Orthodoxy & Comics: Is Paganism and the Old Ways being brought back via Comics?

Gxg (G²)

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yeah, and that outside normal space time is the space time we were created for......pretty intense.
Truthfully, it is because of that reality that I tend to enjoy heros as well as villians in comics who tend to have abilities relating to time travel and transcending the realms we live in. It just seems to make logical sense

And as said before, Kang the Conqueror will always be amongst the best....:)


 
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Gxg (G²)

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I stumbled across a Solomon Kane movie on Netflix. The "theology" was, of course, thoroughly Hollywooded but it did capture the dark, gritty atmosphere of Kane's world and adventures. R.E. Howard would like it, I think.
Interesting...
 
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ArmyMatt

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Gxg (G²);64042808 said:
Truthfully, it is because of that reality that I tend to enjoy heros as well as villians in comics who tend to have abilities relating to time travel and transcending the realms we live in. It just seems to make logical sense

And as said before, Kang the Conqueror will always be amongst the best....:)



Cable and X-Man are up there too.
 
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Gxg (G²)

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Cable and X-Man are up there too.
Why them? Aren't they the same person as well?

Bishop was always one of the coolest around as well....

 
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ArmyMatt

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Gxg (G²);64045146 said:
Why them? Aren't they the same person as well?

Bishop was always one of the coolest around as well....

no they aren't, X-man is an alternate future Cable clone who never had the virus that made him part machine. he also died in the same universe I think as Cable.
 
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Gxg (G²)

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no they aren't, X-man is an alternate future Cable clone who never had the virus that made him part machine. he also died in the same universe I think as Cable.
Having the comics myself where it explained the origin of X-Man (specifically in the Age of Apocalypse Saga), they didn't always note Nate Grey to be simply a Cable Clone - but rather Cable himself in an alternate future without the virus....and made genetically by Mister Sinister as opposed to how the original Cable was born via natural procreation between Scott and Jean.


Cable had a clone from the future - although his name was Stryfe...and he was evil.

 
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ArmyMatt

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Gxg (G²);64046110 said:
Having the comics myself where it explained the origin of X-Man (specifically in the Age of Apocalypse Saga), they didn't always note Nate Grey to be simply a Cable Clone - but rather Cable himself in an alternate future without the virus....and made genetically by Mister Sinister as opposed to how the original Cable was born via natural procreation between Scott and Jean.


Cable had a clone from the future - although his name was Stryfe...and he was evil.


my bad with that, it has been a while, but I am pretty sure that they at one point existed in the same timeline, therefore making them two different people
 
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Gxg (G²)

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my bad with that, it has been a while, but I am pretty sure that they at one point existed in the same timeline, therefore making them two different people
In the sense that they had two differing backgrounds, they were two different people - but even within existing in the same timeline at one point after Nate Grey/X-Man crossed over into the reality Cable was in, they were still the same in many respects.
 
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ArmyMatt

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Gxg (G²);64046750 said:
In the sense that they had two differing backgrounds, they were two different people - but even within existing in the same timeline at one point after Nate Grey/X-Man crossed over into the reality Cable was in, they were still the same in many respects.

I can see that
 
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Gxg (G²)

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I can see that
A lot of it gets kind of technical since Marvel Universe has done a lot of crazy things with time travel, alternate realities, the Nexus of Realities and the ways that new futures can be created while others from previous ones that are erased somehow remain.

DC does the same thing many times - as they did so with Superboy-Prime and many others - and they just recreated the entire series somehow with The New 52 where DC Comics re-established the concept of the Multiverse in 52 Vol 1 which details the creation of 52 realities in the wake of the events of Infinite Crisis (where Superman's alternate version of himself known as Superman-Prime http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Countdown_to_Final_Crisis_Vol_1_13 is corrupt and somehow messed up reality itself...leading to several other storylines already discussed earlier, including Red Hood/Jason Todd in his resurrection).

Sometimes, the way the comics describe it, I do wonder if Time Travel is truly possible...and if the future is either written or able to be altered at anytime (the difference between Fate and Chance).
 
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Gxg (G²);64048931 said:
A lot of it gets kind of technical since Marvel Universe has done a lot of crazy things with time travel, alternate realities, the Nexus of Realities and the ways that new futures can be created while others from previous ones that are erased somehow remain.

DC does the same thing many times - as they did so with Superboy-Prime and many others - and they just recreated the entire series somehow with The New 52 where DC Comics re-established the concept of the Multiverse in 52 Vol 1 which details the creation of 52 realities in the wake of the events of Infinite Crisis (where Superman's alternate version of himself known as Superman-Prime is corrupt and somehow messed up reality itself...leading to several other storylines already discussed earlier, including Red Hood/Jason Todd in his resurrection).

Sometimes, the way the comics describe it, I do wonder if Time Travel is truly possible...and if the future is either written or able to be altered at anytime (the difference between Fate and Chance).

yeah, and how many times has something from an alternate reality become canon, either through a graphic novel or a movie or something? although I think that time travel would only work like in Timeline by Michael Crichton (haha, in other words, it won't happen).
 
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Gxg (G²)

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yeah, and how many times has something from an alternate reality become canon, either through a graphic novel or a movie or something? although I think that time travel would only work like in Timeline by Michael Crichton (haha, in other words, it won't happen).
The ways that alternate realities become reality are truly bananas - and it's amazing how many times the comics shift to match what movies/film may do which may've never been cannon.

As it relates to Time Travel, although I loved Timeline by Michael Crichton (including the film as well), the concept of time travel is not something I think will not happen at some point. There've been other discussions on the dynamic before - if one recalls here:
In all seriousness, to me it seems that either time flows from eternity, becoming time as it encounters the creation or the moment we are in, the NOW, is the point where we, who are "inside" time, touch eternity. I doubt that makes any sense but my vocabulary is too limited to properly articulate what I mean.
according to Fr Hopko even in this world before the end, there is a relativity to how we experience time as well. if you go to a baseball game and you are behind home plate, you see the ball hit the bat right when you hear the crack. if you are way out in left field, you see the ball hit the bat, then you hear the crack a little later. the event happened at the same time, but is experienced at two different "times" because light travels faster than sound.

so time being experienced differently when we come before Christ is not so alien as we might think.
Gxg (G²);61450532 said:
I'd love to do the Marty McFly thing and observe what happened in the past with the potential to alter the future....and if the Lord allowed it, it'd be all good. However, as I do believe in the concept of predestination paradox ( a phenomenon in which an event of time travel can become part of events which have already occurred, and can even lead to the initial event of time travel in the first place..debatable as that is), I do believe that any attempt to change the past would actually serve to see that it happened as was meant.





IMHO, Time travel may be possible....as in the (LXX) book of Daniel...

I think where most often struggle is time travel to the past. The scriptures, in addition to Daniel, note where such as happened before with going to the future /seeing things play out...and even as it concerns time slowing down/instant transportation (as it was with Philip in Acts 8/Acts 8:37 after he was transported across a vast amount of distance to another location after seeing the Ethiopian Eunuch - something that should have taken days even though he got there quick as if no time was lost at all ).

I'm also reminded of Jesus and teleportation when they teleported 3 to 5 miles to the shore
John 6:19
"And when even was now come, his disciples went down unto the sea, and entered into a ship, and went over the sea toward Capernaum. And it was now dark, and Jesus was not come to them. And the sea arose by reason of a great wind that blew. So when they had rowed about five and 20 or 30 furlongs, they saw Jesus walking on the sea, and drawing nigh unto the ship: and they were afraid. But He saith unto them, It is I; be not afraid. Then they willingly received Him into the ship: and immediately the ship was at the land whither they went."
But to go back into the past and change things is another issue altogether.


But traveling across time is not impossible....


I'm reminded of the concept of Communion with the Saints - and what Christ lived out when it came to the issue of Moses and Elijah, as Matthew 17:2-4 and Mark 9:3-10 / Luke 9:29-34 come to my mind when Elijah and Moses appeared before Jesus.
Matthew 17:2-4 / Matthew 17

The Transfiguration

1 After six days Jesus took with him Peter, James and John the brother of James, and led them up a high mountain by themselves. 2 There he was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as the light. 3 Just then there appeared before them Moses and Elijah, talking with Jesus.


4 Peter said to Jesus, “Lord, it is good for us to be here. If you wish, I will put up three shelters—one for you, one for Moses and one for Elijah.”

5 While he was still speaking, a bright cloud covered them, and a voice from the cloud said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased. Listen to him!”

6 When the disciples heard this, they fell facedown to the ground, terrified. 7 But Jesus came and touched them. “Get up,” he said. “Don’t be afraid.”
Luke 9:28-39/Luke 9:32-34 Luke 9



The Transfiguration

28 About eight days after Jesus said this, he took Peter, John and James with him and went up onto a mountain to pray. 29 As he was praying, the appearance of his face changed, and his clothes became as bright as a flash of lightning. 30 Two men, Moses and Elijah, appeared in glorious splendor, talking with Jesus. 31 They spoke about his departure,[a] which he was about to bring to fulfillment at Jerusalem.32.

Interesting to see how Jesus was actively talking with Moses and Elijah who technically were not present in the temporal realm for centuries/thousands of years - and yet it seems that both were able to appear instantenously at the time Christ arrived at that point.

It's as if when Moses ceased to exist in the temporal realm, he went into Eternity - and then met with Elijah himself who experienced the same as Moses. In eternity, it'd seem they had just arrived even though centuries seperated them in their respective beginning and ending points and yet at the moment they met, they were brought to the future to meet personally with CHrist.

Technically, with Moses and Elijah, Elijah is a bit more distinct as a living time traveller - for with Moses himself, he experienced death (Deuteronomy 34:5/ Joshua 1:1-3 / Jude 1:8-10 ) -

However, things differed for Elijah - for he was known to often teleport/be taken by the Lord to differing locations ( Like Philip who was moved by God to his next point of ministry (I Kings 18:12, 46; II Kings 2:16 ) - and Elijah was known to have been taken up into Heaven in a fiery chariot (2Kings 2:11 ) ...and yet also was known to have written a letter as well after the event per 2Chronicles 21:12.

For more specifics, Elijah’s chariot ride in chapter two comes between the reigns of two kings of Israel. 2Kings 3:1 says that Jehoram, son of Ahab reigned in Ahaziah’s stead...and Ahaziah died of a disease not leaving a son, so his brother, Jehoram became the King of Israel (cp. 2Kings 1:15-18). The beginning of Jehoram’s 12 year reign coincided with the eighteenth year of the reign of Jehosaphat, king of Judah. This is important, because the kings of Judah and Israel were allies. Before going to war with Moab they consulted the prophets, but Judah and Israel were not united in their faiths. Only Judah worshiped the Lord. Therefore, Jehosaphat desired a word from a prophet of the LORD before going to war, and in this case we are told the great prophet was Elisha (2Kings 3:11). Therefore, the time of this Scripture is definitely after Elijah ascended to heaven in a fiery chariot (2Kings 2:11). For many, the view is that it was either the case that Elijah came to give a word to the King AFTER he had died----verifying the concept of the departed giving messages at God's approval alone---or Elijah never went to Heaven before having to actually die first (more shared in Is it True Elijah Went to Heaven? « Smoodock's Blog).

One can find more in 2 Chronicles 21:1..as Jehoram, the son of Jehosaphat, reigned in Jerusalem in the stead of his father. Jehosaphat was dead, but Elisha was the prophet of the Lord that Jehosaphat had consulted concerning the war with Moab. Thus, by this time in 2Chronicles 21, Elijah had already taken his chariot ride into the heavens which had to have occurred before Jehosaphat’s death.

Additionally, Jehoram the son of Ahab referred to in 2Kings 3:1 with whom Jehosaphat was allied is not the same Jehoram mentioned here in 2Chronicles 21:1. This Jehoram was king of Judah and son of Jehosaphat. He did not walk in the ways of his father but in the ways of the kings of Israel, for he had married Ahab’s daughter and led Judah astray (2Chronicles 21:4-6). When considering that context, again, it is interesting to note how 2Chronicles 21:12 shows that Elijah wrote a letter to Jehoram, the king of Judah, rebuking him for walking in the way of the kings of Israel.
2 Chronicles 21:4-12
Jehoram had forsaken the LORD, the God of his ancestors. 11 He had also built high places on the hills of Judah and had caused the people of Jerusalem to prostitute themselves and had led Judah astray. 12 Jehoram received a letter from Elijah the prophet, which said: “This is what the LORD, the God of your father David, says: ‘You have not followed the ways of your father Jehoshaphat or of Asa king of Judah.

When realizing that Elijah’s chariot ride in II Kings 2 took place while Jehosaphat was still alive, one must wonder how could he write a letter after Jehosaphat’s death, if he was in heaven where God is. One would be logical to conclude that Elijah was still alive/earthbound....and at least opens up the door for supposing that it isn't necessarily the case that Elijah himself never died at a later date. As a man, his ministry as God’s main prophet was about done except for this letter to the king of Judah, Elijah’s ministry ended with the fiery chariot ride up to the clouds and Elisha being the front man

But regardless of the paticulars, the dynamic of going back into the temporal realm seem rather apparent (IMHO) when it comes to the dynamic present in scripture - and thus, time travel is something that'll always stand out. And with Moses and Elijah, it does make you think.


In Eternity, all things have already happened - and so technically, from the perspective of the Lord, CHrist was ALREADY crucified since his sacrifice was done BEFORE the creation of the world .......and yet in the times Christ was living in, it had not been experienced yet - and for Moses and Elijah in Eternity, they still had to go meet Christ in the temporal realm.



There was actually an article I came across (seen here in this article ) about a scientist that says time does not exist. This clicked with something I remembered studying about God and the saints existing outside of time, God being everywhere present always at once. ...and when the world ends there will be no time, or that after we pass away we exist outside of time.
 
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Gxg (G²)

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The best treatment I've seen of time "travel" is Gregory Benford's novel Timescape. It's the closest I've read to hard scifi on the subject.
How old is the novel and why did you enjoy it? Moreover, why was the treatment the best in your view?
 
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inconsequential

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It was published in 1980, I believe and I felt it was best because it was closer to hard scifi than any other stories I've read. I mean aiming a tachyon beam at the earth's 1963 astronomical coordinates in order to disrupt a nuclear experiment in 1963 and embedding a message in the disruption?
 
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It was published in 1980, I believe and I felt it was best because it was closer to hard scifi than any other stories I've read. I mean aiming a tachyon beam at the earth's 1963 astronomical coordinates in order to disrupt a nuclear experiment in 1963 and embedding a message in the disruption?
Was a graphic novel ever made on it?
 
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Gxg (G²);64050473 said:
Was a graphic novel ever made on it?

I doubt it, it was pretty dull in the action/adventure department. But they do try to think 4th dimensionally. Every time I watch Back To The Future, I want to scream, "No, Doc Brown, YOU are not thinking 4th dimensionally!!! When the Delorean reappears, it will be in 1955, floating through space, where the Earth will be in 1985." :p
 
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Gxg (G²)

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I doubt it, it was pretty dull in the action/adventure department. But they do try to think 4th dimensionally. Every time I watch Back To The Future, I want to scream, "No, Doc Brown, YOU are not thinking 4th dimensionally!!! When the Delorean reappears, it will be in 1955, floating through space, where the Earth will be in 1985." :p


"4th dimensionally" - goodness that phrase is so epic, yet if played out, perhaps the Doc and Marty would've been messed up. Never considered that the Earth does shift orbit and that it's not just a matter of where you are on the ground when you go back in time - but where you are in relation to the entire solar system.

But then again, who knows...some things could've been altered as well that were not explained in-depth.
 
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Gxg (G²)

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I don't think Christians should take an unequivocally hostile attitude to paganism or pagan themes, not all Christians historically have done so.
I agree. Being one who is an anime art style fan, I have long enjoyed differing T.V shows (i.e.Dragon Ball Z with its unique focus on martial arts fighting/the concepts of chi, Tenchi Muyo with the way that the spiritual world and science interconnect, Ronin Warriors with its focus on the spiritual realm having rules/systems just as with the physical world ....and many other shows besides that).

Currently, my favorite anime series is "Avatar: The Legend of Korra" (referenced earlier/here in #15 ) - as it's amazing to see the animation as well as the focus on spiritual themes that have much basis in Eastern thought. The series is based on "Avatar: The Last Airbender" which wrapped in 2008 with a spectacular four-part conclusion...while The Legend of Korra, following the adventures of the next “avatar” in an Eastern-flavored fantasy world, took it even further. Aang, the preteen hero of The Last Airbender had to master all four elements (as regular folks can “bend” only one element apiece) to save the world dominated by the Fire Nation - while his successor Korra has far more time and more-peaceful lands, but still problems. Korra’s second “book” or season began last moth and the series appears to be continuing its success of weaving great people, efficient plotting, and beautiful visuals with in-depth themes of technology vs. spirituality, and family conflicts and forgiveness. The focus on the latest season is entitled "Spirits" - and I've greatly enjoyed it thus far.. in where it's trying to go:



Indeed, the Avatarverse is definitely Eastern culture- and religion-flavored, with one titular mediation office-by-reincarnation and plenty of spirits, plus a natural-law magic system. Yet the worldview is of good versus evil, growth, and sin, repentance, and forgiveness.

And although some advocate that Christians shouldn't watch shows that are not explicitly Christian, I do think that it's really about what one can either get out of it from a philosophy perspective is in the same way that one can read literature from non-Christian sources that still has real concepts that harmonize with the Bible (more discussed on the matter here). The Spirit aspect of the show doesn't really perplex me that much when considering Eastern culture and even concepts taught within Eastern Christianity - one can go here, here, here, here, here, here, here , here and here, where Thekla and I were involved in a rather detailed discussion on the subject of Christians on Earth and in Heaven - and their interaction with the world around us.
 
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For anyone interested...

Was recently doing comic style-art currently (after prayer/feeling inspired by the Lord to do a piece after having not drawn for years and getting back into it) - and although I'm almost done with what I felt inspired to draw for Christ and Christmas, I came across this ..and all things considered, truly one of the most epic "What If?" battles when thinking on Christ the King being born to die......and how NO other gods can punk him if they wanted to.

For the image really spoke to me on how no other beings labeled "gods" in other cultures could ever dare to challenge Christ - and it reminded me of what was noted in scripture where St. Paul said "having stripped the principalities and the powers, he made a show of them.."(Colossians 2:15 ).

On the cross Christ demonstrated His Superiority to all other religions/their respective "heroes" or beings they worship - and as He was willing to die for the world, only HE has the power and right to rule it.



There were others besides this which I was able to find on Jesus in Comic Style art - but as seen here

 
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