" (if you do not believe me, just go and check up the Catholic positions on Intersex and Transsexuals, the Evangelical Alliance, along with some of the "moral" resolutions that passed recently specially forbidding intersex and transsexuals from getting married.....to anyone (by the by, the new Attorney General is the one that Bush had search out and remove marriage certificates from transsexuals when he was the Governor of Texas).

    There is something seriously problematic when ultra conservative nations like Iran, Japan and China can accept things like Intersex and Transsexuality as a medical condition, grant full rights to the individuals and move on while certain religious groups in the US start building theories about "Transsexual Agenda's"

    By the by, Lisa from Swansea (down the road from me) who was misdiagnosed as male instead of female has a career singing for movies (including galaxy Quest and Lord of the Rings) because of her EIGHT octave range due to the amounts of testosterone the doctors pumped into her at puberty trying to overcome the ostrogen. Thankfully, doctors are a little better now.
     
  8. Ananel

    Ananel Half-mad apologist

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    Your own passage condemns your position, for you would deny those who have strong sexual desire the capacity of marriage. What if they would not receive it? Christ doesn't demand that they receive celibacy as a gift, but rather simply says that those who can may. You imply that they are born as eunuchs, and eunuch (unless you've got some info squirreled away on the context of ancient world eunuchs) does not refer to hermaphrodites or intersexed individuals. The scriptures, within your own passage, identify the need and freedom to marry for those who cannot receive that lesson of the eunuch. The passage goes on in this regard, as does Paul's similar passage.

    Why is this matter important in the homosexual marriage debate? Genesis 1 and 2 state that "Male and female he made them." Some have taken this and the first marriage to be establishment of Natural Law. This cannot be true if creation implies that more than male and female exists, as God does not handle the other cases in Genesis 1-3. It further cannot be true if God disobeys the supposedly established natural law (2 Samuel 12, establishing polygamous relationship and supporting it; the passage you cited and I believe one out of 1 corinthians 7, establishing celibacy as noble, despite the claim in Genesis that it is not good for man to be alone. If it were natural law, then marriage would be at the very least strongly suggested, if not required eventually.).

    So, the presence and needs of intersexuals rather thoroughly implicates on homosexual debates, as their very existence is an argument against the establishment of Natural Law in Genesis 1-3.
     
  9. dkara

    dkara Guest

    I've always said that it is easier to have a broken bone than a broken heart--cause everyone sees the cast on the leg or arm and thinks, "oh poor baby.'

    Same with ambiguous genitalia. It can be seen and folks think, "oh poor baby."

    And I think homosexuality could be the inner wires of sexuality being twisted--male body + male desire. But we can't 'see' the wires so it is condemed.

    Would that we could see the inner workings of everyone and there'd be more understanding. But since we can't. Why not just abstain from judgement?
     
  10. jesusfreak3786

    jesusfreak3786 Senior Veteran

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    A person born with two sets of genitalia have the chromisomes (xy or xx) that would make them distictly male of female, I don't see the confusion. The person can get a blood test and find out if they are male of female. I still think homosexuality is wrong. I'm sorry if I sound insensitive.
     
  11. Ananel

    Ananel Half-mad apologist

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    You sound not only insensitive, but uneducated on the issue. (Note: I did not just call you stupid. You are, however, not fully educated on the nature of intersexual syndromes, and have demonstrated this by saying that all intersexuals would have XX or XY chromosonal pairs.)

    http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/000379.htm

    The Turner Syndrome is an example of a syndrome associated with intersexuality that shows a lack of the proper XX and XY configuration. The Turner Syndrome possesses only the X. Yes, in the case of the Turner Syndrome, the subject is generally labelled female, but this serves primarily as an example for you.

    A series of different genetic and hormonal factors affect a person who is intersexual. Some will possess the XX or XY set, but others will not. You cannot use even that apparently simple method to verify gender, as there are cases that will refuse to identify themselves according to it.

    Further, what do you say of the (admittedly incredibly rare) people who have both sets of genitalia? Yes, they are generally incapable of childbirth, but where you have sufficient genetic and/or hormonal factors to develop a full set of both genitalia, how do you respond? What if they don't have XX or XY?

    You cannot simply cop-out the answer to the needs of intersexuals, especially the rare full hermaphrodites, by checking to see which chromosomes they have with a blood test.

    (And this doesn't even get into the complications of chimerism.)
     
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