Perhaps the best synopsis of the Threat of a Trump presidency I've ever seen.

[RKO]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wa...6-aa14-e0c1087f7583_story.html?client=safari#

 

[Antigone]

Interesting article.

The best possible outcome for a Trump presidency, I think, is that, one month in, he discovers that being president is a lot of work and he STILL can't do exactly what he wants so he hands off as many duties as possible while he goes off to play golf in Scotland, as he believes they like him there because nobody's had the heart to tell him what the word 'bawbag' really means.

 

[Sultan Of Swing]

Interesting article.

The best possible outcome for a Trump presidency, I think, is that, one month in, he discovers that being president is a lot of work and he STILL can't do exactly what he wants so he hands off as many duties as possible while he goes off to play golf in Scotland, as he believes they like him there because nobody's had the heart to tell him what the word 'bawbag' really means.

Of all the criticisms of Trump I've heard, I haven't heard him being lazy, that's for sure. I don't think hard work would be an issue for him.

 

[Antigone]

Of all the criticisms of Trump I've heard, I haven't heard him being lazy, that's for sure. I don't think hard work would be an issue for him.

To be fair, I don't think he'd do it out of laziness. I meant 'hard' in the sense of 'difficult' (should have chosen a different expression, sorry). I can't see him do anything he doesn't want to do and I think Trump is fine with working hard - running a campaign is a lot of work - but the frustrations inherent in the job (from political opponents foreign and domestic), I think, would put a quick stop to his enthusiasm.

 

[MoonlessNight]

From the article:

His contempt for constitutional norms might reveal the nation’s two-century-old experiment in checks and balances to be more fragile than we knew.

The current government's contempt for the constitution, from the courts to the legislature to the current president, has already revealed that the system of checks and balances is more fragile than we had hoped. I can't take someone seriously who believes that things are fine now but will only start to fall apart when Trump gets elected.

 

[AvilaSurfer]

Nothing would be as bad as putting that slime ball on the other side in the White House.

 

[Antigone]

Nothing would be as bad as putting that slime ball on the other side in the White House.

...And there is the well-constructed critique of the article in question that we've all come to know and love on OBOB.

 

[Antigone]

From the article:
The current government's contempt for the constitution, from the courts to the legislature to the current president, has already revealed that the system of checks and balances is more fragile than we had hoped. I can't take someone seriously who believes that things are fine now but will only start to fall apart when Trump gets elected.

When you say 'current government', do you mean the presidency and cabinet or the senate and/or house? And in which way do you believe they've undermined the current political system?

 

[LivingWordUnity]

Democrats know that Trump is going to win. That's why they are so worried.

 

[Antigone]

Democrats know that Trump is going to win. That's why they are so worried.

Democrats and the rest of the world.

 

[Sultan Of Swing]

Democrats and the rest of the world.

Of course they're worried, they'd need to start paying their fair share for their own defence, at least pay the 2% NATO requirement!

 

[MoonlessNight]

When you say 'current government', do you mean the presidency and cabinet or the senate and/or house?

Yes.

And in which way do you believe they've undermined the current political system?

The examples have become the standard operating procedure.

But the point where it became clear to me was Obama's attack on Libya. He didn't care whether he had the authority to declare war, Congress didn't want to take responsibility and in fact only acted to avoid using their authority, and generally the opinion of those in government was "if he makes the orders and people follow him, then its legal." There were a few people who actually tried to pay attention to the constitution in all of this (like Rand Paul and Dennis Kucinich), but they were well in the minority and they accomplished nothing.

But that's only one small example from five years ago. There have been a multitude more since then. If you haven't seen any, you either don't know the constitution or you aren't paying attention.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

Democrats and the rest of the world.

“If the world hates you, know that it has hated me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. Remember the word that I said to you, ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted me, they will persecute you; if they kept my word, they will keep yours also. But all this they will do to you on my account, because they do not know him who sent me. If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not have sin; but now they have no excuse for their sin. He who hates me hates my Father also. If I had not done among them the works which no one else did, they would not have sin; but now they have seen and hated both me and my Father. It is to fulfil the word that is written in their law, ‘They hated me without a cause.’ But when the Counselor comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, he will bear witness to me; and you also are witnesses, because you have been with me from the beginning.” - Jn 15:18-27

 

[Antigone]

Of course they're worried, they'd need to start paying their fair share for their own defence, at least pay the 2% NATO requirement!

Getting out of the EU/NATO/anything vaguely resemling some sort of international cooperation is the priority of any populist party over here as well, so I wouldn't be quite so sure of that.

 

[Antigone]

“If the world hates you, know that it has hated me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. Remember the word that I said to you, ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted me, they will persecute you; if they kept my word, they will keep yours also. But all this they will do to you on my account, because they do not know him who sent me. If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not have sin; but now they have no excuse for their sin. He who hates me hates my Father also. If I had not done among them the works which no one else did, they would not have sin; but now they have seen and hated both me and my Father. It is to fulfil the word that is written in their law, ‘They hated me without a cause.’ But when the Counselor comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, he will bear witness to me; and you also are witnesses, because you have been with me from the beginning.” - Jn 15:18-27

Thank you for quoting scripture.

Even if it refers to not taking part in worldly matters that contravene the Christian lifestyle and has absolutely no bearing on politics either right or left wing.

 

[Sultan Of Swing]

Getting out of the EU/NATO/anything vaguely resemling some sort of international cooperation is the priority of any populist party over here as well, so I wouldn't be quite so sure of that.

Huh? I don't see populist parties winning elections in Europe anytime soon (potentially Marine Le Pen in the French presidential one, potentially). Trump can win because he's actually the nominee of one of the two major parties.

Trump doesn't want to leave NATO, but he wants countries to pay their fair share, at least the 2% for defence spending which is a requirement to be a member in the first place. I'm saying leaders, like that German foreign minister, are of course worried, because their respective governments are going to have to start paying more.

 

[Antigone]

But that's only one small example from five years ago. There have been a multitude more since then. If you haven't seen any, you either don't know the constitution or you aren't paying attention.

It's a matter of perspective, isn't it? Most Europeans find the American attitude of nearly slavish devotion to their constitution rather baffling. I mean, the UK doesn't even have a constitution.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

Thank you for quoting scripture.

Even if it refers to not taking part in worldly matters that contravene the Christian lifestyle and has absolutely no bearing on politics either right or left wing.

Was your point that some foreign countries such as Saudi Arabia don't like Trump?

 

[LivingWordUnity]

Yes.

The examples have become the standard operating procedure.

But the point where it became clear to me was Obama's attack on Libya. He didn't care whether he had the authority to declare war, Congress didn't want to take responsibility and in fact only acted to avoid using their authority, and generally the opinion of those in government was "if he makes the orders and people follow him, then its legal." There were a few people who actually tried to pay attention to the constitution in all of this (like Rand Paul and Dennis Kucinich), but they were well in the minority and they accomplished nothing.

But that's only one small example from five years ago. There have been a multitude more since then. If you haven't seen any, you either don't know the constitution or you aren't paying attention.

Antigone is European, so there's no reason why she would care about the American constitution.

 

[Antigone]

Huh? I don't see populist parties winning elections in Europe anytime soon (potentially Marine Le Pen in the French presidential one, potentially). Trump can win because he's actually the nominee of one of the two major parties.

That's because most European countries don't elect their president; they have proportional representation. A populist party that wins 30% of the popular vote may not be able to deliver the next president but it will definitely exercise a lot of power and other parties may not be able to form a government without them.

Trump doesn't want to leave NATO, but he wants countries to pay their fair share, at least the 2% for defence spending which is a requirement to be a member in the first place. I'm saying leaders, like that German foreign minister, are of course worried, because their respective governments are going to have to start paying more.

Problem is, when Trump talks about NATO funding he's not quite clear on what, exactly, constitutes funding and what constitutes a fair distribution. Is it based on GDP? On population size? Relative to expenditure per country on defense? Germany has a fair few substantial American military bases (Landstuhl, Rammstein, to name but a few), do they factor in? Is there a difference in NATO civil and military expenditure?

In any case, if we take a percentage of GDP as a starting point, there are, indeed, only four countries that reach the 2% mark, but Germany is one of those.

Obama, by the way, has made the same point. If Trump thinks he can pressure countries to spend more - which, let's face it, is one of his more reasonable demands - he'll slame face first into a wall of populist rhetoric not entirely unlike his own about foreigners trying to tell 'us' what to do on the one hand and the loss of certain diplomatic privileges on the other.

I'm not saying this would be a good idea, mind you. We need organisations like NATO, costly though they may be, but he's not exactly in a good bargaining position.