Our church's teaching of what happens after death

[All4Christ]

Toll houses are a controversial topic...definitely not the official, authoritative position

Rather...the interpretation of what toll houses are (literal or figurative) is controversial

http://www.ancientfaith.com/podcasts/illuminedheart/toll_houses_after_death_reality_or_heresy

 

[truefiction1]

Toll houses are a controversial topic...definitely not the official, authoritative position

Controversial? Since when?

 

[All4Christ]

Controversial? Since when?

See the link I included above - and search the many toll house threads on TAW...they get interesting!

Here is one of the many threads from TAW:

http://www.christianforums.com/t7591138/


Here is another from online:

http://www.stlukeorthodox.com/html/evangelist/2000/deathtoll.htm

I think the core controversy is whether toll houses are literal or figurative

 

[SeventhValley]

Are toll houses in non-canonical scripture or alluded to in scripture?

 

[Wryetui]

Are toll houses in non-canonical scripture or alluded to in scripture?

From what I have read, it is a teaching that belongs to the first centuries of christianity, developed between the Fathers of the Desert, through divine revelation.

 

[jckstraw72]

Rather...the interpretation of what toll houses are (literal or figurative) is controversial

http://www.ancientfaith.com/podcasts/illuminedheart/toll_houses_after_death_reality_or_heresy

some people do create a controversy over this - they reject the toll houses because they interpret them literally - but i have yet to find any toll house supporters who interpret them literally, so i don't understand what the deniers are responding/reacting to.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Yikes for those in hell! God be merciful to us!

Are the fires in heave and hell like "fire" as we see it? Would you consider the "fire and brimstone" belief unOrthodox? Curious.

the fire is just what has always been used to show God's presence in the Bible (Burning Bush, pillar of fire, tongues of fire, etc). the best analogy from the OT is the Three Holy Youths in Daniel. the same fire that killed the wicked Chaldeans, was as a bedewed breeze to them.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Are toll houses in non-canonical scripture or alluded to in scripture?

they are in Scripture. in Lazarus and the rich man, the parable of the rich young fool, the contest of the devil and the angels over Moses, St Paul writing we wrestle with the powers of the air, Christ saying the prince of this world is coming but has no power

 

[All4Christ]

some people do create a controversy over this - they reject the toll houses because they interpret them literally - but i have yet to find any toll house supporters who interpret them literally, so i don't understand what the deniers are responding/reacting to.

The first time I heard of them was here in TAW quite some time ago, and it seemed to be pretty controversial here. I asked my priest about it and he said that it was supported by tradition, but is not dogma. In particular, some of the controversy was promoted by extreme viewpoints of multiple Orthodox writers. As in Orthodoxy, there are many things we view as true that we do not know dogmatically exactly how it will play out.

 

[SeventhValley]

they are in Scripture. in Lazarus and the rich man, the parable of the rich young fool, the contest of the devil and the angels over Moses, St Paul writing we wrestle with the powers of the air, Christ saying the prince of this world is coming but has no power

So toll boths are just a name for pre-death spiritual struggles?

 

[ArmyMatt]

So toll boths are just a name for pre-death spiritual struggles?

it's the allegory for what happens to the soul when someone dies as the demons come to accuse and decieve the soul, the angels and the saints try to help the soul, and depending on the soul's inclination, he either follows the demons or the angels (which is the Judgment of Christ).

Fr George Aquaro, an Antiochian priest, says that the toll houses are really just a more real experience of the spiritual warfare that we go through now.

 

[SeventhValley]

they are in Scripture. in Lazarus and the rich man, the parable of the rich young fool, the contest of the devil and the angels over Moses, St Paul writing we wrestle with the powers of the air, Christ saying the prince of this world is coming but has no power

Lazarus is already decided and with Moses they were fighting over the body not the soul.

 

[SeventhValley]

Fr George Aquaro, an Antiochian priest, says that the toll houses are really just a more real experience of the spiritual warfare that we go through now.

Makes sense.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Lazarus is already decided and with Moses they were fighting over the body not the soul.

the point with Lazarus is that the angels came for him. the point of the Moses is that it was a contest between the angels and the demons.

 

[RileyG]

the fire is just what has always been used to show God's presence in the Bible (Burning Bush, pillar of fire, tongues of fire, etc). the best analogy from the OT is the Three Holy Youths in Daniel. the same fire that killed the wicked Chaldeans, was as a bedewed breeze to them.

Thanks

 

[ArmyMatt]

Thanks

no probs. I think you can also (since we just had Easter) use the analogy of the angel at the Tomb to roll away the rock. the guards become full of fear and fall as though dead, the women's fear turns into the joy of the risen Christ.