OSASers must believe that God created human robots!

[extraordinary]

OSASers believe either (1) or (2):
(1) God chose (elected) certain humans to be given His free gift of grace-faith
(2) humans chose who would believe and receive God’s free gift of grace-faith

Either way … these humans are created into born-again Christians.
They are transformed into new creations (2 Cor 5:17).

OSASers believe these new creations cannot lose their salvation.
No matter what they do … i.e. they have NO choice in the matter!

Ergo, they actually are human robots … i.e. they have NO free will.

Here are 7 websites that expain why the the doctrine of OSAS is false …

Once Saved, Always Saved
One heresy leads to another heresy – requiring two lies! The lie of decisional regeneration
needs the lie of guaranteed eternal life to comfort the "saved" who continue living in sin.

The Inadequate Historical Precedent for "Once Saved, Always Saved" byr Steve Witzki
John J. Davis wrote an article titled: “The Perseverance of the Saints: A History of the Doctrine”
[Journal of Evangelical Theological Society 34:2 (June 1991)]. Three things make this article
of great value. First, it was written by a well-known and highly respected Calvinist theologian.
Second, it covers the key people and church groups on the topic. Third, it demonstrates that
“once saved, always saved” or unconditional eternal security was not a doctrine that was taught
by the ancient church, nor for that manner, by any well-known theologian before John Calvin.
This doctrine is, in fact, completely foreign in the history of Christianity.
… Furthermore, the brand of “once saved, always saved” teaching that tells people
that they can stop believing and still be on their way to heaven (but with less rewards)
is nowhere to be found in historic Christianity prior to the twentieth century.

Once Saved Always Saved - Fact or Fiction?
According to the above Bible verses, obedience most certainly does affect our salvation
and you can lose it. I guess my point in all of this is this, if you have lost your first love
and have left the church and God and are living for the world, then maybe you need to
stop and ask yourself this most important question. Am I converted? Am I born again?
Am I on the pathway to heaven? Or am I just fooling myself ...

"Once Saved Always Saved" is a Doctrine of Deception
'Once saved always saved' is a subtle twist by false teachers. It is a doctrine of deception.
According to them ‘saved’ is a status that inherits heaven. Once we got it we will not lose it
no matter what we do. That is, even if a saved man rapes and kills a girl, surely he will go
to heaven while the unsaved victim goes to hell. It is ridiculous before the holy God.

Eternal security, Apostasy, Perseverance, Falling from Grace
If Jesus' blood saves by itself with no conditions to be met, then why is faith necessary?
The Bible expressly shows that there are conditions children of God must meet
to be cleansed by Jesus' blood.

Welcome to The JESUSFREAK.NETwork -- "Once saved, always saved" is not Biblical
Did Jesus ever teach that once you are saved, that you cannot lose your salvation?
We are assured eternal security, yes, but only to those who remain in the faith until the end.
To those who Obey Him and overcome!

Bible Question: Did the early church believe "Once Saved Always Saved"?
Conclusion: These men wrote from about A.D. 100 – 250. We do not find any statements to
the effect that once a Christian is saved, he or she is always saved. But we do find a consistent
belief, except for a few instances, that faith and works go together. This is consistent with the
teachings of the Bible. It is important to note that the doctrine of “Once Saved Always Saved”
did not appear in the literature of the church until the Reformation period.
.

 

[Skala]

OSASers believe these new creations cannot lose their salvation.
No matter what they do … i.e. they have NO choice in the matter!

Ergo, they actually are human robots … i.e. they have NO free will.

Your argument is immediately demolished when you apply your statements to people who are in heaven.

 

[Hammster]

Your argument is immediately demolished when you apply your statements to people who are in heaven.

Or in hell.

 

[EmSw]

Your argument is immediately demolished when you apply your statements to people who are in heaven.

Why do you say that? It was man's free-will choice to believe and obey God's word on earth which opens the door to heaven.

Why should man lose his free will in heaven?

 

[Hammster]

Why do you say that? It was man's free-will choice to believe and obey God's word on earth which opens the door to heaven.

Why should man lose his free will in heaven?

So there will be the potential for sin in heaven?

 

[sdowney717]

extraordinary, what do you think of Reprobation Asserted?
John Bunyan, ca. 1674
Reprobation Asserted, John Bunyan | The Reformed Reader

3. A third scripture is that in the Acts of the Apostles, "And as many as were ordained to eternal life, believed." xiii. 48.

"And as many;" by these words, as by the former, you may see how the Holy Ghost distinguisheth or divideth between men and men; the sons, and the sons of Adam.

"As many as were ordained to eternal life, believed:" If by many here, we are to understand every individual, then not only the whole world must at least believe the gospel, of which we see the most fall short, but they must be ordained to eternal life; which other scriptures contradict: for there is the rest, besides the elect; the stubble and chaff, as well as wheat: many therefore must here include but some;

"For though - Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved." Rom. ix. 27. Is. i. 9. and x. 22, 23.

 

[heymikey80]

So I take it the OP concludes everyone in Heaven & Hell are robots? I am just looking at the definitions stated and applying them. Apoarently Heaven doesnt have the option to sin, and Hell doesnt have to option to be saved. Following this extraordinary logic, both spiritual good and evil are robotic.

What about God? Does God have the free choice to do evil? By this logic what is inevitably concluded, when claiming God has no choice?

It is clear the OP uses cobbled-up definitions, tailored to attack. But it seems to cast too wide a net, making the whole of spiritual good and evil robotic. When the reverse is true.

 

[EmSw]

So there will be the potential for sin in heaven?

Who rebelled while in Heaven? How many angels fell from Heaven?

 

[Hammster]

Who rebelled while in Heaven? How many angels fell from Heaven?

None.

 

[EmSw]

None.

Good Hammster. Now who is able to tempt man while in heaven? Of course, the answer is no one. Now let's look at what James says in his first chapter -

13 Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone.
14 But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. 15 Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.

A couple of things we should notice here. God tempts no one; Satan is the tempter, and he has no place in heaven. So I ask, how is one drawn away by his own desires when he is not tempted?

Also, we are constantly commanded to rid ourselves of sin, iniquity, and transgressions. We are to purify our hearts to where our desires are good and not evil. Therefore, even if we are tempted in heaven, our desires would not entice us and give birth to sin.

 

[extraordinary]

Your argument is immediately demolished when you apply your statements to people who are in heaven.

I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about ...
just like some have made it clear in this thread ...
they have no idea what I'm talking about.
On, what fun this is!

I've mentioned before ...
my wife was educated in the USA (and was validictorian of her graduating class),
butski has no real understanding of the meaning and value of words!
(Not to mention that she doesn't really understand basic arithmetic.)
Makes life a tad bit difficult.
.

 

[extraordinary]

.
God has always given humans the free will to choose to follow & obey Him or not to …

“See, I have set before you today life and good, death and evil, in that I command you today to love
the Lord your God, to walk in His ways, and to keep His commandments, His statutes, and His judgments,
that you may live and multiply; and the Lord your God will bless you … But if your heart turns away
so that you do not hear, and are drawn away, and worship other gods and serve them, I announce
to you today that you shall surely perish … I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you,
that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you
and your descendants may live; that you may love the Lord your God, that you may obey His voice,
and that you may cling to Him, for He is your life and the length of your days …” (Deut 30:15-20)

If BACs have no choice regarding following and obeying God, they must be robots.

If BACs have no free will, then God must have transformed them into human robots.

Anyone here believe this to be the case?
.

 

[heymikey80]

Who rebelled while in Heaven? How many angels fell from Heaven?

Rv 12:7-9? 2 Pt 2:4? Jude 1:6?

 

[stenerson]

I believe in OSAS if God does the saving.. He's that great a Savior.
I don't believe in OSAS if it's according to extraordinary's false gospel.
The one where God and man are co-partners in Salvation.

EZ 36…26"Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27"I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances.

We are by nature at enmity with God, desperately wicked, non seekers of God, etc.
God takes out this lifeless, dead heart of stone and replaces it with a living heart of flesh.
One that is now alive unto God and freed. How any Christian can call that being made a
robot is blasphemy, IMHO.

 

[extraordinary]

I believe in OSAS if God does the saving.. He's that great a Savior.

This is all very fine and dandy.
But, you must believe that dozens of NT Scriptures are bluffs, exaggerations, even outright lies
... when dey warn and threaten dat habitual sin will damn them to hell.
Free-will co-operation with the Holy Spirit to not sin habitually is therefore required.

Let's see if we can simplify it for thou ...
All throughout Scripture, God has demanded co-operation from man.
And just because God gives a dirty rotten sinner His Holy Spirit
does not mean this person will end up in Heaven.
What it means is ... this person now has a much better shot at it.
But, he still has his free will to contend with.
God will do His best to help him/her to be an overcomer!
So, Good Luck to thou.
.

 

[heymikey80]

I believe in OSAS if God does the saving.. He's that great a Savior.
I don't believe in OSAS if it's according to extraordinary's false gospel.
The one where God and man are co-partners in Salvation.

Yes, there are lots of OSASes I dont believe; some dont even leap the hurdle of "once saved" before they fly on to "always saved".

But there are some full-orbed theologies that I do hold, that say, once saved, the rescue doesn't stop.

I would agree with you our work counts for nothing accomplishing our salvation. It is more the child mimicking what he sees Daddy do.

God makes us "hypernike"s. Good thing too. Im getting on in years, and no doubt in time to come I wont be able to do anything.

 

[stenerson]

This is all very fine and dandy.
But, you must believe that dozens of NT Scriptures are bluffs, exaggerations, even outright lies
... when dey warn and threaten dat habitual sin will damn them to hell.
Free-will co-operation with the Holy Spirit to not sin habitually is therefore required.

Let's see if we can simplify it for thou ...
All throughout Scripture, God has demanded co-operation from man.
And just because God gives a dirty rotten sinner His Holy Spirit
does not mean this person will end up in Heaven.
What it means is ... this person now has a much better shot at it.
But, he still has his free will to contend with.
God will do His best to help him/her to be an overcomer!
So, Good Luck to thou.
.

Yeah the Pharisees didn't get it either. Their reasoning was that if God demanded perfection, then perfection is possible if we try hard enough. That is with God's help, because God is giving this salvation thing His best college try.
God hasn't changed since men fell. He always has and always will demand perfection. Yes, even though we by nature hate God and His ways.
The good news is that He has paid the redemption price in full for all his sheep. They don't owe a dime. They have passed from death to life the moment they believed. If you don't believe or understand that you might as well become a Muslim, or a Mormon. Your understanding of grace and redemption is more in line with them.

 

[EmSw]

Yeah the Pharisees didn't get it either. Their reasoning was that if God demanded perfection, then perfection is possible if we try hard enough. That is with God's help, because God is giving this salvation thing His best college try.
God hasn't changed since men fell. He always has and always will demand perfection. Yes, even though we by nature hate God and His ways.
The good news is that He has paid the redemption price in full for all his sheep. They don't owe a dime. They have passed from death to life the moment they believed. If you don't believe or understand that you might as well become a Muslim, or a Mormon. Your understanding of grace and redemption is more in line with them.

Just what is/was the price for which Jesus paid-in-full?

If you say eternal death, then Jesus didn't pay that price, for He is alive today. If you say temporal death, then Jesus fulfilled this and paid the price.

Are the wages of sin temporal or eternal death?

 

[stenerson]

Just what is/was the price for which Jesus paid-in-full?

If you say eternal death, then Jesus didn't pay that price, for He is alive today. If you say temporal death, then Jesus fulfilled this and paid the price.

Are the wages of sin temporal or eternal death?

Why do you think God the Son was sent to save men...? Answer: because only He could.. Only He could be full of so much God pleasing righteousness. Only He could pay the price for a multitude of sinners, their eternal debt in a short time.

 

[EmSw]

Why do you think God the Son was sent to save men...? Answer: because only He could.. Only He could be full of so much God pleasing righteousness. Only He could pay the price for a multitude of sinners, their eternal debt in a short time.

The Son was sent to call sinners to repentance (Luke 5:32).
Without repentance, all men will perish (Luke 13:3).
Genuine repentance brings forgiveness of sins (Luke 24:47).

Forgiveness, which is given to all men after genuine repentance and turning from their sins, is the remission or pardon of sins. With full pardon, there remains no price to be paid for sins.

Strong's Concordance puts it this way:

1. release from bondage or imprisonment
2. forgiveness or pardon, of sins (letting them go as if they had never been committed), remission of the penalty

Please notice the last entry - remission or pardon of the penalty.
If man genuinely repents and is pardoned of the penalty, what penalty did Jesus take for us?

Let's look at the last words Jesus gave His disciples before His ascension.

Luke 24 -
44 Now He said to them, “These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.”
45 Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures,
46 and He said to them, “Thus it is written, that the Christ would suffer and rise again from the dead the third day,
47 and that repentance for forgiveness of sins would be proclaimed in His name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem.

Here are my questions to you:
Why did Jesus tell His disciples to proclaim to all the nations repentance for the FORGIVENESS of sins, if, by His death He paid the penalty for sins?

I have just shown from Strong's that forgiveness is the remission from the penalty of sin. Why repent for forgiveness when His death should have taken care of that?

The words Jesus spoke are pure truth; do you not think He knew what He was saying? Or, do you think man knows something He didn't? Does man know more about salvation than the Savior Himself?

Peter said Jesus has the words of life. Were the words Jesus spoke about life inadequate? Did He miss something?