origins of the remnant

[Interplanner]

One of the assignments I had while learning Greek was to know the Greek version of 'for unto us a child is born' and 'a virgin will be with child' etc. This led to section-wide study of these chapters of Isaiah.

10:20+ is one of the first places where the future remnant restoration is mentioned. We needed to know it because it says that the remnant of Jacob would return to the Mighty God. Mighty God? Wasn't that one of the of 7 names back in 9:6? Indeed.

V22 then said that even though the number of ethnic Israel would be like the sand of the sea (an expression like those given to Abraham), only a remnant will return. To the land? No, to God. Thus began the importance of faith vs. genetics, ancestry, ethnos in the OT.

But as the instructor showed, it was even more 'departing' from the land and people than that. The famous passage of 9:1+ was about the people who would have faith, as is quoted in Mt 4:14. The despised, mixed up area of the Galilee stood to be blessed by the light of Messiah. Anyone living in the shadow of death, who would turn to "the Mighty God."

There is more. In 8 is a section quoted by the NT, by Christ himself, to show the 'sorting point' between the ethnos Israel and the believers, v14. It's Christ the temple, and Christ the stumbling stone. The believers are those sitting with Christ who says "Here am I, and the children the Lord has given me...signs and symbols in Israel..." as Heb 2:13 handles it.

The remnant is thus introduced: it is people who have faith in God's victory in Messiah over the shadow of death, Jew or Gentile, and only a fraction of Israel believes. The return he is concerned about is to God, not the land.

 

[Biblewriter]

One of the assignments I had while learning Greek was to know the Greek version of 'for unto us a child is born' and 'a virgin will be with child' etc. This led to section-wide study of these chapters of Isaiah.

10:20+ is one of the first places where the future remnant restoration is mentioned. We needed to know it because it says that the remnant of Jacob would return to the Mighty God. Mighty God? Wasn't that one of the of 7 names back in 9:6? Indeed.

V22 then said that even though the number of ethnic Israel would be like the sand of the sea (an expression like those given to Abraham), only a remnant will return. To the land? No, to God. Thus began the importance of faith vs. genetics, ancestry, ethnos in the OT.

But as the instructor showed, it was even more 'departing' from the land and people than that. The famous passage of 9:1+ was about the people who would have faith, as is quoted in Mt 4:14. The despised, mixed up area of the Galilee stood to be blessed by the light of Messiah. Anyone living in the shadow of death, who would turn to "the Mighty God."

There is more. In 8 is a section quoted by the NT, by Christ himself, to show the 'sorting point' between the ethnos Israel and the believers, v14. It's Christ the temple, and Christ the stumbling stone. The believers are those sitting with Christ who says "Here am I, and the children the Lord has given me...signs and symbols in Israel..." as Heb 2:13 handles it.

The remnant is thus introduced: it is people who have faith in God's victory in Messiah over the shadow of death, Jew or Gentile, and only a fraction of Israel believes. The return he is concerned about is to God, not the land.

As usual, by paying attention to only a few verses here and there, you have missed the entire point of this chapter.

In verses 5-6 we read, "Woe to Assyria, the rod of My anger And the staff in whose hand is My indignation. I will send him against an ungodly nation, And against the people of My wrath I will give him charge, To seize the spoil, to take the prey, And to tread them down like the mire of the streets."

This has been almost universally missed, because the "scholars" have assumed it was just speaking of Sennacherib's attack upon Hezekiah. But we are explicitly told that Hezekiah was the most godly king Judah ever had, and that the Lord gave the people one heart to follow the king in following the Lord. So When Sennacherib attacked, he was attaacjing a godly nation, not an ungodly one.

Then we read in verse 12 that "when the LORD has performed all His work on Mount Zion and on Jerusalem, that He will say, "I will punish the fruit of the arrogant heart of the king of Assyria, and the glory of his haughty looks." Even preterists have to admit that Lord's work on Mount Zion and on Jerusalem was most certainly not completed in Sennacherib's day.

The day when the Assyrian is punished is the day spoken of in verses 21-23:

"And it shall come to pass in that day That the remnant of Israel, And such as have escaped of the house of Jacob, Will never again depend on him who defeated them, But will depend on the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, in truth. The remnant will return, the remnant of Jacob, To the Mighty God. For though your people, O Israel, be as the sand of the sea, A remnant of them will return; The destruction decreed shall overflow with righteousness. For the Lord GOD of hosts Will make a determined end In the midst of all the land."

This is highlighted by the next four verses:


"'Therefore thus says the Lord GOD of hosts: "O My people, who dwell in Zion, do not be afraid of the Assyrian. He shall strike you with a rod and lift up his staff against you, in the manner of Egypt. For yet a very little while and the indignation will cease, as will My anger in their destruction.'
And the LORD of hosts will stir up a scourge for him like the slaughter of Midian at the rock of Oreb; as His rod was on the sea, so will He lift it up in the manner of Egypt. It shall come to pass in that day That his burden will be taken away from your shoulder, And his yoke from your neck, And the yoke will be destroyed because of the anointing oil." (Isaiah 10:24-27)

Then we have the details of the Assyrian's advance upon Jerusalem:

"He has come to Aiath, He has passed Migron; At Michmash he has attended to his equipment. They have gone along the ridge, They have taken up lodging at Geba. Ramah is afraid, Gibeah of Saul has fled. Lift up your voice, O daughter of Gallim! Cause it to be heard as far as Laish-- O poor Anathoth! Madmenah has fled, The inhabitants of Gebim seek refuge. As yet he will remain at Nob that day; He will shake his fist at the mount of the daughter of Zion, The hill of Jerusalem." (Isaiah 10:28-32)

There are few facts of ancient history as absolutely known as the campaign of Sennacherib against Hezekiah. We do not only have the scriptures, which clearly tell us that Sennacherib never came to Jerusalem. We also have five monuments erected by Sennacherib himself, each of which describes the campaign in high detail. Thus, we are not dependent on medieval copies of ancient documents, we have that actual documents themselves. And there can be zero question that the path described in Isaiah 10:28-32 is not the path followed by Sennacherib.


Again, we read in Micah 5, "When the Assyrian comes into our land, And when he treads in our palaces, Then we will raise against him Seven shepherds and eight princely men. They shall waste with the sword the land of Assyria, And the land of Nimrod at its entrances; Thus He shall deliver us from the Assyrian, When he comes into our land And when he treads within our borders. Then the remnant of Jacob Shall be in the midst of many peoples, Like dew from the LORD, Like showers on the grass, That tarry for no man Nor wait for the sons of men. And the remnant of Jacob Shall be among the Gentiles, In the midst of many peoples, Like a lion among the beasts of the forest, Like a young lion among flocks of sheep, Who, if he passes through, Both treads down and tears in pieces, And none can deliver." (Micah 5:5-8)

this parallel passage again speaks of an invasion by "the Assyrian," and of a counter-invasion of Assyria by Israel. This unquestionably has never happened, foe Israel never invaded Assyria.

So we have two separate scriptures, both of which speak of a future attack by someone that call "the Assyrian," and of a subsequent restoration of Israel.

The fact that this restoration is to take place in their own land is demonstrated by Isaiah 10:23-24, where we read, "the Lord GOD of hosts Will make a determined end In the midst of all the land. Therefore thus says the Lord GOD of hosts: "O My people, who dwell in Zion, do not be afraid of the Assyrian..." (Isaiah 10:23-24)

Paying attention to what the Bible actually says is far more powerful that theorizing about what it is about.



T

 

[ebedmelech]

Biblewriter, you assume a lot too! Isaiah 1:1 tells us exactly what he is doing in this prophecy:
The vision of Isaiah the son of Amoz concerning Judah and Jerusalem, which he saw during the reigns of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz and Hezekiah, kings of Judah.

The prophecy concerns "Judah and Jerusalem"...so much of Isaiah is fulfilled already! Of course there are portions that prophesy the future.

When it comes to Isaiah 10 Assyria is the "rod of God's anger" and what Assyria did has already happened...NONE REMAINS.

 

[Biblewriter]

Biblewriter, you assume a lot too! Isaiah 1:1 tells us exactly what he is doing in this prophecy:
The vision of Isaiah the son of Amoz concerning Judah and Jerusalem, which he saw during the reigns of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz and Hezekiah, kings of Judah.

The prophecy concerns "Judah and Jerusalem"...so much of Isaiah is fulfilled already! Of course there are portions that prophesy the future.

When it comes to Isaiah 10 Assyria is the "rod of God's anger" and what Assyria did has already happened...NONE REMAINS.

You are entirely correct that this prophecy is about "Judah and Jerusalem." But I demonstrated in detail that this chapter has not been fulfilled. It is pure nonsense to simply claim it has been fulfilled in the face of such overwhelming proof.

If you imagine it has been fulfilled, then answer the proofs I gave, don't just pretend that it has been fulfilled.

 

[ebedmelech]

You are entirely correct that this prophecy is about "Judah and Jerusalem." But I demonstrated in detail that this chapter has not been fulfilled. It is pure nonsense to simply claim it has been fulfilled in the face of such overwhelming proof.

If you imagine it has been fulfilled, then answer the proofs I gave, don't just pretend that it has been fulfilled.

No you didn't. These are fulfilled as Assyria disperses Israel, and assaults Jerusalem. You see it says it CONCERNS Judah and Jerusalem...meaning it was TO THEM for the most part!

Assyria swept though the whole region! That's not just according to scripture, that's secular history too! Now what you do is ignore 2 Kings 15 through 20...and 2 Chronicles 28 through 32. That's choosing to your theology over scripture. Pretty much because you proved nothing and explained away a lot.

So I will post a contrast to show that..as you asked.

 

[Biblewriter]

No you didn't. These are fulfilled as Assyria disperses Israel, and assaults Jerusalem. You see it says it CONCERNS Judah and Jerusalem...meaning it was TO THEM for the most part!

Assyria swept though the whole region! That's not just according to scripture, that's secular history too! Now what you do is ignore 2 Kings 15 through 20...and 2 Chronicles 28 through 32. That's choosing to your theology over scripture. Pretty much because you proved nothing and explained away a lot.

So I will post a contrast to show that..as you asked.

You are the one who is "choosing to your theology over scripture." It simply does not work to simply deny that I proved anything. Your answer shows that you simply answered emotionally, evidently without even bothering to read the proof I posted. Such pat answers as you have given will not stand up to scripture.

Yes Sennacherib overwhelmed the land. But he did not fulfill most of the details in this prophecy.

 

[ebedmelech]

This all comes down to doing scripture line upon line. When you do that, you KNOW Isaiah 10 was fulfilled. You don't need "scholars" to figure this out.

It also comes down to which *scholars* you listen to, because there are scholars of all camps of thought.

In Isaiah 10 God says through Isaiah at 10:5, 6:
5 Woe to Assyria, the rod of My anger And the staff in whose hands is My indignation,
6 I send it against a godless nation And commission it against the people of My fury To capture booty and to seize plunder, And to trample them down like mud in the streets.

We know that the "Assyrian campaign" is under various Kings of Assyria as God used them to judge Israel and Judah. It ends with Hezekiah. So no, Hezekiah is not what Isaiah 10 is discussing, and I don't think one can assume it's Hezekiah because no kings are named!

What must be done is one has to look to the evidence as Isaiah is prophesying through the reins of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz and Hezekiah, who are kings of Judah. These are kings Isaiah prophesied to. So definitely this is the time frame of the prophesy as God is angry with both Israel and Judah.

God carries this out and all one need do is read 2 Kings chapters 15-23 and 2 Chronicles chapters 28-32. You will see Assyria takes the entire region from Damascus to Egypt and God intervenes when Assyria come to Jerusalem during Hezekiah’s reign, and that ends Assyria’s dominance of the region.

This is an Assyrian campaign that is under these Assyrian kings:

*Pul

*Tiglath-pileser

*Shalmaneser

*Sargon

*Sennacherib

When it comes to these prophecies the bible doesn’t name every place a prophet may name when it comes to the fulfillment. This would send one to look at the course of things. Assyria takes the whole region. There is NO WAY Isaiah 10 is not fulfilled.

Isaiah is also NOT a chronological prophecy it goes back and forth in prophecy. However other passages that make clear Assyria took the region as God’s instrument of judgment:
Isaiah 7:17-23 but for brevity, I quote Isaiah 7:17:
17 The Lord will bring on you, on your people, and on your father’s house such days as have never come since the day that Ephraim separated from Judah, the king of Assyria.”

Isaiah 8:4:
4 for before the boy knows how to cry out ‘My father’ or ‘My mother,’ the wealth of Damascus and the spoil of Samaria will be carried away before the king of Assyria.”

Isaiah 8:7:
7 “Now therefore, behold, the Lord is about to bring on them the strong and abundant waters of the Euphrates, Even the king of Assyria and all his glory; And it will rise up over all its channels and go over all its banks.

*Notice the poetic language saying Asyrria will "will rise up over all its channels and go over all its banks"...this means they will take the WHOLE REGION!!!

Isaiah 20:1
In the year that the commander came to Ashdod, when Sargon the king of Assyria sent him and he fought against Ashdod and captured it,

Isaiah 20:4:
so the king of Assyria will lead away the captives of Egypt and the exiles of Cush, young and old, naked and barefoot with buttocks uncovered, to the shame of Egypt.

Isaiah 20:6
6 So the inhabitants of this coastland will say in that day, ‘Behold, such is our hope, where we fled for help to be delivered from the king of Assyria; and we, how shall we escape?’”

In Isaiah 36 we have Sennacherib coming to assault Jerusalem. It is at this point that God is about to be done using Assyria as judgment and He will judge Assyria by Babylon!!

Assyria was used of God to judge Israel and Judah and they fulfilled Isaiah 10. Use of good bible maps will prove this point as well as good study of the prophets. Hosea, Ezekiel, and Micah refer to Assyria’s domination of the entire region.

The prophecy of Isaiah 10 was completely fulfilled concerning what Assyria would do to the entire region, and it was done according to God’s will. None remains to be fulfilled.

The fact is the preponderance of the evidence shows that Assyria took the whole region. It begins in 2 Kings 15:19:
19 Pul, king of Assyria, came against the land, and Menahem gave Pul a thousand talents of silver so that his hand might be with him to strengthen the kingdom under his rule.

By the time Assyria is done they have the whole region, and the come to Jerusalem during Hezekiah's reign from Egypt, and because of the reforms that Hezekiah institutes to turn them back to God, God would not allow Assyria to take Jerusalem. That is Isaiah 36. Any idea Assyria did not fulfill Isaiah 10 is flat wrong! God them judges Assyria by Babylon.

 

[Biblewriter]

This all comes down to doing scripture line upon line. When you do that, you KNOW Isaiah 10 was fulfilled. You don't need "scholars" to figure this out.

It also comes down to which *scholars* you listen to, because there are scholars of all camps of thought.

In Isaiah 10 God says through Isaiah at 10:5, 6:
5 Woe to Assyria, the rod of My anger And the staff in whose hands is My indignation,
6 I send it against a godless nation And commission it against the people of My fury To capture booty and to seize plunder, And to trample them down like mud in the streets.

We know that the "Assyrian campaign" is under various Kings of Assyria as God used them to judge Israel and Judah. It ends with Hezekiah. So no, Hezekiah is not what Isaiah 10 is discussing, and I don't think one can assume it's Hezekiah because no kings are named!

What must be done is one has to look to the evidence as Isaiah is prophesying through the reins of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz and Hezekiah, who are kings of Judah. These are kings Isaiah prophesied to. So definitely this is the time frame of the prophesy as God is angry with both Israel and Judah.

God carries this out and all one need do is read 2 Kings chapters 15-23 and 2 Chronicles chapters 28-32. You will see Assyria takes the entire region from Damascus to Egypt and God intervenes when Assyria come to Jerusalem during Hezekiah’s reign, and that ends Assyria’s dominance of the region.

This is an Assyrian campaign that is under these Assyrian kings:

*Pul

*Tiglath-pileser

*Shalmaneser

*Sargon

*Sennacherib

When it comes to these prophecies the bible doesn’t name every place a prophet may name when it comes to the fulfillment. This would send one to look at the course of things. Assyria takes the whole region. There is NO WAY Isaiah 10 is not fulfilled.

Isaiah is also NOT a chronological prophecy it goes back and forth in prophecy. However other passages that make clear Assyria took the region as God’s instrument of judgment:
Isaiah 7:17-23 but for brevity, I quote Isaiah 7:17:
17 The Lord will bring on you, on your people, and on your father’s house such days as have never come since the day that Ephraim separated from Judah, the king of Assyria.”

Isaiah 8:4:
4 for before the boy knows how to cry out ‘My father’ or ‘My mother,’ the wealth of Damascus and the spoil of Samaria will be carried away before the king of Assyria.”

Isaiah 8:7:
7 “Now therefore, behold, the Lord is about to bring on them the strong and abundant waters of the Euphrates, Even the king of Assyria and all his glory; And it will rise up over all its channels and go over all its banks.

*Notice the poetic language saying Asyrria will "will rise up over all its channels and go over all its banks"...this means they will take the WHOLE REGION!!!

Isaiah 20:1
In the year that the commander came to Ashdod, when Sargon the king of Assyria sent him and he fought against Ashdod and captured it,

Isaiah 20:4:
so the king of Assyria will lead away the captives of Egypt and the exiles of Cush, young and old, naked and barefoot with buttocks uncovered, to the shame of Egypt.

Isaiah 20:6
6 So the inhabitants of this coastland will say in that day, ‘Behold, such is our hope, where we fled for help to be delivered from the king of Assyria; and we, how shall we escape?’”

In Isaiah 36 we have Sennacherib coming to assault Jerusalem. It is at this point that God is about to be done using Assyria as judgment and He will judge Assyria by Babylon!!

Assyria was used of God to judge Israel and Judah and they fulfilled Isaiah 10. Use of good bible maps will prove this point as well as good study of the prophets. Hosea, Ezekiel, and Micah refer to Assyria’s domination of the entire region.

The prophecy of Isaiah 10 was completely fulfilled concerning what Assyria would do to the entire region, and it was done according to God’s will. None remains to be fulfilled.

The fact is the preponderance of the evidence shows that Assyria took the whole region. It begins in 2 Kings 15:19:
19 Pul, king of Assyria, came against the land, and Menahem gave Pul a thousand talents of silver so that his hand might be with him to strengthen the kingdom under his rule.

By the time Assyria is done they have the whole region, and the come to Jerusalem during Hezekiah's reign from Egypt, and because of the reforms that Hezekiah institutes to turn them back to God, God would not allow Assyria to take Jerusalem. That is Isaiah 36. Any idea Assyria did not fulfill Isaiah 10 is flat wrong! God them judges Assyria by Babylon.

This is the typical preterist approach. Ignore the details and claim that it was all fulfilled.

God's "whole work on mount Zion and Jerusalem" (Isaiah 10:12) was most absolutely not fulfilled in Hezekiah's day. And there is no way to even pretend that it was.

The remnant of Israel, and such as have escaped of the house of Jacob," most certainly did not at that time learn to "depend on the Lord, the Holy One of Israel in truth." (Isaiah 10:20)

And no ancient Assyrian king ever attacked Jerusalem by following the path defined in Isaiah 10:28-32.

All these are undeniable facts. So skip your broad generalizations, and your insulting pretension that I have neglected the scriptures, and try to answer these undeniable facts.

 

[ebedmelech]

This is the typical preterist approach. Ignore the details and claim that it was all fulfilled.

No. What that is...is the approach that acknowledges fulfilled prophecy, when it's clearly fulfilled!

God's "whole work on mount Zion and Jerusalem" (Isaiah 10:12) was most absolutely not fulfilled in Hezekiah's day. And there is no way to even pretend that it was.

Really? Let me point you to the 185,000 of Assyria God slew in one day at 2 Kings 19:35. Sennacherib left the area from there and went home to Nineveh Biblewriter. Assyria had done all God had them do. Next you ignore the context which brought this on them because Ahaz made an alliance with Assyria which brought this judgment!!! (2 Kings 16).

Like I said..."line upon line" Biblewriter! It was most certainly fulfilled.

The remnant of Israel, and such as have escaped of the house of Jacob," most certainly did not at that time learn to "depend on the Lord, the Holy One of Israel in truth." (Isaiah 10:20)

This is a twofold prophecy Biblewriter. This again...is speaking of Israel aligning with Assyria in 2 Kings 16 under Ahaz. That's what God means about "relying on the one who struck them"! They relied on Assyria, and it was Assyria who ended up striking them. It's also prophetic, and we know this because Paul utters Isaiah 10:22 at Romans 9:27.

And no ancient Assyrian king ever attacked Jerusalem by following the path defined in Isaiah 10:28-32.

That's pretty erroneous reading too Biblewriter. God is simply naming places (through Isaiah), that Assyria would destroy. Where anywhere in that does it say that is a path Assyria would take to Jerusalem? You let the scripture tell you...YOU don't tell it.

All these are undeniable facts. So skip your broad generalizations, and your insulting pretension that I have neglected the scriptures, and try to answer these undeniable facts.

They were "undeniable presumptions" on your part...and you'll probably stick with them.

 

[Bible2]

Biblewriter said in post 2:

In verses 5-6 we read, "Woe to Assyria, the rod of My anger And the staff in whose hand is My indignation. I will send him against an ungodly nation, And against the people of My wrath I will give him charge, To seize the spoil, to take the prey, And to tread them down like the mire of the streets."

This has been almost universally missed, because the "scholars" have assumed it was just speaking of Sennacherib's attack upon Hezekiah.

Isaiah 10:5-34 could have been fulfilled during Sennacherib's invasion in Isaiah chapters 36-37.

Isaiah 10:9-11 could have been fulfilled in Isaiah 36:19-20 and 2 Kings 18:34-35.

Isaiah 10:12,20,21 could have been fulfilled in Isaiah 37:31-38.

Biblewriter said in post 2:

But we are explicitly told that Hezekiah was the most godly king Judah ever had, and that the Lord gave the people one heart to follow the king in following the Lord. So When Sennacherib attacked, he was attaacjing a godly nation, not an ungodly one.

2 Kings 18:5-6 doesn't say that the masses of Israel weren't hypocritical (Isaiah 10:6) at the time of Isaiah 36:1, just as 2 Chronicles 30:12 refers only to the people keeping a single passover (2 Chronicles 30:2,13) near the start of Hezekiah's reign (2 Chronicles 29:3,17; 2 Chronicles 30:2,13), not to how the people were 14 years later (Isaiah 36:1, Isaiah 10:5-6).

Biblewriter said in post 2:

And there can be zero question that the path described in Isaiah 10:28-32 is not the path followed by Sennacherib.

There is no historical proof that Sennacherib didn't fulfill Isaiah 10:28-32. His main army could have gone down the coast while he led an expeditionary force quickly down the ridge (leaving no archaeological markers) to check out the approaches to Jerusalem and get a sense of the best way to lay siege to it. Then he could have shaken his fist at Jerusalem (Isaiah 10:32) and rejoined his main army along the coast.

Later, while he was besieging Lachish, he could have worried how long it would take to besiege Jerusalem, and so sent some of his forces to try to scare-talk Jerusalem into surrender (2 Kings 18:17-37) so that he wouldn't have to return and lay siege to it. Note the similarity of his boasting in 2 Kings 18:34-35 and Isaiah 36:19-20 to that prophesied in Isaiah 10:9-11.

Biblewriter said in post 2:

Again, we read in Micah 5, "When the Assyrian comes into our land, And when he treads in our palaces, Then we will raise against him Seven shepherds and eight princely men. They shall waste with the sword the land of Assyria, And the land of Nimrod at its entrances; Thus He shall deliver us from the Assyrian, When he comes into our land And when he treads within our borders. Then the remnant of Jacob Shall be in the midst of many peoples, Like dew from the LORD, Like showers on the grass, That tarry for no man Nor wait for the sons of men. And the remnant of Jacob Shall be among the Gentiles, In the midst of many peoples, Like a lion among the beasts of the forest, Like a young lion among flocks of sheep, Who, if he passes through, Both treads down and tears in pieces, And none can deliver." (Micah 5:5-8)

In Micah 5:5, "the Assyrian shall come into our land" could refer to when the Antichrist and his world armies will pillage Jerusalem right before Jesus' 2nd coming (Zechariah 14:2-4, Daniel 11:45) and the defeat of the Antichrist (Isaiah 30:30-33, Revelation 19:20). The subsequent successful fighting by the Jews in Zechariah 14:14 and Zechariah 12:6-8 could include what Micah 5:5b-6a is referring to.

The ancient Assyrian empire included Lebanon, and the Antichrist could have Assyrian blood in him.

The Antichrist could have grown up as a Druze Arab, in Lebanon, in the modern city of Tyre (Ezekiel 28:2; 2 Thessalonians 2:4). So he could at first present himself to the world as being of the (quasi-Islamic) Druze religion, which is waiting for the 2nd coming of a God-man named "Hakim". The Antichrist's last name could be "Hakim", and he could at first present himself to the Druze people as the fulfillment of the 2nd coming of this God-man. In this way, he could get the Druze to support him without question during an initial rise to power among the Arabs. The Druze Arabs could be the numerically "small people" of Daniel 11:23. The Antichrist could make them his completely-devoted bodyguard, and buy them many key positions of power within a future United Arab States (which the Antichrist could become the leader of in the first stage of his world takeover), and employ the Druze as loyal spies and assassins at every level of his United Arab government and military.

The Druze religion is very secretive. What it teaches to its higher-level initiates isn't even taught to its lower-level initiates. What it could teach to its higher-level initiates could basically be Gnosticism mixed in with the Hakim God-man idea. The Antichrist himself, while outwardly a Druze, could inwardly be a Gnostic Luciferian. He could be a highest-level initiate of a worldwide secret society which ultimately teaches Gnostic Luciferianism, but keeps this a secret even from its own members who haven't been initiated into its highest level.

 

[Biblewriter]

Really? Let me point you to the 185,000 of Assyria God slew in one day at 2 Kings 19:35. Sennacherib left the area from there and went home to Nineveh Biblewriter. Assyria had done all God had them do. Next you ignore the context which brought this on them because Ahaz made an alliance with Assyria which brought this judgment!!! (2 Kings 16).

Like I said..."line upon line" Biblewriter! It was most certainly fulfilled.

You are the one who is ignoring "line upon line." You cannot even pretend that the lord's "whole work upon mount Zion and Jerusalem" was fulfilled at that time. Jerusalem had already turned back to the true God before Sennacherib ever invaded. And even you admit that the Lord did not complete his work "upon mount Zion and Jerusalem" before AD 70.

This is a twofold prophecy Biblewriter. This again...is speaking of Israel aligning with Assyria in 2 Kings 16 under Ahaz. That's what God means about "relying on the one who struck them"! They relied on Assyria, and it was Assyria who ended up striking them. It's also prophetic, and we know this because Paul utters Isaiah 10:22 at Romans 9:27.

I fond it quite curious that you claim that Romans 9:27 is not prophetic when you are discussing a future for Israel, but you claim it is prophetic when you are claiming Isaiah 10 has been fulfilled.

That's pretty erroneous reading too Biblewriter. God is simply naming places (through Isaiah), that Assyria would destroy. Where anywhere in that does it say that is a path Assyria would take to Jerusalem? You let the scripture tell you...YOU don't tell it.

They were "undeniable presumptions" on your part...and you'll probably stick with them.

Here you are 100% mistaken. the passage reads:

“He has come to Aiath, He has passed Migron; At Michmash he has attended to his equipment. They have gone along the ridge, They have taken up lodging at Geba. Ramah is afraid, Gibeah of Saul has fled. Lift up your voice, O daughter of Gallim! Cause it to be heard as far as Laish; O poor Anathoth! Madmenah has fled, The inhabitants of Gebim seek refuge. As yet he will remain at Nob that day; He will shake his fist at the mount of the daughter of Zion, The hill of Jerusalem.” (Isaiah 10:28-32)

These are not just random places. They are listed in the exact order in which you come to them if you go to them in sequence.

The following details show the daily progress of this attack.

Day 1:

“At Michmash he has attended to his equipment.”

Day 2:

“They have taken up lodging at Geba.”

Day 3:

“As yet he will remain at Nob that day.”

Day 4:

“He will shake his fist at the mount of the daughter of Zion, The hill of Jerusalem.”

This passage describes a defeat of ten cities in only four days. Even by modern standards, this is remarkable progress for an advancing army.

Further, we clearly read, "They have gone along the ridge" between Michmash and Geba. If you examing a detailed relief map, you will see that there is a horseshoe shaped ridge between these two cities, towering 600 feet (200 meters) above the valley below.

Further, when the Assyrian troops came to Jerusalem, that came from Lachish, (2 Kings 18:17) which is south of Jerusalem, not north of it, as are all the cities listed in this account. And while they were there, Sennacherib went to Libnah. (2 Kings 19:8)

Archeologists have found extensive evidence of the Assyrian presence in southern Judea, but absolutely nothing in that portion of ancient Judea that was north of Jerusalem. That is, in the entire area covered by this account.

The writers of the Dead Sea Scroils quoted this exact passage, clearly stating that it spoke of the future. But if it had been fulfilled in their past, they would have known about that.

Again, Isaiah 7 speaks of a simultaneous attack upon Judea by Assyria and Egypt, typifying their armies as swarms of insects. Althoung both Assyria and Egypt attacked Judea in ancient times, there was never a time when they attacked at the same time.

Further, in Isaiah 14, just after announcing the destruction of the Assyrian, (verses 24-27) the Lord says, “do not rejoice, all you of Philistia, Because the rod that struck you is broken; For out of the serpent's roots will come forth a viper, And its ·offspring will be a fiery flying serpent... And it will slay your remnant. Wail, O gate! Cry, O city! All you of Philistia are dissolved; For smoke will come from the north, And no one will be alone in his appointed times.” (verses 29-31) This destroyer will come out of the roots of one who had previously conquered Philistia.

This plainly speaks of two attackers, one a descendant of the other, separated by an unspecified number of generations. But history tells us that this previous conqueror was Sennacherib, king of Assyria. This again shows a future attack from someone the scriptures call "the Assyrian."

Three main tools of false teachers are inappropriate generalizations, oversimplification, and accusing others of doing exactly what they are doing. These are stock in trade for preterists.

 

[Biblewriter]

Isaiah 10:5-34 could have been fulfilled during Sennacherib's invasion in Isaiah chapters 36-37.

Isaiah 10:9-11 could have been fulfilled in Isaiah 36:19-20 and 2 Kings 18:34-35.

Isaiah 10:12,20,21 could have been fulfilled in Isaiah 37:31-38.



2 Kings 18:5-6 doesn't say that the masses of Israel weren't hypocritical (Isaiah 10:6) at the time of Isaiah 36:1, just as 2 Chronicles 30:12 refers only to the people keeping a single passover (2 Chronicles 30:2,13) near the start of Hezekiah's reign (2 Chronicles 29:3,17; 2 Chronicles 30:2,13), not to how the people were 14 years later (Isaiah 36:1, Isaiah 10:5-6).



There is no historical proof that Sennacherib didn't fulfill Isaiah 10:28-32. His main army could have gone down the coast while he led an expeditionary force quickly down the ridge (leaving no archaeological markers) to check out the approaches to Jerusalem and get a sense of the best way to lay siege to it. Then he could have shaken his fist at Jerusalem (Isaiah 10:32) and rejoined his main army along the coast.

Later, while he was besieging Lachish, he could have worried how long it would take to besiege Jerusalem, and so sent some of his forces to try to scare-talk Jerusalem into surrender (2 Kings 18:17-37) so that he wouldn't have to return and lay siege to it. Note the similarity of his boasting in 2 Kings 18:34-35 and Isaiah 36:19-20 to that prophesied in Isaiah 10:9-11.



In Micah 5:5, "the Assyrian shall come into our land" could refer to when the Antichrist and his world armies will pillage Jerusalem right before Jesus' 2nd coming (Zechariah 14:2-4, Daniel 11:45) and the defeat of the Antichrist (Isaiah 30:30-33, Revelation 19:20). The subsequent successful fighting by the Jews in Zechariah 14:14 and Zechariah 12:6-8 could include what Micah 5:5b-6a is referring to.

The ancient Assyrian empire included Lebanon, and the Antichrist could have Assyrian blood in him.

The Antichrist could have grown up as a Druze Arab, in Lebanon, in the modern city of Tyre (Ezekiel 28:2; 2 Thessalonians 2:4). So he could at first present himself to the world as being of the (quasi-Islamic) Druze religion, which is waiting for the 2nd coming of a God-man named "Hakim". The Antichrist's last name could be "Hakim", and he could at first present himself to the Druze people as the fulfillment of the 2nd coming of this God-man. In this way, he could get the Druze to support him without question during an initial rise to power among the Arabs. The Druze Arabs could be the numerically "small people" of Daniel 11:23. The Antichrist could make them his completely-devoted bodyguard, and buy them many key positions of power within a future United Arab States (which the Antichrist could become the leader of in the first stage of his world takeover), and employ the Druze as loyal spies and assassins at every level of his United Arab government and military.

The Druze religion is very secretive. What it teaches to its higher-level initiates isn't even taught to its lower-level initiates. What it could teach to its higher-level initiates could basically be Gnosticism mixed in with the Hakim God-man idea. The Antichrist himself, while outwardly a Druze, could inwardly be a Gnostic Luciferian. He could be a highest-level initiate of a worldwide secret society which ultimately teaches Gnostic Luciferianism, but keeps this a secret even from its own members who haven't been initiated into its highest level.

I have very little patience with foolish suppositions about what "might have" happened. The records, both inspired and secular clearly say otherwise.

 

[ebedmelech]

You are the one who is ignoring "line upon line." You cannot even pretend that the lord's "whole work upon mount Zion and Jerusalem" was fulfilled at that time. Jerusalem had already turned back to the true God before Sennacherib ever invaded. And even you admit that the Lord did not complete his work "upon mount Zion and Jerusalem" before AD 70.

That statement has to do with God dealing with Judah at that time. God says what His "whole work" is inIsaiah 10:5-11:
5 Woe to Assyria, the rod of My anger And the staff in whose hands is My indignation,
6 I send it against a godless nation And commission it against the people of My fury To capture booty and to seize plunder, And to trample them down like mud in the streets.
7 Yet it does not so intend, Nor does it plan so in its heart, But rather it is its purpose to destroy And to cut off many nations.
8 For it says, “Are not my princes all kings?
9 “Is not Calno like Carchemish, Or Hamath like Arpad, Or Samaria like Damascus?
10 “As my hand has reached to the kingdoms of the idols, Whose graven images were greater than those of Jerusalem and Samaria,
11 Shall I not do to Jerusalem and her images Just as I have done to Samaria and her idols?”
That is "the whole work on Mt Zion" God is speaking of there.

I fond it quite curious that you claim that Romans 9:27 is not prophetic when you are discussing a future for Israel, but you claim it is prophetic when you are claiming Isaiah 10 has been fulfilled.

I did not say that and you can't find one place where I said that. Why would I when Paul is quoting it? I think you got it confused.

Here you are 100% mistaken. the passage reads:

“He has come to Aiath, He has passed Migron; At Michmash he has attended to his equipment. They have gone along the ridge, They have taken up lodging at Geba. Ramah is afraid, Gibeah of Saul has fled. Lift up your voice, O daughter of Gallim! Cause it to be heard as far as Laish; O poor Anathoth! Madmenah has fled, The inhabitants of Gebim seek refuge. As yet he will remain at Nob that day; He will shake his fist at the mount of the daughter of Zion, The hill of Jerusalem.” (Isaiah 10:28-32)

These are not just random places. They are listed in the exact order in which you come to them if you go to them in sequence.

The following details show the daily progress of this attack.

Day 1:

“At Michmash he has attended to his equipment.”

Day 2:

“They have taken up lodging at Geba.”

Day 3:

“As yet he will remain at Nob that day.”

Day 4:

“He will shake his fist at the mount of the daughter of Zion, The hill of Jerusalem.”

This passage describes a defeat of ten cities in only four days. Even by modern standards, this is remarkable progress for an advancing army.

Further, we clearly read, "They have gone along the ridge" between Michmash and Geba. If you examing a detailed relief map, you will see that there is a horseshoe shaped ridge between these two cities, towering 600 feet (200 meters) above the valley below.

Further, when the Assyrian troops came to Jerusalem, that came from Lachish, (2 Kings 18:17) which is south of Jerusalem, not north of it, as are all the cities listed in this account. And while they were there, Sennacherib went to Libnah. (2 Kings 19:8)

Archeologists have found extensive evidence of the Assyrian presence in southern Judea, but absolutely nothing in that portion of ancient Judea that was north of Jerusalem. That is, in the entire area covered by this account.

The writers of the Dead Sea Scroils quoted this exact passage, clearly stating that it spoke of the future. But if it had been fulfilled in their past, they would have known about that.

Again, Isaiah 7 speaks of a simultaneous attack upon Judea by Assyria and Egypt, typifying their armies as swarms of insects. Althoung both Assyria and Egypt attacked Judea in ancient times, there was never a time when they attacked at the same time.

Further, in Isaiah 14, just after announcing the destruction of the Assyrian, (verses 24-27) the Lord says, “do not rejoice, all you of Philistia, Because the rod that struck you is broken; For out of the serpent's roots will come forth a viper, And its ·offspring will be a fiery flying serpent... And it will slay your remnant. Wail, O gate! Cry, O city! All you of Philistia are dissolved; For smoke will come from the north, And no one will be alone in his appointed times.” (verses 29-31) This destroyer will come out of the roots of one who had previously conquered Philistia.

This plainly speaks of two attackers, one a descendant of the other, separated by an unspecified number of generations. But history tells us that this previous conqueror was Sennacherib, king of Assyria. This again shows a future attack from someone the scriptures call "the Assyrian."

Three main tools of false teachers are inappropriate generalizations, oversimplification, and accusing others of doing exactly what they are doing. These are stock in trade for preterists.

Biblewriter, what you've done there is contrived the scripture so you would be the false teacher! I will ask you again where in the passage does that say it is a path Assyria would take? It doesn't! Any map will show these places are in close proximity, but the passage in NO WAY says that Assyria came that way to Jerusalem.

You've proceeded to make it up! Where is your evidence it happened that way? Archaeology digs cannot "say it happened this way", so that doesn't support your argument! This is why you're taking "liberties" with the passage. These are places that would be taken by Assyria but it doesn't say that is the order in which they would be taken...your purely assuming! It would end up finally at Jerusalem.

When it comes to Isaiah 14 what are you doing but contriving? That speaks of King Ahaz's overthrow! He is the one that aligned with Assyria to cover his hide from Edom. God judges him by the King of Assyria! That's 2 Kings 16 and 2 Chronicles 28...read them. You're really contriving now!

It says say at Isaiah 10:32 is:
32 Yet today he will halt at Nob; He shakes his fist at the mountain of the daughter of Zion, the hill of Jerusalem.

Now the strange part here is if one reads 2 Chronicles 32 and 2 Kings 19 it's pretty clear Assyria has the WHOLE REGION. There's no need to quibble about this. We know it's fulfilled because of what Rabshakeh says in 2 Kings 19:11-13:
11 Behold, you have heard what the kings of Assyria have done to all the lands, destroying them completely. So will you be spared?
12 Did the gods of those nations which my fathers destroyed deliver them, even Gozan and Haran and Rezeph and the sons of Eden who were in Telassar?
13 Where is the king of Hamath, the king of Arpad, the king of the city of Sepharvaim, and of Hena and Ivvah?’”

Also where is Assyria here? THEY ARE AT MT ZION...where God's "whole work" would end.

Now...you want to believe that this isn't fulfilled because God doesn't show this as "word for word" fulfillment anywhere. Yet we have Assyria in control of the whole region, but Isaiah 10 is not fulfilled? Pretty much beyond credulity!

As Isaiah speaks to Hezekiah at 2 Kings 19:20-36, you want to believe Isaiah 10 was not fulfilled? Keep dreaming. Any person with reasonable reading comprehension would know from 2 Kings 15 - 2 Kings 19 God is fulfilling Isaiah 10.

Even what is written in 2 Kings 17:7-18, explaining why Samaria/Israel where disperse is telling you Assyria has the whole region.

You're in a dream land saying Isaiah 10 is future. As you try to prove your point...you're really proving mine!

 

[Biblewriter]

Biblewriter, what you've done there is contrived the scripture so you would be the false teacher! I will ask you again where in the passage does that say it is a path Assyria would take? It doesn't! Any map will show these places are in close proximity, but the passage in NO WAY says that Assyria came that way to Jerusalem.

No, these places are not just in "close proximity" they are listed in the exact order you would cpme to them if you traveled from Aiath (the first location on the list) to Jerusalem (the last location on the list.)

You've proceeded to make it up! Where is your evidence it happened that way? Archaeology digs cannot "say it happened this way", so that doesn't support your argument! This is why you're taking "liberties" with the passage. These are places that would be taken by Assyria but it doesn't say that is the order in which they would be taken...your purely assuming! It would end up finally at Jerusalem.[/quoote]

Once again, you are ignoring "line upon line." It explicitly says, "they have gone along the ridge," "they have taken up lodging at Geba," and "as yet he will remain at Nob that day." This is unquestionably a statement that they would come along that part. This is not just interpretation. It is what it says.

When it comes to Isaiah 14 what are you doing but contriving? That speaks of King Ahaz's overthrow! He is the one that aligned with Assyria to cover his hide from Edom. God judges him by the King of Assyria! That's 2 Kings 16 and 2 Chronicles 28...read them. You're really contriving now!

Isaiah says absolutely nothing about the overthrow of Ahaz. It clearly states that the subject is the destruction of "the Assyrian," not of Ahaz.

24 The LORD of hosts has sworn, saying, "Surely, as I have thought, so it shall come to pass, And as I have purposed, so it shall stand:
25 That I will break the Assyrian in My land, And on My mountains tread him underfoot. Then his yoke shall be removed from them, And his burden removed from their shoulders.
26 This is the purpose that is purposed against the whole earth, And this is the hand that is stretched out over all the nations.
27 For the LORD of hosts has purposed, And who will annul it? His hand is stretched out, And who will turn it back?"
Isaiah 14:24-27


Then, the pronouncement came in the year that Ahaz died. But what was the pronouncement? It was not about the destruction of Ahaz, but telling the Philistines that a descendant of the one who had recently destroyed them would come back and destroy them again.

Now...you want to believe that this isn't fulfilled because God doesn't show this as "word for word" fulfillment anywhere. Yet we have Assyria in control of the whole region, but Isaiah 10 is not fulfilled? Pretty much beyond credulity!

Here you reveal the flawed basis of your entire system of interpretation. You complain about me wanting a "word-for-word fulfillment." But if the prophecy was indeed inspired by God, it must be letter perfect, absolutely correct in all of its details. And a word-for-word fulfillment is the only fulfillment that meets the words pronounced by God.

21 And if you say in your heart, 'How shall we know the word which the LORD has not spoken?'--
22 when a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if the thing does not happen or come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him.
Deuteronomy 18:21-22

The standard tools of deception are inappropriate generalities, gross oversimplification, the glossing over of details that simply do not fit.

 

[ebedmelech]

No, these places are not just in "close proximity" they are listed in the exact order you would cpme to them if you traveled from Aiath (the first location on the list) to Jerusalem (the last location on the list.)

You have yet to prove such. Those are locations on a list, nothing says it's a path. What I do know is they're in proximity of one another. When you can prove what you say, I'm listening.

I've read commentaries that say just what you say, and I disagree with them to. I accept what the passage says, they came to they places, it doesn't matte in what order...they came because that's what it says.

Once again, you are ignoring "line upon line." It explicitly says, "they have gone along the ridge," "they have taken up lodging at Geba," and "as yet he will remain at Nob that day." This is unquestionably a statement that they would come along that part. This is not just interpretation. It is what it says.

That doesn't mean it didn't happen. This is funny. You can't show that what you claim is a path Assyria will take, is a path. Yet even though we know Assyria took this whole region you want a passage to say that.

Isaiah says absolutely nothing about the overthrow of Ahaz. It clearly states that the subject is the destruction of "the Assyrian," not of Ahaz.

Isaiah 28:
28 In the year that King Ahaz died this oracle came:

Now...when you're interest enough to read 2 Chronicles 28, you might understand what Isaiah 14 is about.

24 The LORD of hosts has sworn, saying, "Surely, as I have thought, so it shall come to pass, And as I have purposed, so it shall stand:
25 That I will break the Assyrian in My land, And on My mountains tread him underfoot. Then his yoke shall be removed from them, And his burden removed from their shoulders.
26 This is the purpose that is purposed against the whole earth, And this is the hand that is stretched out over all the nations.
27 For the LORD of hosts has purposed, And who will annul it? His hand is stretched out, And who will turn it back?" Isaiah 14:24-27

Once again please go to 2 Kings 19 where God slays 185,000 Assyrians and Sennacherib returns to Nineveh. That what this is.

Then, the pronouncement came in the year that Ahaz died. But what was the pronouncement? It was not about the destruction of Ahaz, but telling the Philistines that a descendant of the one who had recently destroyed them would come back and destroy them again.

Now, have you read 2 Kings 17?

Here you reveal the flawed basis of your entire system of interpretation. You complain about me wanting a "word-for-word fulfillment." But if the prophecy was indeed inspired by God, it must be letter perfect, absolutely correct in all of its details. And a word-for-word fulfillment is the only fulfillment that meets the words pronounced by God.

The standard tools of deception are inappropriate generalities, gross oversimplification, the glossing over of details that simply do not fit.

No..."Biblewriter" says it must be letter perfect, God doesn't say that. This is why you go of on the prophetic tangents. Some things you have to look at all the details and get the full picture.

Assyria is poetically said to "overflow it's banks" it means their reach would go far beyond them.

Just start in 2 Kings 15 Biblewriter and make a note of all the places they capture....

Isaiah 10:12 makes my point easily when I go and read how the kings of Judah he spoke to by Isaiah 1:1, which are Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz and Hezekiah. That sends me to 2 Kings and 2 Chronicles to get details.

Now...that may not be enough for you, but it is for me. I will hold that Isaiah 10 is fulfilled, and the totality of the scriptural evidence says so. It's like a trial Biblewriter, you weigh the preponderance of the evidence. Go read of all the places of the region Assyria captured. You might get it then.

Let me leave you one passage that makes my point...2 Kings 17:5:
5 Then the king of Assyria invaded the whole land and went up to Samaria and besieged it three years.

Is that a lie? THE WHOLE LAND....do you know what God means when He says THE WHOLE LAND???

 

[Interplanner]

The remnant Isaiah envisioned returned to God and Mt validated that. That's "word for word" for you.

 

[Bible2]

Biblewriter said in post 11:

Again, Isaiah 7 speaks of a simultaneous attack upon Judea by Assyria and Egypt, typifying their armies as swarms of insects.

Isaiah 7:17-25 is addressed to Ahaz (Isaiah 7:12). The king of Assyria in Isaiah 7:17 could refer to Tilgathpilneser (2 Chronicles 28:19-21, cf. 1 Chronicles 5:6). And the rivers of Egypt in Isaiah 7:18 could refer to small rivers near the southern end of Philistia and its border with Egypt. For "the river of Egypt" was a small river at the southern border of Israel in the land of the Philistines (Numbers 34:5, Joshua 15:4,47). So Isaiah 7:18 could refer to the invasion of Judah by both the Philistines and Tilgathpilneser in the time of Ahaz (2 Chronicles 28:18-21).

Biblewriter said in post 11:

Further, in Isaiah 14, just after announcing the destruction of the Assyrian, (verses 24-27) the Lord says, “do not rejoice, all you of Philistia, Because the rod that struck you is broken; For out of the serpent's roots will come forth a viper, And its ·offspring will be a fiery flying serpent... And it will slay your remnant. Wail, O gate! Cry, O city! All you of Philistia are dissolved; For smoke will come from the north, And no one will be alone in his appointed times.” (verses 29-31) This destroyer will come out of the roots of one who had previously conquered Philistia.

Isaiah 14:28-29 could include reference to Palestina (the ancient Philistines) possibly being smitten by Tilgathpilneser king of Assyria in the time of Ahaz (2 Chronicles 28:18-21). Palestina could have been smitten again later by a subsequent king of Assyria, such as Sennacherib in the time of Hezekiah (2 Kings 18:13), the son of Ahaz (2 Kings 18:1).

 

[Bible2]

.

 

[Interplanner]

So much for looking at what the apostles said it means. Let's check with GOOD HOUSEKEEPING next!

 

[Biblewriter]

You have yet to prove such. Those are locations on a list, nothing says it's a path. What I do know is they're in proximity of one another. When you can prove what you say, I'm listening.

Here is a map showing the exact locations of these cities on a relief map of the area. If you examine the relief map, you will see the 200 meter (600 foot) high ridge at the place where it says, "they have gone along the ridge." Every red spot is a place where a stop is mentioned in the text.

I've read commentaries that say just what you say, and I disagree with them to. I accept what the passage says, they came to they places, it doesn't matte in what order...they came because that's what it says.

It does not say they came. It says they would come. You are assuming, without a shred of evidence, that they came to these places. Every history or this campaign you can find will tell you in plain words that they did not enter this area, including the Bible itself. For it says they enteret southern Judea, and then came from there to Judea.

That doesn't mean it didn't happen. This is funny. You can't show that what you claim is a path Assyria will take, is a path. Yet even though we know Assyria took this whole region you want a passage to say that.

You really should be more careful in your selection of proof texts. The one you gave to prove this (2 Kings 17:5) was not even speaking of this campaign, or even of this nation! This was about Shalmanezer, not Sennacherib. And it was about Israel, not Judah!

1 In the twelfth year of Ahaz king of Judah, Hoshea the son of Elah became king of Israel in Samaria, and he reigned nine years.
2 And he did evil in the sight of the LORD, but not as the kings of Israel who were before him.
3 Shalmaneser king of Assyria came up against him; and Hoshea became his vassal, and paid him tribute money.
4 And the king of Assyria uncovered a conspiracy by Hoshea; for he had sent messengers to So, king of Egypt, and brought no tribute to the king of Assyria, as he had done year by year. Therefore the king of Assyria shut him up, and bound him in prison.
5 Now the king of Assyria went throughout all the land, and went up to Samaria and besieged it for three years.
2 Kings 17:1-5

Isaiah 28:
28 In the year that King Ahaz died this oracle came:

Now...when you're interest enough to read 2 Chronicles 28, you might understand what Isaiah 14 is about.

Once again please go to 2 Kings 19 where God slays 185,000 Assyrians and Sennacherib returns to Nineveh. That what this is.

Now, have you read 2 Kings 17?

You are confusing things that happened in different nations and in different generations. And not even one of the passages you cited has any bearing whatsoever on the point, which is that a second oppressor would come against Philistia, not Judea, and the second one would be a descendant of the one whose destruction had just been described. This was the destruction of Sennacherib, as described in 2 Kings 19:35-37. So this scripture indeed speaks of a future Assyrian after Sennacherib.

No..."Biblewriter" says it must be letter perfect, God doesn't say that. This is why you go of on the prophetic tangents. Some things you have to look at all the details and get the full picture.

Assyria is poetically said to "overflow it's banks" it means their reach would go far beyond them.

Letter perfect indeed allows for figures of speech, but that changes nothing. we read in Deuteronomy 18:21-22 "And if you say in your heart, 'How shall we know the word which the LORD has not spoken?'-- when a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if the thing does not happen or come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him." But much more to the point Jesus himself said, "assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled." (Matthew 5:18) Here the Lord Himself stressed that not only every word in the Bible was important, but even every letter of every word.

Just start in 2 Kings 15 Biblewriter and make a note of all the places they capture....

Isaiah 10:12 makes my point easily when I go and read how the kings of Judah he spoke to by Isaiah 1:1, which are Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz and Hezekiah. That sends me to 2 Kings and 2 Chronicles to get details.

Now...that may not be enough for you, but it is for me. I will hold that Isaiah 10 is fulfilled, and the totality of the scriptural evidence says so. It's like a trial Biblewriter, you weigh the preponderance of the evidence. Go read of all the places of the region Assyria captured. You might get it then.

Let me leave you one passage that makes my point...2 Kings 17:5:
5 Then the king of Assyria invaded the whole land and went up to Samaria and besieged it three years.

Is that a lie? THE WHOLE LAND....do you know what God means when He says THE WHOLE LAND???

I have already answered this completely erroneous observation. You really need to study the scriptures, paying attention to all the details, instead of just skimming over the high points.