Peaks head back in

[jckstraw72]

Latin Captivity = baloney

 

[E.C.]

*opens a Shock Top, grabs mozzarella sticks and wonders if he could get college credit from reading Mac's posts *

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Gurney opens a Bud Light, borrows a few handfuls of Rob's popcorn, puts on 3-D glasses, and pulls blanket up just a bit in horror at the spectacle about to take place...

*grabs some popcorn & sits down by Gurney*

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

I got my Ph.d. from reading his last post alone!

*opens a Shock Top, grabs mozzarella sticks and wonders if he could get college credit from reading Mac's posts *

 

[ArmyMatt]

*opens a Shock Top, grabs mozzarella sticks and wonders if he could get college credit from reading Mac's posts *

maybe I should tell STOTS.......

I do miss reading your posts Mac, even the ones where I disagreed.

 

[Macarius]

Latin Captivity = baloney

Yeah, that's a fair summary. Thank you for clarifying my excessive wordiness!

I use the term for convenience, but I really dislike it. To me, those centuries are every bit as Orthodox as the preceding ones, and our task is to discern the Spirit in them - not to brush them aside as somehow less than the "golden age" of early Byzantium (or whatever age we might pick).

 

[Macarius]

maybe I should tell STOTS.......

I do miss reading your posts Mac, even the ones where I disagreed.

How's STOTS going? You're entering your third year there, yeah?

 

[Macarius]

It's been an adjustment. Long and hard first year, but was told that's normal as it takes the first year for seminarians and their families to settle in and acclimate. We're doing well.

Glad to hear you're doing well and making the adjustment. Seminary is very, very hard for a family. We found the second year just as tough as the first, but for different reasons. For one, the excitement and new-ness wasn't there any more, and that's what sustained us through the first semester of the first year. On the other hand, we didn't have to move across the country... so that helped.

I think my second year at SVOTS was skewed a bit by the hurricane, which really disturbed the whole semester.

How's your family?

Good! Well, all things considered. Been a busy, busy few months, but we're starting to settle down a bit.

What are your plans now that I've read you've finished up at St. Vlad's?

Further study. I think I need a few more degrees before I'm fully equipped to become a heretic.

 

[jckstraw72]

Yeah, that's a fair summary. Thank you for clarifying my excessive wordiness!

I use the term for convenience, but I really dislike it. To me, those centuries are every bit as Orthodox as the preceding ones, and our task is to discern the Spirit in them - not to brush them aside as somehow less than the "golden age" of early Byzantium (or whatever age we might pick).

Fr. Seraphim would be proud of you

 

[Macarius]

Fr. Seraphim would be proud of you

Perhaps in this one way only

He certainly did like him some synthetic theology. When I think of out-of-context proof-texting of the tradition to defend an over-dogmatization of the faith, Pomazansky's text (which Fr Rose translated and adored) is a primary exemplar of what I object to...

 

[Jesus4Madrid]

Perhaps in this one way only

He certainly did like him some synthetic theology. When I think of out-of-context proof-texting of the tradition to defend an over-dogmatization of the faith, Pomazansky's text (which Fr Rose translated and adored) is a primary exemplar of what I object to...

Hey Bro, welcome back. I miss your insights here.

What Orthodox doctrines have been over-dogmatised? What do you mean by "dogma". Isn't dogma that which is averred in an Ecumenical Council?

 

[Jesus4Madrid]

I should perhaps lay my cards on the table, however embryonic the idea may be (so I reserve the right to change my mind on this). I increasingly believe that True Orthodox is actually pluralistic Orthodoxy - I don't think Orthodoxy is contained in the proper articulation of doctrine alongside the performance of liturgy and ascesis (Creed, Worship, Spirituality).

Instead, I think Orthodoxy - and theology in general - is an interpretive activity communally engaged and constrained. It has more in common with a book club than with a scholar's classroom (though both are extremely poor analogies).

Dynamic, Pluralistic, Orthodoxy.

So, Orthodox seminary has turned you into a Protestant, I see. Or at least some kind of post modern creature.

 

[Dorothea]

Glad to hear you're doing well and making the adjustment. Seminary is very, very hard for a family. We found the second year just as tough as the first, but for different reasons. For one, the excitement and new-ness wasn't there any more, and that's what sustained us through the first semester of the first year. On the other hand, we didn't have to move across the country... so that helped.

I think my second year at SVOTS was skewed a bit by the hurricane, which really disturbed the whole semester.

Oh my! I can imagine that would be a bit disturbing! Yes, it's much harder on families than we ever thought, even though our SF had told us several times, and even our bishop to a certain extent and what to prepare for and all. It's something that just has to be experienced to really know what they were talking about. The newness for us wore off after the first few months. We had a hard time adjusting the heavy ethnic mentality around here in Boston and the EOC's. Ugh But, after 8-9 months, hubby, the boys, and I finally got over all of that for the most part and are feeling settled. Thanks for the heads up with regards to the second year. lol We shall see how it goes. God willing, well!

Good! Well, all things considered. Been a busy, busy few months, but we're starting to settle down a bit.

Ah, that's good.

Further study. I think I need a few more degrees before I'm fully equipped to become a heretic.

 

[ArmyMatt]

How's STOTS going? You're entering your third year there, yeah?

no, I will begin this coming Fall. I started the process a year ago when I was in Afghanistan

 

[rusmeister]

Gurney opens a Bud Light, borrows a few handfuls of Rob's popcorn, puts on 3-D glasses, and pulls blanket up just a bit in horror at the spectacle about to take place...

Thunder rumbles...
It's gonna be a biggie. Better get under cover...

 

[rusmeister]

Further study. I think I need a few more degrees before I'm fully equipped to become a heretic.

I wish that were funny.

 

[Macarius]

So, Orthodox seminary has turned you into a Protestant, I see. Or at least some kind of post modern creature.

This statement is so odd and insulting I'm not entirely sure where to begin - unless it is ironic / in jest, in which case haha lolz I guess?

I guess I'll start at the end. We're all creatures. But if you are intending to apply a sub-human status for me that's rather rude.

Post-modern? In what sense? You are also post-modern, in that you live (and are therefore respondent to) the age after modernity. Post-modern in that I reject some of the assumptions of modernity? Yes, I suppose, but not for entirely post-modern reasons - rather for pre-modern ones. Would it help you feel more comfortable if I couched my argument in rhetorical quotations from scripture and the fathers? I could do that. There's plenty of material, and most of what I've said comes from a very close, very intense actual reading of Christian authors from antiquity.

Protestant? Buh? That doesn't even make sense in the context of what I posted. To talk about the fact (and it is rather fact) that father X and father Y have differing theologies which are contextualized to their time isn't Protestant. It's just history. I struggle to imagine what of anything I said sounded Protestant. You may be hearing ghosts or implications I didn't intend.

As for seminary, I don't know that it of itself turned me into anything, apart from perhaps making me a bit more cynical about high church administrators. Note - not episcopal governance as a theological belief, but the individual persons themselves.

90% of what I did was read. What did I read? Patristics, the Scriptures, the text of the liturgy. BUT not the sanitized version that has already passed through the synthetic process of modernist Orthodox systematics - the raw stuff, in all its difficulty and complexity. And it is indeed very difficult, and very complex, when you slow down enough to really read it and hear what its saying (rather than assume that it is saying what you expect it to say based on what later generations will consider proper theology).

I'm probably further from Protestant now than I've ever been. Sola Scriptura in today's evangelical mode would just be the ultimate reductionist scheme (identify one golden age, one time of the Spirit's pure activity) and synthetic scheme (that all the canonized books speak in one harmonious voice) and modernist scheme (that it's all about interpretive and historical inerrancy, and about original / authorial meaning).

I reject that reductionism (the Spirit works in all times of the Church's history), synthetic tendency (the Spirit works in diverse ways, diverse voices), and modernity (we don't need inerrant interpretation nor is it about authorial intent - it is about the transformation of the material of our community into the form and image of Christ).

In that sense I'm far more comfortable with the "allegorical" mind of pre-modern thinkers than I am with the modern mind of historical-critical exegetes, though I find value in both in unlocking the potential implications of the text.

But perhaps you'd feel more comfortable if I prooftexted the New Testament, Irenaeus, Gregory the Theologian, Maximus the Confessor, or myriad others?

The view that I've come to is based on attempt to get a grasp on the entire tradition of Orthodoxy, including its awkward parts. In humility, I would rather submit myself to a tradition untamed - beyond my grasp - than de-facto cut off parts of that tradition in the interest of simplifying it for dogmatic clarity.

I would say, therefore, that I am MORE committed to the tradition now than before, and even MORE in awe of how little of it I truly grasp. The same goes for the scriptures.

If that is unOrthodox...

 

[Macarius]

no, I will begin this coming Fall. I started the process a year ago when I was in Afghanistan

My bad. I thought you were already there for some reason. Sorry!

 

[Macarius]

Hey Bro, welcome back. I miss your insights here.

What Orthodox doctrines have been over-dogmatised? What do you mean by "dogma". Isn't dogma that which is averred in an Ecumenical Council?

I would say so. But pick up a book titled "Orthodox Dogmatic Theology" (or something similar) and see how much more it says than what the Ecumenical Councils did...

Now, I'm not so reductionist as to say that Orthodoxy has expressed every teaching in the councils - the councils were occasional things, triggered by crises and specifically addressing those crises. But it IS very interesting what things were consistently likely to bring forth a conciliar decree of ecumenical weight.

 

[Jesus4Madrid]

This statement is so odd and insulting I'm not entirely sure where to begin - unless it is ironic / in jest, in which case haha

Actually, I was being facetious. Sorry.

Why so sensitive?

I thought the rest of your post was rather interesting. I still don't get entirely what you are saying.