OSASers must believe that God created human robots!

[FreeGrace2]

We also see that 'predestination' isn't permanent.

Where is that taught in Scripture?

 

[EmSw]

Where is that taught in Scripture?

I didn't know you believed in predestination.

Let me ask you - if you were predestined to walk in darkness, how is it you are now walking in light? Why are you not still walking in darkness if His predestination is permanent?

 

[FreeGrace2]

I didn't know you believed in predestination.

It is clearly taught in Scripture. Everyone who names the Name of Christ should believe it.

Let me ask you - if you were predestined to walk in darkness, how is it you are now walking in light? Why are you not still walking in darkness if His predestination is permanent?

That's not the meaning of "predestination". The Bible does NOT teach that anyone is predestined to walk in darkness, or to sin, or to rebel against God. That's fallacious.

Scripture teaches that all believers have been predestined to be conformed to the image of Christ, per Rom 8:29. And all believers WILL be ultimately. No one will be perfectly so in this life. But all will be perfectly in the next life.

 

[nobdysfool]

staff edit.

Who has tried to refute it? No one that I know of. What is involved with being predestined to be conformed to the Image of His Son? They have to be believers, don't they? Are they not also predestined to other things in that same passage? what is the first requirement? Salvation. therefore, they MUST be predestined to Salvation along with all the other things they are predestined to in this passage. THAT is what is being argued against, not Romans 8:29.

Please provide evidence of this charge, or withdraw it.

 

[FreeGrace2]

The more one posts this correct teaching, for example:

Romans 8:29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters.

The more it appears that other CF members pop up to refute it. WHY is this ? It sure is maddening.

I've never disagreed, much less, tried to refute Rom 8:29. It clearly indicates that all believers have been predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son.

What it doesn't say nor indicate nor insinuate is that God chooses who will believe.

 

[JLB777]

staff edit

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ,
4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,
5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,
6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved. Ephesians 1:3-6


God through His foreknowledge, chose those who are in Christ... before the foundation of the world to adoption as sons.

The choice to believe/obey is still up to each of us.

...choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve. Joshua 24:15


When we are born again, we still have a choice to:

Practice the works of the flesh, or not.

To present our members as instruments of righteousness, or of sin.

Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one's slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? Romans 6:16

Just like Adam who was without sin, who chose to disobey God, and believe Satan, we too have a choice.


JLB

 

[Blank Stair]

Just imagine, Jesus spent His ministry years 'undoing' what God had supposedly 'predestined'. Makes you wonder!

We also see that 'predestination' isn't permanent.

No one who reads the Bible could ever arrive at such a conclusion as that.

 

[SinnerInTheHands]

Just like Adam who was without sin, who chose to disobey God, and believe Satan, we too have a choice.

"Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard his spots? Then also you can do good who are accustomed to do evil." [Jeremiah 13:23]

"For those whom He foreknew He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, in order that He might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom He predestined He also called, and those whom He called He also justified, and those whom He justified He also glorified. What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? He who did not spare His own Son but gave Him up for us all, how will He not also with Him graciously give us all things? Who shall bring any charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies." [Romans 8:29-33]

 

[Marvin Knox]

No one who reads the Bible could ever arrive at such a conclusion as that.

Many have undertaken the task of correcting the doctrine of EmSw in the past. His is one of the most wrong headed views of predestination I have witnessed here in the forum.

He refuses to stand corrected. He is willingly ignorant of the doctrines surrounding predestination.

His hatred of all thing Calvinistic has clouded his judgment IMO.

He says some of the dumbest things I have ever heard related to the doctrine of predestination.

 

[Blank Stair]

What does that tell you about attempting a civil informed conversation with such a one?

 

[Job8]

Many have undertaken the task of correcting the doctrine of EmSw in the past. His is one of the most wrong headed views of predestination I have witnessed here in the forum.

He refuses to stand corrected. He is willingly ignorant of the doctrines surrounding predestination.

His hatred of all thing Calvinistic has clouded his judgment IMO.

He says some of the dumbest things I have ever heard related to the doctrine of predestination.

And we should not take this as a personal attack against an individual?

 

[SinnerInTheHands]

And we should not take this as a personal attack against an individual?

Which all of us [including you] have been guilty of earlier in the thread.

 

[Job8]

Which all of us [including you] have been guilty of earlier in the thread.

Since you have accused me of that in this thread, show evidence. Or apologize.

 

[Marvin Knox]

And we should not take this as a personal attack against an individual?

Other than passing judgment as to what has clouded his judgement - my post was all about the content of his posts.

His hatred of Calvinism is self evident. Still - that may not be what is clouding his judgment.

It could be other things I suppose.

My apologies to you, EmSw, for jumping to a conclusion.

 

[SinnerInTheHands]

staff edit

"What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means! For He says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” So then He has mercy on whomever He wills, and He hardens whomever He wills. You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who can resist His will?” But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? What if God, desiring to show His wrath and to make known His power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which He has prepared beforehand for glory - even us whom He has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?" [Romans 9:14-24]

 

[SinnerInTheHands]

The fact, as you have stated, there is no injustice with God also prove the antitheses of predestination to damnation.

No, now you're forcing God to abide by your own human conception of justice. Reread Romans 9:14-24.

 

[nobdysfool]

.

 

[EmSw]

No one who reads the Bible could ever arrive at such a conclusion as that.

If you believe God predestines 'everything', why would you not arrive at such a conclusion? Did God predestine you to walk in darkness?

 

[EmSw]

I've never disagreed, much less, tried to refute Rom 8:29. It clearly indicates that all believers have been predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son.

What it doesn't say nor indicate nor insinuate is that God chooses who will believe.

Where does it say believers are predestined to be conformed to His image? I believe says those whom God foreknew. Please inform us of anyone who was not foreknown to God. Was God's omniscience lacking in foreknowing some people?

 

[EmSw]

Many have undertaken the task of correcting the doctrine of EmSw in the past. His is one of the most wrong headed views of predestination I have witnessed here in the forum.

He refuses to stand corrected. He is willingly ignorant of the doctrines surrounding predestination.

His hatred of all thing Calvinistic has clouded his judgment IMO.

He says some of the dumbest things I have ever heard related to the doctrine of predestination.

I understand your perception of my 'hatred' for Calvinism. I don't hold that against you Marvin.

I don't think anyone here holds to the same view of predestination as others. There are many variations, as there are beliefs.

You have stated God predestines everything. If one would investigate this belief, he would find God predestining things which are totally against His word. How many times is man told to flee, turn away from, cease from, and resist sin? How is it God predestines man to sin, when it is His desire and command for man to turn away from sin? It doesn't add up. However, if man wants to believe God predestines against His truth, then he has absolute freedom to do so.

The reason I don't call your beliefs shallow, or call you wrong-headed, is because God gave you the freedom to believe as you wish. If you desire to believe anything you want, and call it your doctrine, go right ahead. But, I certainly have the right and freedom to disagree with you.