Our responsibility....please sign this

[inquisitor_11]

However if you think we will be judged to eternal condemnation just on our lack of works as goats in Matthew 25 says then that is surely salvation by works?

That's what the Man said... lets not go beyond what is written, nor let our doctrines get in the way of following Christ.

 

[Treasure the Questions]

That is a difficult verse, and the context could throw some light on it possibly, but it does seem to be a stark warining to us all. Perhaps, like the sermon on the mount it's an example of God's high standards and by God's grace and Jesus' redeeming work we can be saved from banishment from Jesus' presence by a faith that allows Holy Spirit to make us more compassionate people who do our best according to the limits our humanity and individual sitations place on us. Then God will not judge us against his perfection, but against what we were capable of. Pehaps that is the difference salvation brings.

Karin

 

[ahab]

Hi Treasure the Questions,



On the contrary, I see it that we both support the work to help the least and the lost with the same compassion, but I think you see simply helping as the principle whereas I see helping through Jesus as the principle in these scriptures. But this cant be about literal translation because when Jesus commands us to help the lost and the least it is no more literally true than that when He says others are doing it in His name.

 

[ahab]

Hi rainbowprism,



I agree with you that as followers of Jesus we are to be focused on Jesus.

I have never said salvation is by works.

No my point was that if Matthew 25 is about eternal life or eternal death simply on what we do, it seems contrary to what we understand from the rest of the NT that salvation is not by works but by believing Jesus is Lord. That is why I believe it may be about how the nations treat Israel, but IMO it is much more likely to be about how people treat those who tell others about the gospel (as in Luke 9, Mark 6 Matthew 10 where Jesus sends out the disciples)

 

[rainbowprism]

Hi Treasure the Questions,



On the contrary, I see it that we both support the work to help the least and the lost with the same compassion, but I think you see simply helping as the principle whereas I see helping through Jesus as the principle in these scriptures. But this cant be about literal translation because when Jesus commands us to help the lost and the least it is no more literally true than that when He says others are doing it in His name.

I understand what you mean. Helping isn't merely the principle for me, and I can see how you might have thought that. No, nothing I do in "ministry" is my own doing...it is through Jesus using me to do his desire.

 

[ahab]

I agree that there are plenty of stark warnings from Jesus and the NT apostles and disciples about what Jesus said. However surely we are not motivated to love the lost and help the poor and needy or anyone else just by a threat, but because we love Jesus and know what He has done for us.

Our responsibility is to help the poor and tell them the gospel because we are Jesus disciples.

 

[Treasure the Questions]

Hi Treasure the Questions,
On the contrary, I see it that we both support the work to help the least and the lost with the same compassion, but I think you see simply helping as the principle whereas I see helping through Jesus as the principle in these scriptures.

On what do you base that assumption? I don't think I've said that, in fact the whole point, as I see it, is that being a Christian means Christ changes us to have his compassion and empowers us to work with him. We are Christ's hands and feet, continuing his work on earth, but the impetus comes through Holy Spirit working in us, as we allow her.

But this can't be about literal translation because when Jesus commands us to help the lost and the least it is no more literally true than that when He says others are doing it in His name.

Please explain your meaning?

Karin

 

[ahab]

Hi Treasure the Questions,



Yes I agree that Christ changes us to make Kingdom choices, and empowers us by His Holy Spirit in us to work for Him and the Kingdom of God, we agreed on a long time ago I think. So what difference do you think between those who operate under the authority and blessing of Jesus and those who dont?



As to explaining those scriptures, it might be important to note that despite the exclusive mentality of the disciples towards those who were doing the work of Jesus, Jesus says they were doing the work in His name and so not against ‘us’ or ‘you’. Because of the work or because of Jesus or both?

 

[Treasure the Questions]

Hi Treasure the Questions,

Yes I agree that Christ changes us to make Kingdom choices, and empowers us by His Holy Spirit in us to work for Him and the Kingdom of God, we agreed on a long time ago I think. So what difference do you think between those who operate under the authority and blessing of Jesus and those who dont?

As to explaining those scriptures, it might be important to note that despite the exclusive mentality of the disciples towards those who were doing the work of Jesus, Jesus says they were doing the work in His name and so not against ‘us’ or ‘you’. Because of the work or because of Jesus or both?

Perhaps the answer to both your questions lies in the meaning of "in Jesus' name". In my more evangelical days, when I only read books by "good evangelicals", I remember reading that the reason we don't get everything we pray for is that we don't pray "in God's name", and the author defined this as praying according to God's will and purposes. I can't remember who it was unfortunately, although it seems he was no literalist, but the idea seems credible. If you extend this meaning of "in God's name" to the meaning of "in Jesus' name" then we could say those who are working "in Jesus' name" are those who are working according to Jesus' will and purposes.

Now if someone uses un-Christlike means to feed the hungry, for example: if they lie, cheat, steal or use violence to achieve their ends I wouldn't say they are doing it in Jesus' name as he is against all that. However, if they use peaceful and honest means to feed the hungry then they are acting according to Jesus' will and purposes whether they know it or not.

It is a fact that some people are inspired to act selflessly without acknowledging Christ in their lives. Myself I need to be motivated by love for Christ and driven by his Spirit working in me.

Karin

 

[ahab]

Hi Treasure the Questions,


Bearing in mind that all these campaign groups appear to be acknowledging Jesus so I should really only be thankful and praising their work .....
Yes that’s what we both consider ‘in the name of Jesus’ is, I think we might both be saying it isnt a formula but a spiritual authority, but my question was what difference do you think it makes between operating under the authority and blessing of Jesus and not doing so?

You see IMO the scriptures you referred to (Mark 6, Luke 9) aren’t really relevant to the work of giving and helping the poor, Jesus says that we do so quite emphatically elsewhere, but that those who are neutral about Jesus are not necessarily for Him; in fact, these others are operating in Jesus' name. The other message of these two passages might also be about the wrong exclusive attitude of the disciples that they might be the only ones who Jesus commissions to do His work.

 

[rainbowprism]

You know what guys, I appreciate all this debating but nobody is DOING anything. Please either sign the petition or start another thread.

 

[Kaonashi]

I went ahead and signed it.

 

[Treasure the Questions]

As I've said before I'd be happy to sign it, but it seems very much only for Americans. I did look for a link to something similar for citizens of the UK or Europe, but could see nothing.

It seems very worthwhile to me and I hope plenty of people do sign it, and let you know, so you can feel encouraged.

Karin

 

[inquisitor_11]

^I'm in the same boat (non-US). For all those non-US types (and Yanks too) who feel keen to wack their signatures somewhere:

http://www.micahchallenge.org/home/default.asp

 

[rainbowprism]

I went ahead and signed it.

Thank you! God bless.

 

[rainbowprism]

As I've said before I'd be happy to sign it, but it seems very much only for Americans. I did look for a link to something similar for citizens of the UK or Europe, but could see nothing.

It seems very worthwhile to me and I hope plenty of people do sign it, and let you know, so you can feel encouraged.

Karin

Here you go Karin! http://www.data.org/worldwide/uk/

 

[rainbowprism]

Here you go Inqusitor! http://www.data.org/worldwide/australia/

I appreciate you and Treasure being supportive of what seems to be an uphill battle for me. Thank you!

 

[Dogman]

I signed up too. It seems to me a lot of Christians are misinformed about the aids epidemic. Perhaps it would help them to go to WHO and/or the CDC websites to see what group of people suffer most from the virus. No intelligent person would choose to be ignorant of the facts I'm sure. And certainly Christians shouldn't be spreading false information.

 

[ParkAveShrink]

Did you know that the average age of the active homosexual in the USA is about 42 years! Few people know that. That is because the so-called AIDS miracle cures are so much smoke and mirrors. They give false hope. The best way to solve the AIDS crisis is the Bible's way: abstinance from sex outside of marriage.

Really? Your information is incorrect.

Paul Cameorn was barred from the American Psychology Association for making up data and misrepresenting previous research done by other scientists/psychologists for peer reviewed articles regarding why homosexuals should be banned from society.

Two of his many "non-facts" were:
Lesbians have a life span of 42 years
Homosexual males have a life span of 39 years.

After being bounced out of the APA, he started the Family Research Council to continue is propaganda.

May I suggest reading other books than the Bible. You may be surprised what you learn.