Orthodoxy's impact on society here in the US

[handmaiden64]

Bare with me everyone, as I'm a fairly new convert and still have a very Western mindset on matters.

I don't understand why here in the US Orthodoxy does not have more of a presence in society with regard to primary/secondary schools, colleges, social service agencies and hospitals. My own priest said (and I agree with him) that the Protestants and Catholics put us Orthodox to shame with all of the educational, healthcare and outreach ministries they have that meet the needs of not just those in their own particular denomination.

I have heard a number of times that we Orthodox "take care of our own". If you are in a parish (such as has been my experience) where the majority of people have a postgraduate level education, are professionals and are fairly well off, it seems like everyone is just caught up in their lives - their career, vacationing, remodeling their homes, etc. (from conversations I've had at coffee hour). There seems to be no real concern for what is going on with others in the community. If there is an announcement in the church bulletin, it's only for "remembering the needy" by suggesting people to bring in a few nonperishable items for the local soup kitchen or food pantry. Now I am aware of FOCUS North America where this organization does do outreach in the community (for example, in Pittsburgh they have a health clinic, which I think is great!), but why aren't ministries like this the norm everywhere?

As well, I also don't understand why there isn't an emphasis for an Orthodox-based education of our children and youth beyond enrolling your child in Greek school. Everyone I know has their kids in public school and then these kids grow up to go to secular colleges and universities (because right now Holy Cross in MA is the only accredited Orthodox college in the US, to my knowledge). And is it any wonder why there is now a pan-Orthodox "Solve 60" campaign now to bring back 60% of youth who have left the Church. From my my former Catholic/Protestant background there is emphasis in not only wanting one's children to excel academically, but also to give them a solid grounding in their faith so that, if they chose to attend a secular college, there would be less likelihood of them not returning to the church as adults. And, a lot of people homeschool for this purpose.

Being new to the faith, I just don't understand (and it leaves me frustrated) why I'm not seeing Orthodoxy (the faith and the outworkings of the faith) making more of an impact in American society vs. our Western counterparts.

 

[~Anastasia~]

I wonder if this is an unfortunate holdover from a state-supported Orthodox Church?

Maybe those things were essentially taken care of for the people, so they haven't yet really started establishing them on their own in the US?

In Dallas, I know there is an Orthodox school. Our own parish is too small for such an effort.

And we do have community outreach - very loosely done. Part of it is "taking care of our own", part is helping those we can who come to us and ask, and the biggest part is throwing in with other established charities, which means that although we ARE helping, no one ever really knows it is the Orthodox who are doing so.

 

[ArmyMatt]

My Slavonic professor says this kinda stuff is from a lack of maturity on our part. Once we grow up more, we will have a greater impact

 

[gzt]

This is largely a numbers game. We probably have about the same number of hospitals, colleges, etc per capita given our history in America in relation to other Christian groups. There have been a few Orthodox stewardship organizations, mostly Greek but some others (again, that's a difference in size, historically 2/3 to 4/5 of Orthodox in America are Greek), that have been able to give substantially to hospitals and other such charities, but typically not quite enough numerically to run one - and these days hospitals are purely business even if non-profit. Now, if all the Orthodox in America moved into one or two states right next to each other, they might give the fifth largest denomination in those states a run for their money...

 

[E.C.]

Welcome to TAW!


The simple answer is that it would require us Orthodox in America to fall under the heresy of "organization". We'd have to actually get people together and put aside the ethnic differences and not fight over who is in charge. Even in the early 20th century the organization that was around before the Bolshevik Revolution was barely hanging on by a thread because of the same reason why we're disorganized now: putting our ethnic differences before the Church.


The second part comes from the lack of maturity that ArmyMatt mentioned. In the old world the State ran everything related to religion and education to some degree or another. People did not need the initiative to start schools, so when they got here they didn't know what to do. In my honest opinion, we would have a lot to learn from the Roman Catholic school system here and a lot to learn from the Mormons on organization.

 

[buzuxi02]

There are a number of Greek Orthodox parochial schools in NYC. But mostly because inner city schools aren't that good. Also the Orthodox based parochial schools themselves aren't exactly that great, they suffer from funding issues and such. Most only go to 8th grade. Even the Archbishop Iakovos High School part of St Demetrios in Jamaica day school is now defunct. Only leave St Demetrios in Astoria with pre-k to 12th grade school

The Archdiocesan School System — Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America
Orthodox School Directory

 

[truefiction1]

We have more of an impact than is suspected. We could do better, but should keep a clear view of what "better" really is. If we understand "better" to mean giving others the gift of the Gospel and Eternal Life, this goal is not beyond the reach of any single one of us, especially when we stick together in Christ.

Also, our secular occupations are often channels by which we serve our society without our realizing it. How many work in healthcare, or manufacturing, or providing valuable services which help to lay the groundwork for any decency that exists within our communities? How many of us use significant portions of our income to help others through charitable donations and such? How many of us give up our free time to serve the needs of the Church or of others in need? Do our efforts need to be connected officially through the Orthodox Church, or is the Orthodox Church us, whereas we are indeed having an impact within society by the way we live our lives?

 

[GregConstantine]

"We have more of an impact than is suspected."

Can you give examples? Because I sure don't see it. Being so close to the nation's capitol and NYC, I would think I would see some minimal impact from the Church. What I see is next to nil.

For example, I just recently met this guy from Seattle who is a convert to Roman Catholicism from Evangelicalism. I wondered, why didn't he convert to Orthodoxy? Did he know about it? Did he ever met anyone who was Orthodox? Being from Seattle, did he ever heard of All Merciful Savior monastery on Vashon Island? If not, why not?

As for FOCUS, what work they do is great, but overall, I'm personally not impressed with that organization. They refuse to do anything in Baltimore because the head person for FOCUS has some personal issue with the head person of IOCC (which is HQ'd in Baltimore, but that's another topic). So Baltimore gets no benefits from either IOCC or FOCUS because of this silly spat.

This is an example of what was discussed before about a almost pathological refusal to put aside petty differences, or even just to use successful methods that other's have found to be better organized and to do what work you are doing more efficiently.

I don't think it is just about numbers. Some protestant denominations are about the same size of us, or even smaller, but people know about them.

 

[E.C.]

I don't think it is just about numbers. Some protestant denominations are about the same size of us, or even smaller, but people know about them.

Ethnic ghettos are a large part to blame for this. Replace ethnic ghettos with actual parishes that interact with the community or neighborhood around them and, yes, people would get to know us.

I don't remember if I had this conversation with you and the roommate, but I remember talking with someone back east about Orthodox isolationism (it might have been with a priest in VA). One of the comments made in this chat was something to the effect of "we build our churches and then hide in them".

 

[truefiction1]

"We have more of an impact than is suspected."

Can you give examples? Because I sure don't see it. Being so close to the nation's capitol and NYC, I would think I would see some minimal impact from the Church. What I see is next to nil.

For example, I just recently met this guy from Seattle who is a convert to Roman Catholicism from Evangelicalism. I wondered, why didn't he convert to Orthodoxy? Did he know about it? Did he ever met anyone who was Orthodox? Being from Seattle, did he ever heard of All Merciful Savior monastery on Vashon Island? If not, why not?

As for FOCUS, what work they do is great, but overall, I'm personally not impressed with that organization. They refuse to do anything in Baltimore because the head person for FOCUS has some personal issue with the head person of IOCC (which is HQ'd in Baltimore, but that's another topic). So Baltimore gets no benefits from either IOCC or FOCUS because of this silly spat.

This is an example of what was discussed before about a almost pathological refusal to put aside petty differences, or even just to use successful methods that other's have found to be better organized and to do what work you are doing more efficiently.

I don't think it is just about numbers. Some protestant denominations are about the same size of us, or even smaller, but people know about them.

Why the focus on converting people to Orthodoxy if Orthodoxy is pathological?

Here is how it works: We convert ourselves into Christ by dying to ourselves, so that it is "no longer" us "who live, but Christ Who Lives in" us. Then, Christ Who is in us, sends the Holy Spirit out to gather the Father's elect unto Himself (us). There is simply no other Way. If Orthodoxy is not having such an impact, it is because Orthodox Christians do not struggle enough against the world, so that there are not enough saints in America.

 

[GregConstantine]

You are right that we don't struggle against the world enough, that is precisely why we see the "pathologies" that I mentioned.

However, I don't think what you said means we sit back and allow whatever happens around us happens. I doubt that is what you personally are saying, but trust me, quite a few of our Orthodox brethren do say such things.

 

[truefiction1]

You are right that we don't struggle against the world enough, that is precisely why we see the "pathologies" that I mentioned.

However, I don't think what you said means we sit back and allow whatever happens around us happens. I doubt that is what you personally are saying, but trust me, quite a few of our Orthodox brethren do say such things.

No, we certainly don't sit around, doing and saying nothing. Primarily, however, our struggle lies within ourselves, against our own passions and the unclean spirits stalking us. When we repent, pray without ceasing, attend all the Divine services that we can, and serve the Church and others in any small ways we can find, Many opportunities for greater service begin to open up to us, in mysterious ways. Temptations toward negativity also certainly come, as well as certain obstacles. It's important to remain positive and to continue to work as best we can.

This is what a small group of us are doing in our parish, which had been poisoned and on the verge of certain death, and a miraculous revitalization seems to be transpiring at present, with more and more Church members being called to Christ and reaching out to others in Truth, while being patient with those who are yet to be called, speaking the truth in Love insofar as they are capable.

We, here in our parish, are finding out that we can't be concerning ourselves with "quantity", when it is the "quality" of the faith of just two or more that allows God to build a Church (Matthew 18:19-20).

Again, wherever Christ is, He summons certain of the elect to Him by the Holy Spirit. These will have an impact, because Christ works in and through them to produce much good fruit in the world.