Pastors that abuse their authority.

[3FingeredMonkey]

Deffinately agree with Qidron.Sadly, I've seen many "storefront" churches spring up lately, where there is little acountablity.It can happen in just about any church. My concern is where the pastor strays from teaching and guiding to being" all in all".

I waas recently vising with someone whose church was studying Watchman Nee's book Spiritual Authority.The pastor was taking it to the point that disagreeing with his teachings and/or leaving the church was rebellousness,thus was witchcraft.So, in essence if you left the church you were in rebellion.

It really hit home when my wife & I took another couple from that congrgation to Lakewood to hear Joel Osteen speak.There ONLY reaction was that he didn't teach on submitting to authority so nothing he siad was of value. I find that scary.

Yes, when we are members of a fellowship, we are under some authority,but that doesn't mean checking your brains at the door.The final authority, of course is Jesus Christ & His word.

 

[JEBofChristTheLord]

3FM, you have definitely hit the nails on the head, of all the major pastoral-abuses which I too have witnessed personally. And I too have seen the evil consequences within the souls of those that trust abusive pastors. I am very glad to see the testimony public!!!!!!

 

[2+2=5]

This thread is about pastoral abuse and has more to do with the title and expectations put upon, and taken up by, pastors today than it hasd to do with any particular pastor from one's past.

Forgive me; I should have made it clearer that I intended that to be a side point.
Many pastors are wolves and many pastors are misguided sheep. We need to alert others if we think a pastor is a wolf, but also be careful to not dwell on it and become bitter.
Just a trap I have observed many well meaning people fall into.

 

[3FingeredMonkey]

I understand what yor saying,5.Too many times there are those who ,disgruntled because they are faced with thier sin, choose instead to attack church leadership.

My biggest concern is for the new & niave.I myself have been on both sides.I've just seen many though leave they church wounded from others taking advantage of. My personal opinion is that it is the resposibility of all of us believers to stand firm by the truth & check everything out scripturally.

Doing so could help avoid situations of abuse whether from leadership or members trying to cause division.

 

[strikerchris0411]

Yes, when we are members of a fellowship, we are under some authority,but that doesn't mean checking your brains at the door.The final authority, of course is Jesus Christ & His word.

I liked your whole post, but in what way of authority are you talking about

 

[tommiegrant]

Pastoral abuse is unexcuseable pastors are servents but also leaders. This is shown in scripture as will bring out. Look first to 1st Peter 5
[size=+1] (NKJV) 1 Peter 5:1 The elders who are among you I exhort, I who am a fellow elder and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that will be revealed: 2 Shepherd the flock of God which is among you, serving as overseers, not by compulsion but willingly, not for dishonest gain but eagerly; 3 nor as being lords over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock; 4 and when the Chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the crown of glory that does not fade away. 5 Likewise you younger people, submit yourselves to [your] elders. Yes, all of [you] be submissive to one another, and be clothed with humility, for "God resists the proud, But gives grace to the humble." 6 Therefore humble yourselves under the mighty hand of God, that He may exalt you in due time, 7 casting all your care upon Him, for He cares for you. 8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour. 9 Resist him, steadfast in the faith, knowing that the same sufferings are experienced by your brotherhood in the world. 10 But may the God of all grace, who called us to His eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after you have suffered a while, perfect, establish, strengthen, and settle [you.] 11 To Him [be] the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen. 12 By Silvanus, our faithful brother as I consider him, I have written to you briefly, exhorting and testifying that this is the true grace of God in which you stand. 13 She who is in Babylon, elect together with [you,] greets you; and [so does] Mark my son. 14 Greet one another with a kiss of love. Peace to you all who are in Christ Jesus. Amen.
Notice that Peter calls for the Pastor ( elder) to have right motive and behavior then to the congration he says to follow the pastor but for everyone pastor and congration alike to humbel themselves under God. When this requiement is meet there is a wonderful union that was born in the Mind of God.
Outside of this there is chaos, i have seen it go both ways an abusive pastor but I have also seen abusive congrations both are very heart breaking and extermely ungodly.
In Christ, Tom
[/size]

 

[3FingeredMonkey]

Sorry Strikerchris for not answering sooner, but I'm glad I didn't after reading Tom's post. He quoted the scripture I was looking for and made the point I was trying to make beautifully!

To Tom: !

I am glad you also mentioned congregations abusing pastors. Whether in a leadership position or a member of the congregation
,words and actions for self gain and not for the advancement of the truth only serve to harm the fellowship.We are to instruct,correct,minister to , etc. in LOVE! To GOD's glory not our own.

 

[tommiegrant]

3fingeredmonkey, It is great to be able to agree with a democrat on somethinglol.
Thank you for the kind comments however when we let scripture speak for itself we can take no credit for elogence.
You see I am afarid I would have a prejudice view as pastor myself ( though I do not have a church right now we are expecting to launch just after the firstof the year) however as a pastor I see myself as a servent who is held to a higher degree of accountiblity for that which Jesus has trusted me with. I really believe the main problem today is that we have to many preacher and not enough real pastors. And their is a huge difference.
In Christ, Tom

 

[Johnnz]

The issue of pastoral abuse will remain as long as churches retain the pyramid structure with a professional (or self appointed) person at the top. When that person becomes the final authority, when there is one person's teaching dominating others, when there is a fulltime professional then the rest of us, we cannot avoid issues of the misuse of authority. That is built into the system. Even in the case of a godly minister or pastor his position automatically places him/her above others, and that is not a NT pattern.

Here is another model. The pastoral gift is exercised along with the many others Christ gives to his church. No one person dominates the congregation. All leaders are employed during the week and are self supporting. The current functions performed by the 'professional' are now undertaken by suitably gifted people. The Body of Christ is now beginning to function as a unit.

That's the model we have adopted. It's great.

John
NZ

 

[Qidron]

The issue of pastoral abuse will remain as long as churches retain the pyramid structure with a professional (or self appointed) person at the top. When that person becomes the final authority, when there is one person's teaching dominating others, when there is a fulltime professional then the rest of us, we cannot avoid issues of the misuse of authority. That is built into the system. Even in the case of a godly minister or pastor his position automatically places him/her above others, and that is not a NT pattern.

Here is another model. The pastoral gift is exercised along with the many others Christ gives to his church. No one person dominates the congregation. All leaders are employed during the week and are self supporting. The current functions performed by the 'professional' are now undertaken by suitably gifted people. The Body of Christ is now beginning to function as a unit.

That's the model we have adopted. It's great.

John
NZ

Thank you for moving through to the side of this problem.

I remember one of my children had a vision where he went into a house that was larger on the inside than it looked on the outside. I have this recorded somewhere and i will have to find the middle of this vision..but in the end I remember he found the other side of the house and broke through a wall...to get out. What you said reminded me of that.

And what I mean is....there is a way to proceed. We have been so long in the traditions of men that we don't really know...even when we read the Word...how we are really supposed to proceed. Our minds got dull. Some of us have broken out and now we need to know....What should a pastor, according to the Word, be doing? How does that gift look in action..how is it different from what we have known?

I was just looking at Song of Songs 1:7....and she is asking "where do you feed your flock and where do they lie down to rest...?" I am asking too.

 

[New_Wineskin]

The issue of pastoral abuse will remain as long as churches retain the pyramid structure with a professional (or self appointed) person at the top. When that person becomes the final authority, when there is one person's teaching dominating others, when there is a fulltime professional then the rest of us, we cannot avoid issues of the misuse of authority. That is built into the system. Even in the case of a godly minister or pastor his position automatically places him/her above others, and that is not a NT pattern.

Here is another model. The pastoral gift is exercised along with the many others Christ gives to his church. No one person dominates the congregation. All leaders are employed during the week and are self supporting. The current functions performed by the 'professional' are now undertaken by suitably gifted people. The Body of Christ is now beginning to function as a unit.

That's the model we have adopted. It's great.

John
NZ

Great post . I would only add that one could allow the giftings to flow without needing a name . That would include any pastoral gifts . Why is there a need to identify a pastor ? Why is there a need to point to someone and tell them that they are operating in a pastoral gift ? Why not allow things to smply flow as the Spirit leads ?

 

[Johnnz]

I totally agree, although a name (but definately not a title) can give some focus and direction to people. For example, knowing that your gifting is teaching can stop you meddling in other areas!

John
NZ

 

[JulySheMustFly]

I think every pastor should be required to read And the Shofar Blew.
It covers a pastor who starts on the right path following Christ and somewhere along the way loses that path. It also shows the path to a more glorifying church. It was actually a painful book to read as I could see these habits in many of the pastors from past churches I had attended. It also confirmed the choice of my current church.

 

[Johnnz]

And what I mean is....there is a way to proceed. We have been so long in the traditions of men that we don't really know...even when we read the Word...how we are really supposed to proceed. Our minds got dull. Some of us have broken out and now we need to know....What should a pastor, according to the Word, be doing? How does that gift look in action..how is it different from what we have known?

I was just looking at Song of Songs 1:7....and she is asking "where do you feed your flock and where do they lie down to rest...?" I am asking too.

I think the first thing we need to look at is the notion that there is to be one person with a professional function who is "the pastor".

For a biblical model for church leadership and congegational responsibility for each other look at Ezekiel 34, and recognise that Christ perfectly fulfilled the Good Shepherd role.

It seems all but impossible for the institutionalised church to make the necessary changes, which results in much anguish for many comitted Christians.

John
NZ

 

[jlerollin]

hello i would be interested to hear about your experiment.

I have recently come out of a church that has been abusive. they have turned my family and friends against me as well as the local authorities and i am being mentally d day and night by the local community though I have left years ago.

I think they prey on those who are gifted and a threat to their power base and monetary base. I do think it is possible for a leader to create healthy organisations but i do think the current set up is both unscriptural and practically inhibiting to the expansion and discipleship of a revival, they are kings in all but name.

I have been interested in ministry for some time but am looking for a that will work somewhat better than the current one though rick warrens purpose driven church and some house planting movement articles seem to exhibit the freedom nescessary for a growing and healthy congregation

 

[copticorthodoxy]

the priest in the traditional churches is diffrent from the pastor in the protestant churches

 

[strikerchris0411]

the priest in the traditional churches is diffrent from the pastor in the protestant churches

In what way?

 

[Qidron]

I'd like to know what you mean too. As a Catholic, we always looked at the priest as our advocate to God...and we were required to confess to him as well. So he had a very prominent possition in our lives. When I went to a protestant church I revered the pastors the same way...that got ppl into trouble who chose to confess to them...whoa! Don't want to do that! Anyway since then we have recognized that pastors are just men ...brothers in Christ like the rest of us....we began to wonder why did we still sense a superior air? My understanding is that we are all of the same body with Christ as the head...not a many headed body. So somehow the true relationship for pastors has to be made known to us. I still don't get it. But He will reveal it to me.

Blessings to you

 

[ctay]

I would find another church to go to.

 

[Johnnz]

hello i would be interested to hear about your experiment.

I have recently come out of a church that has been abusive. they have turned my family and friends against me as well as the local authorities and i am being mentally d day and night by the local community though I have left years ago.

I think they prey on those who are gifted and a threat to their power base and monetary base. I do think it is possible for a leader to create healthy organisations but i do think the current set up is both unscriptural and practically inhibiting to the expansion and discipleship of a revival, they are kings in all but name.

I have been interested in ministry for some time but am looking for a that will work somewhat better than the current one though rick warrens purpose driven church and some house planting movement articles seem to exhibit the freedom nescessary for a growing and healthy congregation

You need to work through hurts etc before you consider any ministry.

Most importantly I suggest you forget the word 'ministry'. Just look to be just another person amongst a group of others who seek to implement what Pual wrote: Eph 4:16 From him the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love, as each part does its work. NIV

When people forget institutional terms such a leader, ministry, authority, submission and just get on with being Christlike then something really healthy and organic can develop.

John
NZ