Orthodoxinfo.com

[Tallguy88]

Is this a good site for Orthodoxy? Some things on there make me wonder...

 

[Shieldmaiden4Christ]

Is this a good site for Orthodoxy? Some things on there make me wonder...

I think we might need a sticky for websites with reliable information, and those without reliable information. I typically stick to getting my information from diocesan websites.

 

[gzt]

I recommend against it because it's a double-edged sword. It has a lot of good information, but it also has a lot of information from people most of use would call "schismatics". Sometimes they present only one side of a many-sided conversation and it's a minority position at that. It's especially dangerous with people who have not had much context in Orthodoxy, who believe everything they read, or who are naturally attracted to what seems like the most rigorous line - as if rigor were always an indication of truth.

But there's also a lot of good stuff in there!

 

[Protoevangel]

I recommend against it because it's a double-edged sword. It has a lot of good information, but it also has a lot of information from people most of use would call "schismatics". Sometimes they present only one side of a many-sided conversation and it's a minority position at that. It's especially dangerous with people who have not had much context in Orthodoxy, who believe everything they read, or who are naturally attracted to what seems like the most rigorous line - as if rigor were always an indication of truth.

But there's also a lot of good stuff in there!

^What he said.

 

[Tallguy88]

It seemed a little extreme in some of its views.

What do y'all think of this article?

http://orthodoxinfo.com/inquirers/non-orthodox_ch5.pdf

If I'm reading it right, it says that I'm not really baptized, even though I was baptized by immersion in the trinitarian formula. That even if my priest receives me by chrismation only, that my original baptism was only good as to form, but not grace.

Is that what the article is saying? Is that the consensus of orthodoxy?

 

[snowpumpkin]

This is my favorite article on that site. It just gives you the warm fuzzies.

Young Children in the Orthodox Church

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

It seemed a little extreme in some of its views.

What do y'all think of this article?

http://orthodoxinfo.com/inquirers/non-orthodox_ch5.pdf

If I'm reading it right, it says that I'm not really baptized, even though I was baptized by immersion in the trinitarian formula. That even if my priest receives me by chrismation only, that my original baptism was only good as to form, but not grace.

Is that what the article is saying? Is that the consensus of orthodoxy?

If you had a Trinitarian baptism you are good. You would only need chrismation...

 

[Tallguy88]

This is my favorite article on that site. It just gives you the warm fuzzies.

Young Children in the Orthodox Church

From the article:

"Girls, no matter what age, should NEVER wear pants to Church (or anywhere else, for that matter). It is easy to fall to the mistaken idea that toddlers should be exempt from such a rule. Yes, they are cute and they crawl around on the floor but little girls are not puppies. They will grow up to be women, hopefully women worthy of praise and emulation. It is much better to train a child correctly from a very young age than to impose something suddenly at an arbitrary stage of maturity. The very fact that it is arbitrary and based on personal opinion rather than any teaching of the Church will create feelings of rebellion in the child for which you may have difficulty finding an adequate response. In any case, if your concern is primarily that the weather is cold, have the child wear leggings or tights under her dress."

I think this line "The very fact that it is arbitrary and based on personal opinion rather than any teaching of the Church" can be a pretty good response to most of that article.

 

[ArmyMatt]

yeah, that site is a bit polemical. I would avoid it early on, although it does have some good stuff on there.

 

[jckstraw72]

even if you are received by Chrismation that is not an acknowledgement of grace in your former baptism -- it is reception by economia -- the Orthodox Christmation fills in the grace that was lacking in your previous baptism. if there were sacraments outside the Church then why would you need to join the Church?

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

My priest believes that the Catholics have sacraments. Do we become Orthodox ONLY for sacraments or do we do so to have the awesome Sacraments AND the fullness of right teaching (the definition of Orthodoxy itself)? Don't we become Orthodox to know truth from heresy, to be on the right path, to have valid clergy that are inspired by 2,000 years of tradition in a safe place as well as the Sacramental life?

even if you are received by Chrismation that is not an acknowledgement of grace in your former baptism -- it is reception by economia -- the Orthodox Christmation fills in the grace that was lacking in your previous baptism. if there were sacraments outside the Church then why would you need to join the Church?

 

[Tallguy88]

even if you are received by Chrismation that is not an acknowledgement of grace in your former baptism -- it is reception by economia -- the Orthodox Christmation fills in the grace that was lacking in your previous baptism. if there were sacraments outside the Church then why would you need to join the Church?

So I'm not really baptized in your view?

 

[jckstraw72]

does it really matter what my view is?

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Tall, you are baptized. Most Orthodox priests are not going to tell you that was an empty, worthless ritual you went through as a baby. They'll most likely want to chrismate you. That's what we did, and that's what the vast majority do. Don't let minority opinions get you down. The internet is a jungle, dude! Some of the stuff I read on the internet freaked me OUT about Orthodoxy and even since becoming one sometimes the internet has been the major source of my feelings of despair, frustration, or depression. People online are a lot more given to minority fringe opinions and brimstone than your local parish clergy or bishop....

So I'm not really baptized in your view?

 

[jckstraw72]

are you sure you're giving a Patristically-supported answer?

 

[Tallguy88]

does it really matter what my view is?

That pretty well answers my question.

But my real concern is whether that is the Orthodox belief, or just the opinion of certain Orthodox believers.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Are you sure, jack? Do you know any Fathers who lived from the second century to the 21st who can address this issue with Catholics in schism from Orthodoxy and the weird situation we're in? And are you, and I say this respectfully, more qualified than my priest and thousands of others who chrismate rather than re-baptize to make this determination and advise this poster?

are you sure you're giving a Patristically-supported answer?

 

[jckstraw72]

are you sure that to receive by Chrismation means that we are recognizing non-Orthodox sacraments as true Sacraments? is that really what's going on? if Catholics, and maybe others, have true sacraments, then why are they also received by baptism in many instances?

 

[Tallguy88]

Tall, you are baptized. Most Orthodox priests are not going to tell you that was an empty, worthless ritual you went through as a baby. They'll most likely want to chrismate you. That's what we did, and that's what the vast majority do. Don't let minority opinions get you down. The internet is a jungle, dude! Some of the stuff I read on the internet freaked me OUT about Orthodoxy and even since becoming one sometimes the internet has been the major source of my feelings of despair, frustration, or depression. People online are a lot more given to minority fringe opinions and brimstone than your local parish clergy or bishop....

For the record, I wasn't baptized as a baby. I was 15 and it was by a Pentecostal preacher in a creek.

I know that I am really baptized. I don't have to square that with anyone save one, and He doesn't post online!

And Matushka said that if I was already baptized, I wouldn't have to be rebaptized. I'll ask my priest about this, and about toll houses, and all the other things that don't jive.

 

[Tallguy88]

are you sure that to receive by Chrismation means that we are recognizing non-Orthodox sacraments as true Sacraments? is that really what's going on? if Catholics, and maybe others, have true sacraments, then why are they also received by baptism in many instances?

If the Baptism wasn't valid, then why not just rebaptize? Why charismate with the implication that it "fixes" an invalid baptism?