Origins and the nature of man

[jereth]

Curious to see if there is a correlation between the origins, ie creationism vs evolution of man and the belief in the bi/tripartite nature of man.

Okay, let's try again

 

[Assyrian]

You have missed out on the spirit, whether it is different from the soul or not, as well as where it comes from.

You have also missed out on Gap Theory, but as long as they are happy to sign in as OEC that shouldn't be a problem.

 

[Pats]

Well, there's never going to be an option for us folks who are between the labels. But, I'm glad to see that the OEC's were included.

Can some one explain in simple terms the difference between a sould that is emergant and one that arises seperately?

I'm not sure I know how to nail down my personal belief on this using these terms.

 

[gluadys]

Well, there's never going to be an option for us folks who are between the labels. But, I'm glad to see that the OEC's were included.

Can some one explain in simple terms the difference between a sould that is emergant and one that arises seperately?

I'm not sure I know how to nail down my personal belief on this using these terms.

A soul that arises separately comes from outside the body and is not dependent on the body for its own existence. This is the stance taken by those who consider that humans evolved biologically, but were then endowed with a soul by a special act of God. That seems to be the current position of the Catholic church.

There are creationist equivalents to this as well, but I will let them speak to it.

A soul that is emergent is one that appears as a consequence of biological evolution but takes the species beyond biology. It develops over time as the physical being (in particular the brain) becomes more capable of spiritual awareness.

Again, there are creationist equivalents to this that do not include evolution, but do see body & soul as unitary, not separable, and the creation of the soul and body as a single act.

An unanswered question in this case is whether such a soul is immortal. Can it continue on its own once the body/brain dies?

I do not speak for other TEs here, but only for myself. I personally rejected the concept of the immortal soul even before I rejected creationism. I consider it an import from Greek philosophy that has no biblical basis. My belief is that the soul, like the body, will be resurrected. An immortal soul is necessary if one believes in reincarnation. But reincarnation has no place in biblical theology. We believe in resurrection.

 

[jereth]

This is the stance taken by those who consider that humans evolved biologically, but were then endowed with a soul by a special act of God. That seems to be the current position of the Catholic church.

Do you perchance have a reference from an official Catholic source? I'm very interested. Thanks.

Again, there are creationist equivalents to this that do not include evolution, but do see body & soul as unitary, not separable, and the creation of the soul and body as a single act.

The classic exposition of this view is by Seveth-day Adventists.

I do not speak for other TEs here, but only for myself. I personally rejected the concept of the immortal soul even before I rejected creationism. I consider it an import from Greek philosophy that has no biblical basis. My belief is that the soul, like the body, will be resurrected. An immortal soul is necessary if one believes in reincarnation. But reincarnation has no place in biblical theology. We believe in resurrection.

Heartily agree, sister!

 

[Pats]

I personally rejected the concept of the immortal soul even before I rejected creationism. I consider it an import from Greek philosophy that has no biblical basis. My belief is that the soul, like the body, will be resurrected. An immortal soul is necessary if one believes in reincarnation. But reincarnation has no place in biblical theology. We believe in resurrection.

I don't think I've ever put this much thought into before, but I'm very glad it has come up.

I've realized through some of these threads that have cropped up in OT lately just how much I was taught in the past I've taken for granted as true without looking into for myself.

 

[jabechler]

Sorry I could not answer your poll. I believe that at creation God fashion man from the ground and breathed life into him thus creating a living soul. Thus when God takes back the breath of life the body and soul ceases to exist. When and if that person had accepted Christ as their personal savior they will be raised body and soul just as Christ was. I know this is not generally accepted in a spiritualistic christian view but I believ it is what the scriptures reveal.

 

[gluadys]

Do you perchance have a reference from an official Catholic source? I'm very interested. Thanks.

http://www.christusrex.org/www1/pope/vise10-23-96.html

This is the papal statement of 1996 on evolution. Can't get much more official than that.

Note especially the first paragraph of section 4, and this conclusion to section 5:

Consequently, theories of evolution which, in accordance with the philosophies inspiring them, consider the spirit as emerging from the forces of living matter or as a mere epiphenomenon of this matter, are incompatible with the truth about man. Nor are they able to ground the dignity of the person.​

Emphasis in original.

 

[Assyrian]

epiphenomenon cool
I've learned a new word today.

 

[Marshall Janzen]

epiphenomenon cool
I've learned a new word today.

Me too, but I think it will take a few more days at least until I can pronounce it!

 

[rmwilliamsll]

epiphenomenon cool
I've learned a new word today.

it is an important term and crucial idea in the philosophy of mind.

 

[jereth]

http://www.christusrex.org/www1/pope/vise10-23-96.html

This is the papal statement of 1996 on evolution. Can't get much more official than that.

That's fantastic, glaudys, thanks.
Having read the brief section on the nature of man (points 5 and 6), I can't say I agree with it. There doesn't seem to be a biblical or scientific basis for what he is saying.

 

[jereth]

Sorry I could not answer your poll. I believe that at creation God fashion man from the ground and breathed life into him thus creating a living soul. Thus when God takes back the breath of life the body and soul ceases to exist. When and if that person had accepted Christ as their personal savior they will be raised body and soul just as Christ was.

Sounds like you could vote for option 1 (YEC/emergent)

I know this is not generally accepted in a spiritualistic christian view but I believ it is what the scriptures reveal.

You'll be surprised, friend, but an increasing number of non-SDA protestant Christians are moving away from bipartite towards unity of human nature. This is no longer a distinctive SDA position. Check out the poll result.

 

[jereth]

I don't think I've ever put this much thought into before, but I'm very glad it has come up.

I've realized through some of these threads that have cropped up in OT lately just how much I was taught in the past I've taken for granted as true without looking into for myself.

Hi Pats,
Indeed, the Christian church has a very strong tradition of teaching the dualist nature of humanity (soul/spirit arising separately from the body). We are firmly rooted in the philosophy of Descartes (who is most famous for saying: "I think, therefore I am") and Plato, rather than that of Moses and Paul.

In the 19th-20th century soul/body dualism was shattered by advances in biology, embryology, neuroscience and medicine. You'll find very few biologists or medical doctors who are substance dualists. But the general public has not really caught up with the scientific world. And soul/body dualism is so ingrained in Christian dogma that it is likely to remain that way for a long time yet to come.