Pastors that abuse their authority.

[FLANDIDLYANDERS]

I guess this is a couple of reasons I don't go to church. THough i have been starting to wonder whether or not i should

NEVER EVER GO TO CHURCH. Be part of church, do not GO.

 

[New_Wineskin]

NEVER EVER GO TO CHURCH. Be part of church, do not GO.

LOL!! Sounds like Yoda .

No go ... Be or don't Be ... there is no "go" .

 

[strikerchris0411]

NEVER EVER GO TO CHURCH. Be part of church, do not GO.

lol . well I guess Christianforums.com is my church. a fellowship of people. and there is definentely two or more people on this site at one time. I hope

 

[FLANDIDLYANDERS]

CF can be an aspect of Church, but it doesnt offer every aspect of community that we were designed to need. But I apreciate that some people simply cant find any one else near them that would share their worldview and lifestyle, so this becomes their temporary church. Point taken.

And, yes, Yoda is, of course, the expert in all things related to Church.

 

[rosemerry]

I did the cultwatch thing for the church I attended. It said it was a cult before I even finished the questionairre. I left the church because 1. I broke up with my boyfriend. 2. There were things I did not agree with about the church. ie the pastor believed the sun revolved around the earth instead of the other way around.

Our pastor never abused money. You could ask for a statement every time and he would get one for you. Where you want the money to go that's where it went. At times he would ask if we could give money to say the building fund because they were still paying off the mortgage. But in two years I attended he asked 3 times and only because we weren't going to cover it unless we knew it needed to be covered so we gave gladly.

Our missionaries were well funded. We were only a congretation of less than 20 but they are able to give $1500 easily for our missionaries. Why because we said that's where I money went.

In short I think that site is bunk. I did attend a church at one time where the pastor quit because he wasn't making enough money from it. It split the church up and wasn't the same afterward. But I don't know anything to the power that y'all talk about here.

just my change,
Lyra

 

[rocklife]

I've seen one church that has the members sign contracts about submitting to the church "authority". I don't know what that is all about, but since they don't even bother enforcing it, I don't know why they have them sign contracts, seems like another abuse of authority... I don't believe they are following Jesus, just money, by their sermons and fruits of selfishness, coldness, and etc.

and about abuse of power, I won't even get into the whole pedophilic clergy, unfortunately evil churchgoers aren't jsut limited to those in positions of authority either... I trust God will sort these wheat and tares out, in His righteous and loving ways. Jesus tells us in the New Testament many times to be careful of the leaders, they often don't live what they talk about

 

[Rick Otto]

A lot of churches are corporations.

 

[habeas]

A lot of churches are corporations.

90 percent of traditional churches in the U.S. are incorporated.

 

[Rick Otto]

They are by definition tax free.
They turn a right into Ceasar's privilige and recieve limited liability in return, meaning if any of the officers of the cororation/church get sued, their personal assets are protected, only church assets can be awarded for damages. What they give for this protection, along with their constitutional right to tax-free status, is the promise not to speak out against "Public" (govt.) Policy.

Wierd.
Wrong.

 

[TheAJKMan]

A lot of churches are corporations.

And I'm saddened by that, so many of them may as well change their names to something more in line with the secular environment in the business world for all the godliness that is in them.


theajkman

 

[TheAJKMan]

Another thought, I understand that for legal/tax reasons that many churches register themselves and take on business like titles. Including things like the Inc/Pty Ltd bits. I have no problem with that aspect of things, but where the prevailing attitude/teachings of the church is like that of the world. That is where my problems lie. *sigh* Time to stop babbling like ann idiot now.


theajkman

 

[FLANDIDLYANDERS]

No it is sensible. Add a title like corp. or Ltd to a church and they can't help but act like one.

Dodgy ground.

 

[discernomatic]

Sometimes we might have to register a church to be accepted at all.

At least here in Italy, unregistered churches or those that meet exclusively in houses are seen as cults. That is not the fault of the state. Here, the state is not responsible for church registration. If anyone wants to found a church that is not affiliated with a group already in existence and approved here, then he must go to the Vatican.

I know of a church now in existence that took years to set up. Some Americans wanted to have a non-denominational church where American expats here could go to. Of course other English-speakers are also welcome. The couple that was responsible for this exchanged letters with the Vatican for three years. When they were finally invited to go to Rome, they were interviewed for a grueling five hours. They had to convince those responsible that they had valid reasons for founding a new church. They finally did get permission to get a pastor. Now they are affiliated with the International Baptist Convention and have received a pastor. Though he is Baptist, he tries to be as non-denominational as possible and be there for all that come to the church he services.

I have been thinking of getting something like a house church going here, but have been warned that if such meetings take place, the group could very easily be labeled a cult - unless we officially affiliate with someone. True freedom isn't possible under such circumstances. Sigh.

 

[brother daniel]

Sometimes we might have to register a church to be accepted at all.

At least here in Italy, unregistered churches or those that meet exclusively in houses are seen as cults. That is not the fault of the state. Here, the state is not responsible for church registration. If anyone wants to found a church that is not affiliated with a group already in existence and approved here, then he must go to the Vatican.

I know of a church now in existence that took years to set up. Some Americans wanted to have a non-denominational church where American expats here could go to. Of course other English-speakers are also welcome. The couple that was responsible for this exchanged letters with the Vatican for three years. When they were finally invited to go to Rome, they were interviewed for a grueling five hours. They had to convince those responsible that they had valid reasons for founding a new church. They finally did get permission to get a pastor. Now they are affiliated with the International Baptist Convention and have received a pastor. Though he is Baptist, he tries to be as non-denominational as possible and be there for all that come to the church he services.

I have been thinking of getting something like a house church going here, but have been warned that if such meetings take place, the group could very easily be labeled a cult - unless we officially affiliate with someone. True freedom isn't possible under such circumstances. Sigh.

True freedom comes if you are not afraid to die or be labeled as a cult. You dont need anything from the vatican or anyone else. Jesus and his word is your power. use it.

With love in Christ
brother daniel

 

[FLANDIDLYANDERS]

he is right. we still getdodgy looks - mostly from churches even in the uk.

 

[faithpilgrim]

I have been thinking of getting something like a house church going here, but have been warned that if such meetings take place, the group could very easily be labeled a cult - unless we officially affiliate with someone. True freedom isn't possible under such circumstances. Sigh.

Hum and must you call it a church? Can a group of friends get together now and then and just happen to discuss the bible? Oh, it reminds me of the early Christians who met in the catacombs or those who are in the underground church in countries like China.

While we don't have laws requiring us to register yet, there have been incidents reported of home churches violating zoning laws even here it the US while their neighbors could have a drinkng party with no problems. Go figure. God's people always receive bad treatment and usually from the very religious.

 

[Johnnz]

Don't call it church. After all in the NT the word church means those who come together. And, your situation is pretty much like NT days, where any new group had to be careful that they were not seen as subversive. Groups, apart from Jewish religious ones, were only allowed to meet monthly. Early on Christian swere seen as a Jewish sect, and consequently they could meet weekly.

John
NZ

 

[Big_Dave]

Pastors that abuse their authority.

That's the reason that about 90 believers left our church more than a year ago, some of them members for more than 12 years.

Following are the main points of abuse:

1 - Worship control
We were commanded by the pastor to worship the way he likes (shouting, screaming, dancing) and because most of the time we failed to do so
we were condemned as not praising God as loudly as He deserves.

2 - Submission to pastor
Submission in everything he says and anyone questioning his actions was considered a rebel and under a curse (1Sa 15:23) Many times the
pastor said if you love me (the pastor) obey my commandments. For more than 6 months he was doing Bible studies on submission to the pastor.

3 - Church authority structure
The old pyramid structure but worse than that no elders! The pastor in all of his decisions he hears from God, no need to consult others.

4 - Abuse of authority
How about expelling some workers from ministry suddenly without telling them why or
assigning a wife in a ministry without telling anything to her husband

5 - Pastor is servant
He said the workers are in the church to serve the pastor. He emphasized that everything must be ready when he comes to preach, he only
takes the microphone. Once he rebuked the workers for not moving a fallen banner, he went and moved it to our shame. You could only get
advice from him if you make an appointment at specific hours of the day. Once we had a case with demon possession but we couldn't call the
pastor cause it was outside his specific hours so we brought someone else from a different church.

6 - Finances
No accountability was given of where the money goes or what are their wages. On one occasion a large piece of land was sold and until today
we do not know what happened to the money.

7 - Money preaching
No, they never begged us to give but EVERY Sunday morning before the main sermon a mini sermon was preached by different workers on giving to
God.

8 - Vision of pastor
No one else had the freedom to have a different vision. He often said "there can be no 2 visions in this church". All workers and members main ministry was to fulfill the pastor's vision.

9 - Church show biz
Oh how many were sacrificed on the altar of church show! Once the show started you had to be there on time better yet half hour earlier
looking perfect with the right suit behaving right to the end of the show. One mistake and you got heavily rebuked. The show was more
important than the hearts of believers. Like a young musician not wearing the right tie he was heavily rebuked, he got really hurt.

10 - Traditions of man
Point 9 had plenty of rules and regulations that disobeying them you got whipped but also signing to become a member/tither for life was a
rule to new members. Lists were taken for members not attending services and also lists of who doesn't tithe who tithes and how much he
gives. You see we were accountable to him about our tithes/offerings but he was not accountable to us as to what he did with our tithes/offerings.

11 - Sensitivity to unbelievers
You try to bring your friend to church to get saved. If he doesn't go away at the hysterical worship and screaming from the pastor and some
others he will when money preaching starts. Usually they say "did you bring me here to get my money to them ?"

12 - Darkness underestimated
Satan has no power or authority today! claiming Col 2:15 "And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly,
triumphing over them in it." The original greek says 'striped naked' for 'spoiled' so the principalities and powers were striped naked from
their power and position (principality) and now they are naked that is they have no power or position (principality).

13 - Church name above Jesus name
Someone said to him "you must put Jesus is Lord above the name of the church outside the building". No he said. And how about the many
T-shirts printed with the name of the church in front and Jesus name behind.

14 - Curses
When we left three of us our names were given from the pulpit with warnings no one to speak to us along with the following scripture
Pro 24:21 My son, fear thou the LORD and the king: and meddle not with them that are given to change:For their calamity shall rise
suddenly; and who knoweth the ruin of them both? He said he is not the one cursing us but the Bible.




Maybe some of you have experienced abuse from leaders in other points than the above.

I believe that all of the above points are unscriptural therefore we could not continue in this kind of a church that might turn to a cult. He would not listen to anybody even leaders from other churches. No change to this day. What i'm concerned with is the believers that go there and they suffer but they don't go away because of fear.

I'm thinking of distributing facts about spiritual abuse among the churches
(without mentioning names) so that believers will wake up shake off the fear and find Christ centered churches.

Thanks in advance for hearing my story,
FF.

There are some similaritys in your story to mine. Mine are not nearly as bad. But I have to tell you it is churches like this that help me make my decision to become Catholic. I am now in RCIA and loving every minute of it. This kind of thing cant happen in a Catholic Church.

 

[cubanito]

Sometimes we might have to register a church to be accepted at all.

At least here in Italy, unregistered churches or those that meet exclusively in houses are seen as cults. That is not the fault of the state. Here, the state is not responsible for church registration. If anyone wants to found a church that is not affiliated with a group already in existence and approved here, then he must go to the Vatican.

Simple curiosity: if you do get labeled a cult, what happens then?Fines, jail, the stock, no more pizza nights?

JR

 

[discernomatic]

There are some similaritys in your story to mine. Mine are not nearly as bad. But I have to tell you it is churches like this that help me make my decision to become Catholic. I am now in RCIA and loving every minute of it. This kind of thing cant happen in a Catholic Church.

Don't think that manipulation and control can't happen there too. The Catholic church was very controlling in the past. Today, Opus Dei is tolerated, and so is the Neocatechumene. A lot of what they have done to people has been swept under the rug, just as sexual abuse has.