Paul completes what is lacking?

[visionary]

Paul says he completes what is lacking in the suffering of Yeshua in a discussion about his sufferings while preaching the gospel. Evidently Paul knew of no impediment to belief that his sufferings played a redemptive role in the lives of those who received the gospel because of his preaching work which precipitated them. Believers may have referred to similar preaching activities that led to their own suffering and from which some came to faith in Yeshua. And it is part of a believer's faith to offer ourselves as Yeshua offered himself for the benefit of the brethren and as living sacrifices to God.

Colossians 1:24-29 KJV [24] Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church: [25] Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; [26] Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: [27] To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: [28] Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: [29] Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

The above statement, I would have never even have ventured to consider. There is no way that any sacrificing on our part has anything to do with the redemption process which Yeshua performed. I think this is where self inflicted wounds for religion come from.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I don't think 'religion'/practices came from God nor from Scripture.
Did Jesus Himself say we in Him will be treated bad by the world; beaten, tortured, humiliated, imprisoned, and executed, like He was ?
One example of many:
Young's Literal Translation
Then said Jesus to his disciples, 'If any one doth will to come after me, let him disown himself, and take up his cross, and follow me,

 

[visionary]

At first glance, this difficult passage seems to imply that Yeshua’s atonement is somehow deficient, and believers make up for what is missing through their own suffering. But Paul is not teaching what would be contradictory to his teachings elsewhere. He has just emphasized the sufficiency of Yeshua as God in the Flesh who makes peace between the Father and His people through the “blood of his cross” (vv. 15–23). Paul will go on in Colossians 2 to describe the victory over sin, Satan, and death Yeshua won at Calvary, refuting any suggestion that the cross is lacking. Moreover, the Greek term thlipsis, translated sufferings in 1:23, is never used for the redemptive sufferings of Yeshua in the New Testament.

 

[Lulav]

I see where you might read that he is a part of the redemption, there are other cases too that are troublesome, of him saying that he is preparing a bride for Yeshua. Other than this you referenced:

[28] Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

My focus when reading those passages was on this:

Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; [26] Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

What does he believe he is fulfilling? Saying 'Word of G-d' means the Tanakh, so my question would be where is it written? Have you ever come across something that would fit?

 

[visionary]

IT was my fault for reading some catholic postings and going... "WHAT!!!" I was hoping you all could help me out here to make the passage more clear and correct in interpretation.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

IT was my fault for reading some catholic postings and going... "WHAT!!!" I was hoping you all could help me out here to make the passage more clear and correct in interpretation.

It did seem very curious before to me, that in the op you brought up self-inflicted wounds (I never* saw anyone get those ideas from Scripture nor from Yhwh's Spirit nor taught by Yeshua or any faithful teacher of the Gospel). This your post explains it now.

*except.... I recently read of apparently faithful strong believers in one other remote area,
who made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the Gospel. That wasn't done as if the pain would help or anything like that though, albeit it obviously hurt for a while, and it wasn't something done more than once.

 

[visionary]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flagellation#Flagellation_as_a_religious_practice

 

[visionary]

http://opusdei.us/en-us/article/opus-dei-and-corporal-mortification/

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Are those things ever taught and practiced by Messianic Jews ?

 

[visionary]

Are those things ever taught and practiced by Messianic Jews ?

This has nothing to do with Jews of Judaism or Messianic Jews... but a catholic jew who brought it up in a post.

 

[gadar perets]

Colossians 1:24-29 KJV [24] Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church: [25] Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; [26] Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: [27] To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: [28] Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: [29] Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

Here is how I understand this:

"Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you," - Paul was preaching the Gospel for the sake of others. As a result, he was suffering in his own flesh through tribulations and persecutions. Yet, he was rejoicing in those sufferings as should we all (Matthew 5:11-12; James 1:2).

"and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:" -
He wasn't filling up Messiah's afflictions, but his own. The more he was afflicted for the Gospel's sake, the more he was filling up the lack in his own afflictions. However, Paul's (and our) afflictions are Messiah's afflictions as well. When we suffer, Yeshua suffers because we are one Body. He is the head and we are the body. When any part of the Body suffers, we all suffer. If we give a drink to a believer, it is as though we gave a drink to Yeshua. If we a persecuted, it is as though Yeshua is persecuted as well. So as Paul suffered, so did Yeshua. The afflictions of Messiah were filling up in Paul's flesh.

 

[visionary]

Here is how I understand this:

"Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you," - Paul was preaching the Gospel for the sake of others. As a result, he was suffering in his own flesh through tribulations and persecutions. Yet, he was rejoicing in those sufferings as should we all (Matthew 5:11-12; James 1:2).

"and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:" -
He wasn't filling up Messiah's afflictions, but his own. The more he was afflicted for the Gospel's sake, the more he was filling up the lack in his own afflictions. However, Paul's (and our) afflictions are Messiah's afflictions as well. When we suffer, Yeshua suffers because we are one Body. He is the head and we are the body. When any part of the Body suffers, we all suffer. If we give a drink to a believer, it is as though we gave a drink to Yeshua. If we a persecuted, it is as though Yeshua is persecuted as well. So as Paul suffered, so did Yeshua. The afflictions of Messiah were filling up in Paul's flesh.

Would you agree with the RCC position on mortification, flagellation, etc then using i Cor 1:24-28

 

[gadar perets]

Would you agree with the RCC position on mortification, flagellation, etc then using i Cor 1:24-28

I assume you meant Colossians 1:24-28. Absolutely not. Neither did Paul. He was not referring to self inflicted suffering, but suffering at the hands of others (2 Corinthians 11:23-25).