LDS Pay the voluntary tithe to escape the fire?

[Hammster]

“And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭14:20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I cannot help but notice how little you use scripture in your rebuttals...

Context is important. Did he tithe from all that he had, or just from the spoils?

 

[ArmenianJohn]

Even in Rome during Christ's life the Jews paid a temple tax as well as a tax to the Roman government. Lk 20:23-26
and that's NT.

There's a difference between "the Jews" and The Church. For example, we have no temple as the Jews had - we are the temple.

 

[ArmenianJohn]

Income tax? Malachi 3 is clear that the tithe was so there would be meat in God's house.

God directly linked material blessing to the tithe under the Old Covenant. Blessing being poured out.

“But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭8:6

If there is no blessing linked to the tithe in the New Covenant, is it truly a "better" Covenant?

Of course it's a better Covenant because of Grace. The only way to think it's not a better Covenant is if you think that material blessings that are tied to a commandment are better than Christ's atonement for our sins. I'm stunned someone would ask, even rhetorically, based on the facts of each Covenant.

 

[ArmenianJohn]

are you done?
i didn't post to provide you with a bully pulpit.
if that's what you want (and it seems to be)
then you might as well move on down the line because you will learn absolutely nothing from tithing. your ears are plugged.

Looks like you got angry simply because I asked a few questions for clarification of what you were saying. Sorry you are having that anger but I don't believe I said or did anything wrong.

 

[pdudgeon]

There's a difference between "the Jews" and The Church. For example, we have no temple as the Jews had - we are the temple.

but i assume that you do indeed worship God in a building, right?
and because that building is designated as a church or a basillica does it mean that God Himself is not there?

Correct me if i am wrong, but in all Catholic churches and basillicas we have a presence lamp that remains lit to remind us of God's presence with us.
Do you not have the same?

 

[pdudgeon]

Of course it's a better Covenant because of Grace. The only way to think it's not a better Covenant is if you think that material blessings that are tied to a commandment are better than Christ's atonement for our sins. I'm stunned someone would ask, even rhetorically, based on the facts of each Covenant.

but grace is not the only benefit of the New covenant.
so call me stunned that you would not mention the other benefits as well.

 

[ArmenianJohn]

but i assume that you do indeed worship God in a building, right?
and because that building is designated as a church or a basillica does it mean that God Himself is not there?

Correct me if i am wrong, but in all Catholic churches and basillicas we have a presence lamp that remains lit to remind us of God's presence with us.
Do you not have the same?

God is everywhere. Our worship happens in buildings and outside of buildings. I'm not Catholic, we don't have a presence lantern.

Bottom line is that "the Jews", particularly pre-New Covenant, were under a different arrangement completely than the Church that we are members of. This is the Church Age under the New Covenant so using Old Covenant rationale to revive Old Covenant commandments and then apply them to The Church is incorrect.

 

[pdudgeon]

Looks like you got angry simply because I asked a few questions for clarification of what you were saying. Sorry you are having that anger but I don't believe I said or did anything wrong.

appology accepted, let's move on.

 

[ArmenianJohn]

but grace is not the only benefit of the New covenant.
so call me stunned that you would not mention the other benefits as well.

I never said it's "the only benefit", however it IS the basis for all the benefits under the New Covenant. Why is this stunning you?

 

[pdudgeon]

God is everywhere. Our worship happens in buildings and outside of buildings. I'm not Catholic, we don't have a presence lantern.

Bottom line is that "the Jews", particularly pre-New Covenant, were under a different arrangement completely than the Church that we are members of. This is the Church Age under the New Covenant so using Old Covenant rationale to revive Old Covenant commandments and then apply them to The Church is incorrect.

thanks for your explaination.
so in practice you're actually coser to the Protestants than you are to the Catholic Church?

 

[ArmenianJohn]

thanks for your explaination.
so in practice you're actually coser to the Protestants than you are to the Catholic Church?

Maybe. I don't know enough about either Protestants or Roman Catholicism to say which we're closer to. If I had to make a judgment, I'd say we look and act more like Roman Catholics but believe more like Protestants.

 

[pdudgeon]

I never said it's "the only benefit", however it IS the basis for all the benefits under the New Covenant. Why is this stunning you?

it stuns me because previously i had never ever in a million years
thought to equate the Oriental Orthodox with the beliefs and practices of the Protestant churches. and frankly i'm also not seeing how practices don't follow in the footsteps of beliefs, which must preceed them.

but that's another kettle of fish.
just know that I honestly never ever thought such a thing possible for the Oriental Orthodox.

 

[ArmenianJohn]

it stuns me because previously i had never ever in a million years
thought to equate the Oriental Orthodox with the beliefs and practices of the Protestant churches.

Well that's because we shouldn't be equated with the beliefs and practices of the Protestant Churches. That's why we have our own designation.

 

[OncomingStorm]

Of course it's a better Covenant because of Grace. The only way to think it's not a better Covenant is if you think that material blessings that are tied to a commandment are better than Christ's atonement for our sins.

At what point did I say it was "better than Christ's atonement?" Scripture doesn't back you up, so you resort to putting words in my mouth?

Malachi 3 tells us plainly that God linked the blessing of heaven to the tithe. Or do you think that I came up with it?

 

[ArmenianJohn]

At what point did I say it was "better than Christ's atonement?" Scripture doesn't back you up, so you resort to putting words in my mouth?

You didn't say it but you asked it - you asked, "If there is no blessing linked to the tithe in the New Covenant, is it truly a "better" Covenant?"

Why would you ask or even think it's a possibility that the New Covenant might not be a "better" Covenant? That's why I said I was stunned that one would even ask, because I don't think it's even a consideration.

Malachi 3 tells us plainly that God linked the blessing of heaven to the tithe. Or do you think that I came up with it?

I understand and acknowledged that Malachi 3 says that. That's why I went on to say that that was part of the Old Covenant and pointed out that we are under the New Covenant now. It is not a commandment to us to tithe under the New Covenant. Under the New Covenant we are taught to give cheerfully - no mention of amounts and rules, just to give and to do so cheerfully. It is not tithing, it is giving. Big difference.

I understand that you don't necessarily agree with me and that's fine, but why are you fighting with me and accusing me of putting words in your mouth and being disingenuous? I don't mind discussing with you and I'm not mad just because I disagree, nor do I think you are trying to put words in my mouth even if you misunderstand me; I'm not sure why you're taking that attitude, though. It's OK if we disagree.

I have a feeling that you, being pentecostal, believe in a form of word-faith or name-it-and-claim-it or some sort of material "blessings" rule as many Pentecostal preachers often teach and sell. The problem with that is that it's not Biblical.

 

[Jane_Doe]

Should we avoid pork, worship on Saturday, keep the Jewish feasts?

The commands of avoiding pork was specifically revoked in scripture. Not by men randomly deciding which parts of scripture they choose to discard.

 

[Hammster]

At what point did I say it was "better than Christ's atonement?" Scripture doesn't back you up, so you resort to putting words in my mouth?

Malachi 3 tells us plainly that God linked the blessing of heaven to the tithe. Or do you think that I came up with it?

Right. To the nation of Israel.

 

[Ironhold]

We are talking scripture, not logic.

That statement can be interpreted in so many different ways...

 

[Hammster]

That statement can be interpreted in so many different ways...

But only one would be correct.

 

[Rescued One]

I'm surprised nobody has brought up Malachi 3:10-11.

"10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.

11 And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes, and he shall not destroy the fruits of your ground; neither shall your vine cast her fruit before the time in the field, saith the Lord of hosts."

Has God changed since Malachi was written?

Do you keep all 613 commandments?