Orthodoxy & Comics: Is Paganism and the Old Ways being brought back via Comics?

Gxg (G²)

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A Jehova's Witness villain would be the greatest. Unpatriotic, hates birthdays, denies the Trinity, and somehow he finds out that he is not one of the 144,000 saved....goes rogue and wants revenge

I still think that Catholic would perhaps be the greatest villians...for the villian can often save the day. Was tripped out in scenes where I saw people like Venom praying, although it turns out that Venom (Eddie Brock) (from Spiderman) was himself a Catholic....and chose to remain as such despite his struggle.

Venom_origin_in_church.jpg

And within the world of comics (specifically Marvel), it turns out that Dracula was Romanian Orthodox...or at least, was. For during his captivity /struggle, Dracula renounced the Orthodox faith


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Epic...
 
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Gxg (G²)

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DC lost me after the 1st crisis (1985) and marvel after secret wars (1984). I read DC from 1950s to 1985 and marvel from 1961 to 1984.
.
Old School..

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Isn't Elektra, a lapsed Greek Orthodox christian? I see her as a sort of anti-hero in the vein of Namor.

Namor always had a BAD attitude, although Elektra I could show some grace to due to her backgrounds....even as an assassian for hire who was amazing. Elektra has never been depicted as a devout Greek Orthodox Christian or a regular churchgoer. This is not surprising given her profession as an assassin. But Elektra is a morally complex character.

The romance between her and DareDevil was amazing enough....

lens18153119_1310906865daredevil_frank_miller.jp

55065-5779-76521-1-elektra_super.jpg





I always enjoyed considering the struggles both of them had (Daredevil more so with his faith as a Catholic)---but with Elektra, I liked seeing how they showed in the comics that she had an Eastern Orthodox background and yet wasn't walking it out fully due to myriad of issues. There was one comic pic I was thankful for which showed a pic of an Icon her parents had in their home when she was growing up. Specifically, from the Daredevil series, we see an icon of (presumably) St Cyprian in the home of young Elektra Natchios (better known simply as Elektra) during a lengthy flashback sequence (as her parents were involved with organized crime at some point):



Orthodox%2BSightings%2B-%2BIcon%2Bin%2BElektra%27s%2BHome.JPG
 
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How about a lapsed Orthodox antihero who struggles with the desire to return to the Church but is haunted by some of the things he has done "for the greater good".
Would the Orthodox hero be willing to kill?
 
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inconsequential

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Easy G (G²);60227971 said:
Would the Orthodox hero be willing to kill?

That could be a great source of conflict for him. I work alone with access to large amounts of cash near a bad part of town. I carry a gun (legally) for protection and won't hesitate to use it if it becomes necessary. I'm not trigger happy and pray it never becomes necessary but if it did, I would be shooting to kill.

But then I'm a very poor example of an Orthodox Christian. Then again there is the story if St. Mercurius taking care of the emperor so it's possible. There are also devoutly Orthodox soldiers and cops so that would be something to think about.
 
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That could be a great source of conflict for him. I work alone with access to large amounts of cash near a bad part of town. I carry a gun (legally) for protection and won't hesitate to use it if it becomes necessary. I'm not trigger happy and pray it never becomes necessary but if it did, I would be shooting to kill.

But then I'm a very poor example of an Orthodox Christian. Then again there is the story if St. Mercurius taking care of the emperor so it's possible. There are also devoutly Orthodox soldiers and cops so that would be something to think about.
I think having someone from a soldier background where death was a reality--and they were conflicted about it (be it as a body guard, an assassian/enforcer, a member of a Special Operations groups or simply as a cop) is perhaps the greatest way to bring out conflict in a character that's worth following. For in many cases, having the options NOT to take life is not an option.

To have a comic book hero based on the story of St.Mercurius working for the emperor--and showing all of the things not "recorded" in history that the man did which may be questionable when it comes to violence....how wild would that be. To have a monk who is seeking to be peaceful and yet being forced to take life/ask forgiveness....never certain of where he stands as he goes on his own journey, would be a great way of conveying the struggle others have when it comes to learning how to follow the Lord.

In addition to someone such as St.Mercurius being an example to base a comic book story on, I'm reminded of Alexander Peresvet, also spelled Peresviet (Russian: Александр Пересвет), who was a Russian Orthodox Christian monk who fought in a single combat with the Tatar champion Temir-murza (known in most Russian sources as Chelubey or Cheli-bey) at the opening of the Battle of Kulikovo (8 September 1380), where they killed each other. He is believed to have hailed from the Bryansk area and took the monastic habit at the Rostov Monastery of Saints Boris and Gleb. Later he moved to the Monastery of Pereslavl-Zalessky under the service of Dmitri Donskoi. He later moved to the Trinity Abbey where he became a follower of Sergius of Radonezh...and at some point, Alexander and his friend Rodion Oslyabya joined Russian troops approaching to fight against Mamai invasion. As the battle of Kulikovo was opened by single combat between the two champions, the Russian champion was Alexander Peresvet and the Horde champion was Temir-murza. More can be found here on the matter.. and here at Icon of Saint Alexander Peresvet (Radonezhsky)

Aleksandr_Peresvet___big_7b6c4.jpg



Some of it seems similar to one story that was found within the scriptures:
Numbers 25:7-9/Numbers 25

6 Then an Israelite man brought into the camp a Midianite woman right before the eyes of Moses and the whole assembly of Israel while they were weeping at the entrance to the tent of meeting. 7 When Phinehas son of Eleazar, the son of Aaron, the priest, saw this, he left the assembly, took a spear in his hand 8 and followed the Israelite into the tent. He drove the spear into both of them, right through the Israelite man and into the woman’s stomach. Then the plague against the Israelites was stopped; 9 but those who died in the plague numbered 24,000.

10 The LORD said to Moses, 11 “Phinehas son of Eleazar, the son of Aaron, the priest, has turned my anger away from the Israelites. Since he was as zealous for my honor among them as I am, I did not put an end to them in my zeal. .

Phinehas was willing to kill if he felt it would glorify the Lord in His Holiness and advancing what he knew to be true of the Kingdom...and some of this is similar to what happened in Biblical history when there were others that were fighters seeking to defend what they felt was the faith. I'm reminded of the Zealots of scripture., as the Zealots had a different view of serving God that their sister group the Pharisees.

For the Zealots take on a differing light when realizing how many of them were devout priests who were willing to act on Violence whereas other priests/holy men avoided it...and the Zealots, although others may disagree with them, were men seeking to do what they felt was honorable.

More on the Zealots can be discussed here and here

As said best by one organization I've followed over the years:

After Herod's death, many of the Galilean supporters of Hezekiah attempted to create resistance against Herod's sons. This too was brutally put down. In AD 6,Judea was officially incorporated into the Roman Empire. A census was ordered, and Quirinius, governor of Syria, carried out the order so that the new province could be appropriately taxed. The priests in Jerusalem urged restraint and cooperation with the Romans; but Hezekia's son Judah of Gamla (the isolated mountaintop city northeast of the Sea of Galilee) urged violent resistance. A popular Pharisee named Zadok, also from Galilee, supported Judah. The Zealot movement was founded. The well-known Pharisee Gamliel recorded the early history of Judah and his movement. Judas the Galilean appeared in the days of the census and led a band of people in revolt. He too was killed, and all his followers were scattered (see Acts 5:37). He was probably killed by Herod Antipas, who also murdered John the Baptist (Matt. 14:1-12).

Both Judas and Zadok were devoted to the Torah as the only guide for righteous living before God. They based their zeal for God on the action of Phinehas, Aaron's son, recorded in Numbers 25:7-13. Phinehas is praised for his zeal, which imitated the zeal of God (Num. 25:11,13). The fact that Phinehas, a priest of God, used a spear became the basis for what Zealots considered a divine command to use violent action to defend God's name and destroy unfaithfulness to Torah among the Jewish people. This interpretation would lead to a long history of violent acts against Rome and brutal conflict between the Zealots and the Jews they believed cooperated with the pagan empire.


The philosophy of the Zealot movement was that there was only one God, and Israel was to serve him alone; the Torah and other writings of the Bible were the only guide to righteous living; and serving the emperor in any way, whether in worship, slavery, or paying taxes, was apostasy against God. Josephus, who knew the Zealots, described their passion for freedom as unconquerable because they would serve no one but God. Violent resistance was considered a God-ordained responsibility since they believed God was on their side, they knew that they would triumph in the end. This led to their reputation for incredible bravery and tolerance for suffering.

The Zealots lived by the strictest conformity to the Torah. In addition, they refused to acknowledge anyone as king, since "you shall have no other gods" (Ex. 20:3).

TTW-tran-3-15-bg.jpg
Zealots are truly amazing...and in reading the scriptures, I've found it interesting to see how not all things associated with them were counter to Christ. I'm reminded of others such as Simon the Zealot ( Luke 6:14-16 / Luke 6 / Matthew 10:3-5 / Matthew 10 /Mark 3:17-19 Mark 3 ), who was the "terrorist" of the apostolic group (and most likely a problem, especially when dealing with tax-collectors and understanding the History between them and the Zealots..already against government in a myriad of ways ).




simon+icon+2.jpg



He (Christ) had many diverse individuals apart of His inner circle---despite how BOTH sides had significant issue with the other, with Zealots wishing to overthrow Rome and feeling as if Tax-Collectors had "Sold out".


Considering the fact that Jesus opposed violent rebellion against Rome, many probably wondered why Jesus would choose such a fellow.....and adding to that is the irony in how Matthew was a tax collector. Tax collectors were very much in league with Rome. There were probably no two groups of Jews in Palestine who hated each other more than the tax collectors and the zealots. Yet, Jesus chose one of each. Most people probably would have been afraid that these two fellows would kill each other...but the Lord wasn’t. For he understood that the kingdom of God was more powerful than the hatred of men. And the very fact Jesus chose two men so opposite in their worldviews was a demonstration of its power.

And perhaps Christ chose Simon due to family relation--making the issue more close to home. For in the Gospels, some feel Simon the Zealot is identified with Simon the "brother" of Jesus mentioned in Gospel of Mark 6:3 :
Isn't this the carpenter? Isn't this Mary's son and the brother of James, Joseph, Judas and Simon? Aren't his sisters here with us? —
Some things to consider.... Simon was called a "Zealot" in his lifestyle before ministry with Jesus, probably a member of the Zealot party, which was a party determined to overthrow Roman Domination in Palestine. Interestingly enough, the "Zealot" term is still used for the man AFTER Christ rose from the Grave, Acts 1:12-14 Acts 1 .IMHO, it gives room to indicate that even after being in the midst of Jesus, that which he may have been known for was probably with him to one degree or another---such as still possibly wishing for Rome to be overthrown or having sympathies for those against Roman Oppression. When considering how the man died, there are many traditions. One tradition states that he traveled in the Middle East and Africa. Christian Ethiopians claim that he was crucified in Samaria, while Justus Lipsius writes that he was sawn in half at Suanir, Persia. However, Moses of Chorene writes that he was martyred at Weriosphora in Caucasian Iberia. Tradition also claims he died peacefully at Edessa. Another tradition says he visited Britain -- possibly Glastonbury -- and was martyred in Caistor, modern-day Lincolnshire.

Another interesting tradition, doubtless inspired by his title "the Zealot", states that he was involved in a Jewish revolt against the Romans, which was brutally suppressed in A.D 70. If the last tradition is true, it'd make his character interesting.





237653854.jpg

If knowing of the work by Robert Eisenman (Eisenman 1997 pp 33-4), he pointed out the contemporary talmudic references to Zealots as kanna'im "but not really as a group — rather as avenging priests in the Temple." For more info, one can look up the work entitled James the Brother of Jesus : The Key to Unlocking the Secrets of Early Christianity and the Dead Sea Scrolls. (Viking Penguin). But on Simon, when Jesus called him, nowhere is there sign that there was an immediate change over night..especially considering how often they argued amongst themselves...

If someone like Simon could still be considered as one with violent tendencies, why would it be impossible to have a superhero who is depicted the same----especially within Orthodoxy?


Going back to Orthodox members who were violent, IMHO, to see others within Orthodox history who were soldiers defending the faith is interesting to consider...:)
 
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Gxg (G²)

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I'm not trigger happy and pray it never becomes necessary but if it did, I would be shooting to kill.

But then I'm a very poor example of an Orthodox Christian. Then again there is the story if St. Mercurius taking care of the emperor so it's possible. There are also devoutly Orthodox soldiers and cops so that would be something to think about.

To my knowledge, there were quite of few monk saints who, when need arose, would exchange their monastic garb for that of a warrior..such as those who sought to save Holy Russia from the onslaught of apostates or pagans. These Christ-loving warriors considered it their duty to follow in the steps of the disciples of St. Sergius of Radonezh, who went to the Kulikovo battlefield and saved Russia.

Thus, to have an Orthodox hero/character who happens to be willing to use violent force is not something that I think would be wrong to consider. Perhaps having a hero who struggled with doing the wrong thing before and committing reckless murder when he was not a follower of the Lord--and showing him as being a monk/member of the faith and yet still willing (and struggling) to go back and use his fighting skills to defend the innocent....and always tempted to go too far at times.
 
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Actually, I was referring to St. Mercurius' killing of Julian the Apostate after St. Basil prayed that he (Julian) not return from the war. He disappeared from the icon then reappeared with blood on his spear.
Got ya. That specific story seemed to be a bit intense, in light of how Julian met his end. Some of it reminded me of what happened with with the Second Council of Ephesus in 449, where a large group of monks showed up to intimidate anyone who opposed the bishop of Alexandria. For if any bishop or priest on the other side tried to write an accurate account of the proceedings, a bunch of monks would take the pen out of his hands and break his fingers. And it was so violent and dangerous that the monks actually beat the patriarch of Constantinople to death. Called the Robber Council or the Gangster Synod, many have considered that as a part of Orthodox history when it comes to what ends others are willing to go to establish truth.


To have a hero based upon what occurred historically is a good way of looking into the past.
 
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inconsequential

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For a long time I've wanted to write a story about a monk who was a former SOG type and struggled with violent tendencies. He would get into a situation where he killed a man to save the life of a child, then get close to the family. Despite all his efforts, the child falls in with the wrong crowd and takes a bad path that leads to his dying in sin. When he questions God about he receives a vision, or maybe is told by a holy Elder, that God would have spared the child that fate as well as the man the monk killed, who would have repented and led others to Christ.

Yeah, I know. I never said it was a good story. :)
 
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I was referring to St. Mercurius' killing of Julian the Apostate after St. Basil prayed that he (Julian) not return from the war. He disappeared from the icon then reappeared with blood on his spear.

St.Mercurius should have a comic made after his life:)
 
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Gxg (G²)

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For a long time I've wanted to write a story about a monk who was a former SOG type and struggled with violent tendencies. He would get into a situation where he killed a man to save the life of a child, then get close to the family. Despite all his efforts, the child falls in with the wrong crowd and takes a bad path that leads to his dying in sin. When he questions God about he receives a vision, or maybe is told by a holy Elder, that God would have spared the child that fate as well as the man the monk killed, who would have repented and led others to Christ.

Yeah, I know. I never said it was a good story. :)
The story you mentioned seems a bit bitter....although bitterness in characters can cause others to relate. I wonder if the monk you mentioned for a story would continually be brooding
 
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ArmyMatt

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St.Mercurius should have a comic made after his life:)

St Alexander Nevsky or St David the Builder I think would make interesting ones, because they were both successful military leaders, so their lives would have a lot of the action you would expect in a comic or graphic novel.
 
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Gxg (G²)

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St Alexander Nevsky or St David the Builder I think would make interesting ones, because they were both successful military leaders, so their lives would have a lot of the action you would expect in a comic or graphic novel.
St.David the Builder (of the Georgian Apostolic Autocephalous Orthodox Church ) and St. Alexander Nevsky would be AMAZING---as they're both extraordinary individuals who did many wonderful things in building others up/seeing that the nations they lived in flourished amongst incredible enemies, be it the German/Sweedish invaders or the Seljuk Turks.. And the events that occurred in their lives are so epic....:)

Of cours, how much that action gets described in the action may be something others would need to wrestle on. If others have no issues showing blood or any level of gore (i.e. a cut off arm, stabbings, etc), then going full-steam into creating a novel on the lives of Orthodox soldiers/wrrior monks won't be a problem. Besides, as the scriptures are rather graphic, I don't see why it'd be wrong to have comics that are the same. Some of the scriptural stories that come to my mind about Warrior Monks like the St.David and St. Alexander are found in 2 Kings 11, in regards to how Jehoiada the priest protected the young king Joash from his evil grandmother--who killed off all her grand-children/children in order to rule the throne)---and started a coup d'état against the evil Queen after gathering forces/strength, eventually killing the evil queen and restoring the true heir to the throne ( 2 Kings 11:8 , 2 Chronicles 23:6 , etc)

2 Chronicles 23:6


1 In the seventh year Jehoiada showed his strength. He made a covenant with the commanders of units of a hundred: Azariah son of Jeroham, Ishmael son of Jehohanan, Azariah son of Obed, Maaseiah son of Adaiah, and Elishaphat son of Zicri. 2 They went throughout Judah and gathered the Levites and the heads of Israelite families from all the towns. When they came to Jerusalem, 3 the whole assembly made a covenant with the king at the temple of God.

Jehoiada said to them, “The king’s son shall reign, as the LORD promised concerning the descendants of David. 4 Now this is what you are to do: A third of you priests and Levites who are going on duty on the Sabbath are to keep watch at the doors, 5 a third of you at the royal palace and a third at the Foundation Gate, and all the other men are to be in the courtyards of the temple of the LORD. 6 No one is to enter the temple of the LORD except the priests and Levites on duty; they may enter because they are consecrated, but all the other men are to guard what the LORD has assigned to them.[a] 7 The Levites are to station themselves around the king, each man with his weapons in his hand. Anyone who enters the temple must be put to death. Stay close to the king wherever he goes.”

8 The Levites and all the men of Judah did just as Jehoiada the priest ordered. Each one took his men—those who were going on duty on the Sabbath and those who were going off duty—for Jehoiada the priest had not released any of the divisions. 9 Then he gave the commanders of units of a hundred the spears and the large and small shields that had belonged to King David and that were in the temple of God. 10 He stationed all the men, each with his weapon in his hand, around the king—near the altar and the temple, from the south side to the north side of the temple.

11 Jehoiada and his sons brought out the king’s son and put the crown on him; they presented him with a copy of the covenant and proclaimed him king. They anointed him and shouted, “Long live the king!”

12 When Athaliah heard the noise of the people running and cheering the king, she went to them at the temple of the LORD. 13 She looked, and there was the king, standing by his pillar at the entrance. The officers and the trumpeters were beside the king, and all the people of the land were rejoicing and blowing trumpets, and singers with musical instruments were leading the praises. Then Athaliah tore her robes and shouted, “Treason! Treason!”

14 Jehoiada the priest sent out the commanders of units of a hundred, who were in charge of the troops, and said to them: “Bring her out between the ranks[b] and put to the sword anyone who follows her.” For the priest had said, “Do not put her to death at the temple of the LORD.” 15 So they seized her as she reached the entrance of the Horse Gate on the palace grounds, and there they put her to death.

16 Jehoiada then made a covenant that he and the people and the king[c] would be the LORD’s people. 17 All the people went to the temple of Baal and tore it down. They smashed the altars and idols and killed Mattan the priest of Baal in front of the altars.

18 Then Jehoiada placed the oversight of the temple of the LORD in the hands of the priests, who were Levites, to whom David had made assignments in the temple, to present the burnt offerings of the LORD as written in the Law of Moses, with rejoicing and singing, as David had ordered. 19 He also stationed doorkeepers at the gates of the LORD’s temple so that no one who was in any way unclean might enter.

20 He took with him the commanders of hundreds, the nobles, the rulers of the people and all the people of the land and brought the king down from the temple of the LORD. They went into the palace through the Upper Gate and seated the king on the royal throne, 21 and all the people of the land rejoiced. And the city was quiet, because Athaliah had been slain with the sword.
 
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St Alexander Nevsky or St David the Builder I think would make interesting ones, because they were both successful military leaders, so their lives would have a lot of the action you would expect in a comic or graphic novel.
There'd probably be a level of creative license involved, as it concerns creating other characters that may not have been recorded in history--especially if seeking to create greater levels of conflict in the story for a wider audience, such as making others who may've been Orthodox Assassians or others who were also Orthodox and yet considering betraying Alexander or St.David....and even others who may've been Double-Agents/spies from other kingdoms, later convering to Orthodox belief sincerly when making friends with others on the Orthodox side/realizing that they could not betray new found loyalty or relationships.

Make it epic like StarWars...
 
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if you are gonna do something on a saint's life, I say let the saint's life speak for itself.
Within the saint's life, if making a graphic novel on it or a comic, most have dialouge involved that was not necessarily shown within the life of the saint since they have only phrases or certain teachings...but no records of everyday dialouge.

Of course, one can always do a one-shot comic strip where pictures are made of the saint in comic art and a story is described in the same traditional way as one would find on an Orthodox website. However, to make a comic series on it that's ongoing (just as they've done with other historical figures), there's a level of adding some things in.
 
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ArmyMatt

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Within the saint's life, if making a graphic novel on it or a comic, most have dialouge involved that was not necessarily shown within the life of the saint since they have only phrases or certain teachings...but no records of everyday dialouge.

Of course, one can always do a one-shot comic strip where pictures are made of the saint in comic art and a story is described in the same traditional way as one would find on an Orthodox website. However, to make a comic series on it that's ongoing (just as they've done with other historical figures), there's a level of adding some things in.

oh haha, I was just referring to making a saint's life "like Star Wars." sorry for misreading you
 
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I think the time has come for a really dastardly, evil Mormon character! Perhaps he has formed his own polygamous cult in the wilderness of Idaho and has discovered ADDITIONAL lost plates of Joseph Smith in some brush. These plates were not meant for our character, and, as a result, he becomes like a Red Skull character. He manipulates his 80 wives with mind control and creates a desert army of mutated Mormon zombie super soldiers. Just an idea I'm tinkering with.

His goal? To find the planet Kolob and conquer the earth with his missionaries....


Honestly, I'd probably not buy that paticular comic book...and the villian I'd have a hard time taking seriously.

Of course, if Mitt Romney becomes President, I expect that there may be more of a focus on Mormon villians or heros within comic stories than before. Hoping not
 
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Gxg (G²)

Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7)
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oh haha, I was just referring to making a saint's life "like Star Wars." sorry for misreading you
Got you..

My bad for not being as clear, as I wasn't trying to say that making a story about an Orthodox Saint meant one had to bring in things that were epic like in the Star Wars universe with aliens, Jedi and other things from Star Wars--no matter how much I love the series ..especially the Clone Wars and the "Shadows of the Empire" saga (epic as that was ):)



On the same token, if they managed to make a saga about an Orthodox Hero who lived in a time where aliens/sci-fi were present, that'd be a trip.
 
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