Paraphrase bibles (The Message, Living bible, etc...)

[LogosRhema]

I'm sorry, it just got to me is all.

Like I said... I try... doesn't mean I'm successful lol

I don't blame you, but got to weigh what battles we should be fighting, some are pointless...

 

[Floatingaxe]

First Nadiine, now you Floating Axe.

Stranger things have been known to happen than me agreeing with you.

Just documenting the moment for posteritys sake

 

[imperfectchristian]

There are more important things to worry about...like trying to find a man for pinetree's sister.

 

[Izdaari Eristikon]

I am fond of the The Message. It could never replace a regular translation (well, if that's all you had, you'd get by, but it wouldn't be the best option), but it's a good supplement to it for casual reading and for shedding some light on a passage that may not have been totally clear to you. It is of course Peterson's commentary as much as anything... but commentaries are not a bad thing.

For a normal translation, I favor the ESV, HCSB, TNIV and NLT. I also use the NIV, NKJV, NASB and NRSV a fair bit. I have a strong aversion to the KJV. If I want archaic English, I'll read Chaucer or Shakespeare. I'd use the KJV if it's all I had, but only then.

 

[LogosRhema]

I'm curious if persecution would hit this nation and for some reason those who are stuck on one version of the Bible, say KJV, and end up with the only Bible they ever could get their hands on was The Message because the persecution was so bad... Wonder how quickly their pride would break before they were hungry enough for God's Word in any form. lol

 

[Floatingaxe]

I'm curious if persecution would hit this nation and for some reason those who are stuck on one version of the Bible, say KJV, and end up with the only Bible they ever could get their hands on was The Message because the persecution was so bad... Wonder how quickly their pride would break before they were hungry enough for God's Word in any form. lol

And just as I said before, we have been a greatly blessed part of the world with so many versions of Scripture to choose from, where in other nations like China and Russia, there have been documented stories of people who have only had 1 page from a bible---and it wasn't any version we know---and they had to memorize it or be caught with it and die. So they memorized it and ate it.

Puts it into perspective, eh?

 

[Tenebrae]

And just as I said before, we have been a greatly blessed part of the world with so many versions of Scripture to choose from, where in other nations like China and Russia, there have been documented stories of people who have only had 1 page from a bible---and it wasn't any version we know---and they had to memorize it or be caught with it and die. So they memorized it and ate it.

Puts it into perspective, eh?

I recall long ago when i was young and still at school. I went to this youth group event. We were divided into teams and given clues to get to a secret location

As we arrived we were given a few pages from the bible, and a few minutes later the police burst in with Dogs and had us line up against the back wall and told us we were under arrest for congregating as a church.

Now it was only a simulation and not a real event, however being given a couple of pages of the bible really bought it home to me what it must be like being in a country without free access to the bible and at times only having a book or a few pages to read at any one time.

Well said

 

[Elijah2]

My dear brother, Twigy, this posting isn’t directed to you only.

I have stated all along that The Message is not a Bible translation, but only a personal interpretation of Eugene Peterson with his own agenda in mind, through the new emerging church paradigm.

Peterson claims that he consulted the ancient text, and is retelling the message of the Bible, verse by verse, in everyday, colloquial English, but only according to his own understanding of each verse of the Bible, and not HIS MESSAGE.

Now he does a rather good job of what is called “proof-texting” with his own agenda in mind, and the new emerging church’s agenda. Those who study His Living Inspired Word know that Eugene’s theological leanings get in the way of “TRUTH” and fails to reveal the real truth of His Living Inspired Word, because he deletes most important phrases that are the clutch pin of “Christian Living”, and his interpretation has no real meaning to such a life.

SIN and REPENTANCE is missing completely!

The Message doesn’t fit into any category of a basis of John 8:32, “TRUTH that you will know the truth that sets you free.”

The Message’s story is appealing to the new emerging church’s paradigm; new Christians; and those wayside, stony, and thorny Christians who prefer to remain half-hearted and lukewarm, filling their appetite space of their “comfort zone” with “milk” and not “meat”, and don’t want to be disturbed, or woken up from their ‘corruptible seed” fantasy world, to the “incorruptible seed” of TRUTH!

There are so many verses that are only mere interpretation, with no direct meaning to the Greek or Hebrew text, and greatly differ from any translation or commentary that confirms the Greek and Hebrew text.

Eugene presents a non-accurate, theologically biased, and a distorted, misrepresented, and watered-down understanding of the ancient texts, and the claims that he writes it in everyday English, and Eugene’s agenda is fulfilled by his paradigm. No wonder Amos 8:11 is becoming true today:

NKJV: “‘Behold, the days are coming’, says the Lord GOD, ‘That I will send a famine on the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD.’”

The Message: “‘Oh yes, Judgment Day is coming!” These are the words of my Master God. ‘I'll send a famine through the whole country. It won't be food or water that's lacking, but my Word. People will drift from one end of the country to the other, roam to the north, wander to the east. They'll go anywhere, listen to anyone, hoping to hear God's Word—but they won't hear it.’”

Did our Lord say that “Judgement Day is coming”? Another new age term: “master god”? When did our “LORD” all of a sudden become a “master god”? Where did our LORD say that we would drift from one end of the country to listen?

These very words show exactly what I have been saying how Eugene distorts, misrepresents, adds, deletes, and waters-down His Living Inspired Word.

Actually Amos 8:11 are being proved by Eugene Peterson’s book, The Message!

As I have said on a number of times, why did he delete any references to “Lord Jesus” and “Lord Jesus Christ”? Why did he omit most references to the word “Lord”? Why does he use the new age term for our Lord Jesus Christ with “Master Jesus”, which appears in no translations whatsoever?

There is an agenda behind The Message.

Answer those questions with a rational, factual study and breakdown of those reasons, and not criticise and challenge traditional and factual truth and facts with reality and certainty, and the values of His Word without being felt ridiculed, intimidated and rejected just to conform to the new paradigm that is being fed to the Body of Christ through such books that desecrate His Living Inspired Word?

Be blessed in Jesus' Name.

 

[LogosRhema]

My dear brother, Twigy, this posting isn’t directed to you only.

I have stated all along that The Message is not a Bible translation, but only a personal interpretation of Eugene Peterson with his own agenda in mind, through the new emerging church paradigm.

Peterson claims that he consulted the ancient text, and is retelling the message of the Bible, verse by verse, in everyday, colloquial English, but only according to his own understanding of each verse of the Bible, and not HIS MESSAGE.

Now he does a rather good job of what is called “proof-texting” with his own agenda in mind, and the new emerging church’s agenda. Those who study His Living Inspired Word know that Eugene’s theological leanings get in the way of “TRUTH” and fails to reveal the real truth of His Living Inspired Word, because he deletes most important phrases that are the clutch pin of “Christian Living”, and his interpretation has no real meaning to such a life.

SIN and REPENTANCE is missing completely!

The Message doesn’t fit into any category of a basis of John 8:32, “TRUTH that you will know the truth that sets you free.”

The Message’s story is appealing to the new emerging church’s paradigm; new Christians; and those wayside, stony, and thorny Christians who prefer to remain half-hearted and lukewarm, filling their appetite space of their “comfort zone” with “milk” and not “meat”, and don’t want to be disturbed, or woken up from their ‘corruptible seed” fantasy world, to the “incorruptible seed” of TRUTH!

There are so many verses that are only mere interpretation, with no direct meaning to the Greek or Hebrew text, and greatly differ from any translation or commentary that confirms the Greek and Hebrew text.

Eugene presents a non-accurate, theologically biased, and a distorted, misrepresented, and watered-down understanding of the ancient texts, and the claims that he writes it in everyday English, and Eugene’s agenda is fulfilled by his paradigm. No wonder Amos 8:11 is becoming true today:

NKJV: “‘Behold, the days are coming’, says the Lord GOD, ‘That I will send a famine on the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD.’”

The Message: “‘Oh yes, Judgment Day is coming!” These are the words of my Master God. ‘I'll send a famine through the whole country. It won't be food or water that's lacking, but my Word. People will drift from one end of the country to the other, roam to the north, wander to the east. They'll go anywhere, listen to anyone, hoping to hear God's Word—but they won't hear it.’”

Did our Lord say that “Judgement Day is coming”? Another new age term: “master god”? When did our “LORD” all of a sudden become a “master god”? Where did our LORD say that we would drift from one end of the country to listen?

These very words show exactly what I have been saying how Eugene distorts, misrepresents, adds, deletes, and waters-down His Living Inspired Word.

Actually Amos 8:11 are being proved by Eugene Peterson’s book, The Message!

As I have said on a number of times, why did he delete any references to “Lord Jesus” and “Lord Jesus Christ”? Why did he omit most references to the word “Lord”? Why does he use the new age term for our Lord Jesus Christ with “Master Jesus”, which appears in no translations whatsoever?

There is an agenda behind The Message.

Answer those questions with a rational, factual study and breakdown of those reasons, and not criticise and challenge traditional and factual truth and facts with reality and certainty, and the values of His Word without being felt ridiculed, intimidated and rejected just to conform to the new paradigm that is being fed to the Body of Christ through such books that desecrate His Living Inspired Word?

Be blessed in Jesus' Name.

You buy into conspiracy theories don't you?

 

[Radagast]

Personally I think this is a reasonable paraphrase of Matthew 3:7-10, on repentance:

When John realized that a lot of Pharisees and Sadducees were showing up for a baptismal experience because it was becoming the popular thing to do, he exploded: "Brood of snakes! What do you think you're doing slithering down here to the river? Do you think a little water on your snakeskins is going to make any difference? It's your life that must change, not your skin! And don't think you can pull rank by claiming Abraham as father. Being a descendant of Abraham is neither here nor there. Descendants of Abraham are a dime a dozen. What counts is your life. Is it green and blossoming? Because if it's deadwood, it goes on the fire.

In general The Message tries not to use words like "repentance" or "doctrine" that are unfamiliar to many people. That doesn't mean the ideas have been cut out!

And as I've said before, it's no substitute for a literal translation, but The Message has been helpful to many people.

 

[Radagast]

...

 

[Elijah2]

You buy into conspiracy theories don't you?

My dear logos, His Inspired Word is NO consipracy!

Be blessed in Jesus' Name.

 

[LogosRhema]

You were just talking about Eugene Peterson's The Message like it had some agenda of evil to destroy and mislead the Church. I've been reading the NIV most of my life and decided to check out the Message with those who have a hard time even understanding what the NIV is saying and from what I find the Message is very basic and it does lack what NIV or KJV offers as far as being indepth, but the Message indeed does parallel KJV/NIV. Through the Message I've gotten I don't know how many people who would not give the Bible a chance, to start reading it after they realize the easy language it speaks in.

I've seen God's work because of the Message's translation. If I'm seeing God's work in His leading them through the Message, how can you say its bad? Unless you oppose His Work and seed sown through the Message. Actually a buddy of mine started to read it... He's reading an amplified version now, but two weeks ago I saw a friend, whom I battled with since middle school commit his life to Christ and was baptised to show his commitment made about 2 years ago... Most of my friends are not devoted or are not Chrisitans... and to see one of my best friend be baptised was such a blessing... And it all started by purchasing him a basic version of the Bible and MANY discussion and prayers....

 

[Radagast]

...I've seen God's work because of the Message's translation...

Praise God!

 

[Elijah2]

You were just talking about Eugene Peterson's The Message like it had some agenda of evil to destroy and mislead the Church. I've been reading the NIV most of my life and decided to check out the Message with those who have a hard time even understanding what the NIV is saying and from what I find the Message is very basic and it does lack what NIV or KJV offers as far as being indepth, but the Message indeed does parallel KJV/NIV. Through the Message I've gotten I don't know how many people who would not give the Bible a chance, to start reading it after they realize the easy language it speaks in.

I've seen God's work because of the Message's translation. If I'm seeing God's work in His leading them through the Message, how can you say its bad? Unless you oppose His Work and seed sown through the Message. Actually a buddy of mine started to read it... He's reading an amplified version now, but two weeks ago I saw a friend, whom I battled with since middle school commit his life to Christ and was baptised to show his commitment made about 2 years ago... Most of my friends are not devoted or are not Chrisitans... and to see one of my best friend be baptised was such a blessing... And it all started by purchasing him a basic version of the Bible and MANY discussion and prayers....

Mate, you have read so much into it, and have missed the very point that I have been saying and making all along.

It's all "watered-down" "MILK", and if you want to keep drinking "MILK" then any "MEAT" given to you will only be opposed as in case of what you have said.

Great that your buddy has come to our Lord, and it's great that through using such a "watered-down" version has helped many to come to our Lord Jesus Christ. And the only reason why it helped those is because it's "watered-down" and is non-threatening in anyway, because it has desecrated HIS INSPIRED WORD by distorting, misrepresenting, deleting from and adding to it to make it comfortable to those who are conformed to the world through the philosophy of the world and are not prepared to transform and renew their carnal and spiritual mind (the brain and the heart).

Now after your buddy has come to our Lord, have you been feeding him "MEAT"?

Now, you just said that The Message is a translation. Mate, it ISN'T a translation it's Eugene Peterson's personal interpretation why he thinks His Inspired Word should say. It's not a translation; it's a BOOK written by a Christian, nothing more and nothing less.

I can assure you that if you think you can live a Christian Life and abide in His Inspired Word through reading a watered-down version of His Word, and believe that you are being "sober and vigilant to the roaring lion and his wiles that deceives and seduces through the doctrine of demons and empty deceit of traditions of men through their philosophy of the world that is false teaching and isn't in accordance with our Lord Jesus Christ", then only you will have to answer to our Lord Jesus Christ.

Today in the Body of Christ there is so much “Wilful Ignorance”, and our Lord Jesus Christ says: “Therefore they say unto God, Depart from us; for we desire not the knowledge of thy ways.” (Job 21:14)

Matthew Henry said: “Man’s apostasy began in an affectation of forbidden knowledge, but is kept up by an affectation of forbidden ignorance.”


Today, these last days of perilous time, the Body of Christ is living in a time of great apostasy when many choose to ignore or disbelieve the simplicity of the Gospel of
Salvation, and the Message of the Cross, believes that the simplicity of Eugene Peterson’s gospel of “The (new age) Message” is better. That is so sad!

Be blessed in Jesus’ Name.

 

[Elijah2]

Praise God!

Which one?

Our "Lord", "Lord Jesus", "Lord Jesus Christ" or Eugene Peterson's "master jesus"?

Be blessed in Jesus' Name.

 

[imperfectchristian]

My dear brother, Twigy, this posting isn’t directed to you only.

I have stated all along that The Message is not a Bible translation, but only a personal interpretation of Eugene Peterson with his own agenda in mind, through the new emerging church paradigm.

Peterson claims that he consulted the ancient text, and is retelling the message of the Bible, verse by verse, in everyday, colloquial English, but only according to his own understanding of each verse of the Bible, and not HIS MESSAGE.

Now he does a rather good job of what is called “proof-texting” with his own agenda in mind, and the new emerging church’s agenda. Those who study His Living Inspired Word know that Eugene’s theological leanings get in the way of “TRUTH” and fails to reveal the real truth of His Living Inspired Word, because he deletes most important phrases that are the clutch pin of “Christian Living”, and his interpretation has no real meaning to such a life.

SIN and REPENTANCE is missing completely!

The Message doesn’t fit into any category of a basis of John 8:32, “TRUTH that you will know the truth that sets you free.”

The Message’s story is appealing to the new emerging church’s paradigm; new Christians; and those wayside, stony, and thorny Christians who prefer to remain half-hearted and lukewarm, filling their appetite space of their “comfort zone” with “milk” and not “meat”, and don’t want to be disturbed, or woken up from their ‘corruptible seed” fantasy world, to the “incorruptible seed” of TRUTH!

There are so many verses that are only mere interpretation, with no direct meaning to the Greek or Hebrew text, and greatly differ from any translation or commentary that confirms the Greek and Hebrew text.

Eugene presents a non-accurate, theologically biased, and a distorted, misrepresented, and watered-down understanding of the ancient texts, and the claims that he writes it in everyday English, and Eugene’s agenda is fulfilled by his paradigm. No wonder Amos 8:11 is becoming true today:

NKJV: “‘Behold, the days are coming’, says the Lord GOD, ‘That I will send a famine on the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD.’”

The Message: “‘Oh yes, Judgment Day is coming!” These are the words of my Master God. ‘I'll send a famine through the whole country. It won't be food or water that's lacking, but my Word. People will drift from one end of the country to the other, roam to the north, wander to the east. They'll go anywhere, listen to anyone, hoping to hear God's Word—but they won't hear it.’”

Did our Lord say that “Judgement Day is coming”? Another new age term: “master god”? When did our “LORD” all of a sudden become a “master god”? Where did our LORD say that we would drift from one end of the country to listen?

These very words show exactly what I have been saying how Eugene distorts, misrepresents, adds, deletes, and waters-down His Living Inspired Word.

Actually Amos 8:11 are being proved by Eugene Peterson’s book, The Message!

As I have said on a number of times, why did he delete any references to “Lord Jesus” and “Lord Jesus Christ”? Why did he omit most references to the word “Lord”? Why does he use the new age term for our Lord Jesus Christ with “Master Jesus”, which appears in no translations whatsoever?

There is an agenda behind The Message.

Answer those questions with a rational, factual study and breakdown of those reasons, and not criticise and challenge traditional and factual truth and facts with reality and certainty, and the values of His Word without being felt ridiculed, intimidated and rejected just to conform to the new paradigm that is being fed to the Body of Christ through such books that desecrate His Living Inspired Word?

Be blessed in Jesus' Name.

Acknowledged brother E2.

I think you are right in that it is opinionated ... hard for it not to be really.

To conclude that E. Peterson has some dark, new age agenda is quite another thing entirely.

I am not interested in arguing the point however.

I have considered what you have said.

I agree that it is not a translation. I used the word translation in another thread earlier loosely...I meant paraphrase which it obiously is. I also recanted from my over zealous statement earlier saying that I preferred it to my ESV translation. That was an gross overstatement. I love the ESV...I grew up reading the KJV and I feel very at home with the ESV translation, not to mention it is easy to read, retains the poetic feel of the KJV and is much easier to understand than the KJV. Read side by side they are very similar.

I hope this sets your heart at ease brother.

 

[Izdaari Eristikon]

][/color]
Now, you just said that The Message is a translation. Mate, it ISN'T a translation it's Eugene Peterson's personal interpretation why he thinks His Inspired Word should say. It's not a translation; it's a BOOK written by a Christian, nothing more and nothing less.

And I agree: The Message is not a translation, but a paraphrase. And a paraphrase is, by its nature, sort of a commentary. Not the actual Bible, but Peterson's interpretation of the Bible. Well, I like commentaries, and in particular I like Peterson's commentary in the form of a paraphrase. And of course it's not a good substitute for a real Bible -- no commentary ever is -- but I find it a very good supplement to one.

I agree that it is not a translation. I used the word translation in another thread earlier loosely...I meant paraphrase which it obiously is. I also recanted from my over zealous statement earlier saying that I preferred it to my ESV translation. That was an gross overstatement. I love the ESV...I grew up reading the KJV and I feel very at home with the ESV translation, not to mention it is easy to read, retains the poetic feel of the KJV and is much easier to understand than the KJV. Read side by side they are very similar.

And for those reasons, the ESV is my favorite real translation. It does what, for me, the KJV fails to do. Though I appreciate the majestic and poetic qualities of the KJV, I didn't grow up with it and never became comfortable with it. To me, the KJV is awkward and obscure. But the ESV keeps the poetic feel of the KJV while being much more comfortable and accessable. I have the new ESV Study Bible (which just came out last month), and I love it!

 

[Elijah2]

Acknowledged brother E2.

I think you are right in that it is opinionated ... hard for it not to be really.

To conclude that E. Peterson has some dark, new age agenda is quite another thing entirely.

I am not interested in arguing the point however.

I have considered what you have said.

I agree that it is not a translation. I used the word translation in another thread earlier loosely...I meant paraphrase which it obiously is. I also recanted from my over zealous statement earlier saying that I preferred it to my ESV translation. That was an gross overstatement. I love the ESV...I grew up reading the KJV and I feel very at home with the ESV translation, not to mention it is easy to read, retains the poetic feel of the KJV and is much easier to understand than the KJV. Read side by side they are very similar.

I hope this sets your heart at ease brother.

Mate, it does put my heart at ease, but it does concern men when I people accuse me of arguing, because all I am doing is calling a spade, a spade, through the leading of the Holy Spirit, and exactly what is the truth of His Inspired Word, nothing more and nothing less.

Be blessed in Jesus' Name.

 

[Elijah2]

And I agree: The Message is not a translation, but a paraphrase. And a paraphrase is, by its nature, sort of a commentary. Not the actual Bible, but Peterson's interpretation of the Bible. Well, I like commentaries, and in particular I like Peterson's commentary in the form of a paraphrase. And of course it's not a good substitute for a real Bible -- no commentary ever is -- but I find it a very good supplement to one.


And for those reasons, the ESV is my favorite real translation. It does what, for me, the KJV fails to do. Though I appreciate the majestic and poetic qualities of the KJV, I didn't grow up with it and never became comfortable with it. To me, the KJV is awkward and obscure. But the ESV keeps the poetic feel of the KJV while being much more comfortable and accessable. I have the new ESV Study Bible (which just came out last month), and I love it!

I haven't read the ESV, but lately I have heard others talking about The Full Life Study Bible, KJV, and as I search for this Bible I have found it hard to get and is a collectors item. Why is this so? The last source I found was a perfect, mint condtion still in it's plastic cover for $100US plus. Interesting.

Be blessed in Jesus' Name.