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only he who now letteth [will let], until he be taken out of the way.

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Hedgehog, Jul 21, 2005.

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  1. Hedgehog

    Hedgehog saved by grace through faith

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    2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

    2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth [will let], until he be taken out of the way.


    People say this is speaking of the Holy Spirit.

    How can it be? Will the Holy Spirit ever leave?

    Jhn 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
     
  2. richardo

    richardo New Member

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    It seems many people have theories about who the restrainer is in 2 thess 2. They usually say it is the Holy Spirit or it is the Church. But what does Scripture say on this topic?

    But if we have a question about the Word of God, who are you going to ask, God or man? God says we are to rely on him and not trust in man. If that is true then we should be able to find the answer in Scripture.

    In a study I did of the Word on this topic, I found that indeed Scripture does reveal who the restrainer is. Scripture is logical, clear and understandable. To see what I mean read the breif study.

    last days mystery (dot) info Restrainer

    Richard Perry

    last days mystery (dot) info
     
  3. Justme

    Justme Senior Veteran

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    Hi Forum,

    More importantly WHO is being restrained. That is the subject of the first verse you quoted.

    As far as who does the restraining, I'm surprised that there ever developed a contraversy over that.

    Holy Spirit/will of God/God's force-does it matter?

    Justme
     
  4. vinsight4u

    vinsight4u Contributor

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  5. Witness.

    Witness. New Member

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    Hi Hedgehog,

    I too have troubles with the pretrib rapture notion that the Holy Spirit is the one who restrains the antichrist. To me, it does not make any sense.

    It is clear in Revelation, that there will be those who are saved, followers of Christ, during the great tribulation. If the church is raptured before this time, then that means that they are new converts. It is the Holy Spirit that enters a man's heart and teaches him the truth of Jesus and salvation. How can people come to Christ without the Holy Spirit? I do not believe that it is possible.

    Instead, I believe the restrainer is the Archangel Michael. He is the shield of Israel. At a time, he will be removed so that the antichrist can rise to power.

    But even if it is not Michael, I still believe that the restrainer is a shield of protection from God, that must be removed before the abomination of desolations rises. I believe that this happened, just prior to 9-11-01. Since that time, I believe that the antichrist has been rising in power, though as of yet, I do not know who he is.

    Just my two cents.

    John
     
  6. FreeinChrist

    FreeinChrist CF Staff Trainer Staff Member Administrator CF Staff Trainer Supporter

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    I am pretrib, and believe the Restrainer is the holy Spirit - but I don't believe He is removed. The Holy Spirit was here prior to the Day of Pentecost, but His role changed to a degree that day in that he now indwells all believers.

    And what is being restrained? I beleive it is the appearance of the Antichrist.

    2Th 2:7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains {will do so} until he is taken out of the way.

    2Th 2:8 Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming;




    God predetermined the end from the beginning, and knows when it is time to let the AC appear.

    Isa 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, And from ancient times things which have not been done, Saying, 'My purpose will be established, And I will accomplish all My good pleasure';

    Isa 46:11 Calling a bird of prey from the east, The man of My purpose from a far country. Truly I have spoken; truly I will bring it to pass. I have planned {it, surely} I will do it.
     
  7. Justme

    Justme Senior Veteran

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    Hi Free,

    So is the antichrist a person?

    Justme
     
  8. good4u

    good4u <font color="darkblue"><font size="3"><b><i><font

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    We have been over this a million times, for the millionth and one time ---it is NOT the Holy Spirit. It is Michael, the arcangel, the Great Protector of Israel. Who to this day restrains Satan from destroying Israel.

    ***********

    To those who believe it is the Holy Spirit:

    God will not remove what one does not have and Israel does not have the Holy Spirit. That is the entire point of the tribulation by Satan and the seventieth week which is to prevent Israel from her national salvation as God had promised to her.
     
  9. FreeinChrist

    FreeinChrist CF Staff Trainer Staff Member Administrator CF Staff Trainer Supporter

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    well, I don't buy that at all. the entire point of the tribulation (the 70th week) is bring Israel to repentence and to Jesus Christ. It is God that determines the time, it is Jesus who breaks the seal, it is God's angels who sound the trumpets, and God's angels who pour out the vials. And more are reached than just Israel. I don't see Michael as the Restrainer at all - he is no ho katechon. And what is removed is His restraining - not His presence.
     
  10. Witness.

    Witness. New Member

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    I think a better reason for the tribulation is summed up in this:

    Rev. 22:11 "Let the one who does wrong, still do wrong; and the one who is filthy, still be filthy; and let the one who is righteous still practice righteousness; and the one who is holy, still keep himself holy."

    The tribulation is the final summation of man's wickedness, and righteousness through faith in Christ. Once it is complete, there will be no room to argue with God on His righteous judgement, because all of the wickedness of sinful man, and Satan's works, will have been complete.

    John
     
  11. good4u

    good4u <font color="darkblue"><font size="3"><b><i><font

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    Excuse me, but exactly what is the difference? You make absolutely no sense. Listen to yourself.

    If Michael is not restraining, why would he just stand by and watch the action? Is that a gracious God to you? No. Michael is removed from the scene until the trial is complete. It makes logicial sense.

    We have been down this road, FIC. I am just not going to do this with you again.
     
  12. FreeinChrist

    FreeinChrist CF Staff Trainer Staff Member Administrator CF Staff Trainer Supporter

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    That is good. It is a last call to choose. But I still think the main purpose is to brng Israel to Christ and complete the goals of the 70 weeks. :)
     
  13. FreeinChrist

    FreeinChrist CF Staff Trainer Staff Member Administrator CF Staff Trainer Supporter

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    I think you are the one who isn't making sense.
    Michael isn't restraining yhe appearance of the Antichrist - and nothing says he is. At the Tribulation, he will arise to fight for Israel:


    Dan 12:1 "Now at that time Michael, the great prince who stands {guard} over the sons of your people, will arise. And there will be a time of distress such as never occurred since there was a nation until that time; and at that time your people, everyone who is found written in the book, will be rescued.

    Dan 12:2 "Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace {and} everlasting contempt.


    Nothing is here indicating that Michael is removed. Michael is not 'ho katechon' - the Restrainer. Michael is a created being, an angel, and is not omnipotent like God. He cannot be everywhere, and that is needed to restrain as there are many antichrists frm which the one Antichrist can arise from.


    Probably wise of you.
     
  14. Palatka44

    Palatka44 Unabashedly Baptist

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    2 Thessalonians 2:7-10
    7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
    8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
    9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
    10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
    What is the subject of verse 7? The mystery of iniquity. When the mystery is revealed it is taken out of the way.
    Verse 8 states that then that Wicked will be revealed, open to the eyes of men.

    When you begin to read a mystery novel its plot remains a mystery untill the ending. Untill the ending is reached one can only guess as to who or what the mystery is. At the ending the mystery is removed and the true character is revealed to the reader. He is the "Phantom" that is the mystery. Once his cloak of mystery is removed and "taken out of the way" he is identified to the reader as the theif, murderer or all around bad guy at the end of the book.

    Now at the end of all that is written in God's Word we are poised to witness the unveiling of this mystery man that will oppose God and try to doom the human race with him.
     
  15. MC1171611

    MC1171611 Senior Member

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    The Bible is clearly talking about the Holy Ghost here. Now, when I'm through, You all are going to label me as a heretic, but I have Bible for every one of my beliefs.

    The Holy Spirit came to dwell in Believers first at Pentecost. Today we are saved by Grace through Faith, not of works. Period. (if you have a problem with this, PM me) Now, to make everybody mad, Jerry Jenkins and Tim Lahaye were used of Satan to bring "great delusion" upon the people that will go through the Tribulation.

    My reason is: look at Jesus' teachings. Never does He mention getting to Heaven by Grace alone. He told the rich young ruler to sell his stuff-works. He went about teaching "the Gospel of the Kingdom."

    Matt. 4:23 ¶ And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.
    Matt. 9:35 ¶ And Jesus went about all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every sickness and every disease among the people.
    Matt. 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
    Mark 1:14 ¶ Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,

    Now, this is going to mess some of you all up. Christ was teaching Jews; according to the prophetical time clock (forget about Isaiah and Psalms; the Jews had no idea that their Messiah was going to die) the Tribulation would come right after Christ. The only reason that Salvation came to the Gentiles (us) is because the Jews rejected Him as was foretold.

    Matt. 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
    Mark 13:13 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

    Also in Revelation it is taught that people who take the mark of the Beast and worship his image will go to Hell. That is why the Holy Ghost is gone; Grace through Faith is no longer available! The Holy Spirit will still be on the earth, He just won't be dwelling in the Spirits of the saved, because there won't be anyone that is "saved."

    PM me if you have a problem with any of this.
     
  16. FreeinChrist

    FreeinChrist CF Staff Trainer Staff Member Administrator CF Staff Trainer Supporter

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    MC1171611, there are many things off iin your post. and you are being very defensive.

    "Now, to make everybody mad, Jerry Jenkins and Tim Lahaye were used of Satan to bring "great delusion" upon the people that will go through the Tribulation."

    I am not sure that it will make everybody mad at all. I think you are off on the "great delusion". It is not sent by Satan.
    2Th 2:11 For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false,

    2Th 2:12 in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.

    GOD is the one who sends the "great delusion" and it is sent on those who have rejected God and His truth, and are NOT saved. It wouldn't inlcude the message of salvation so that people are brought to Christ.

    So I don't think your view is so based on scripture as you think.
     
  17. MC1171611

    MC1171611 Senior Member

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    What isn't based on Scripture? The part that disagrees with your pre-concieved ideas? First, you need to get the Bible. Not just a Bible; THE Bible. Your version makes stuff so hard to understand. The "great delusion" is that people will think that they can get saved by Grace through Faith in the Tribulation, when they definitely cannot. Satan works into God's plan, mainly because he has to get permission from God before he can do anything; therefore God is the one who brings the delusion: He uses Satan who in part uses the Left Behind series. Now, they aren't bad books, they just aren't Scriptural, and the delusion will come in part from their influence on the lost people in the Tribulation.

    By the way, I don't care if you don't think that my post is based on scripture; GIVE ME SOME BIBLE, for goodness sake!
     
  18. FreeinChrist

    FreeinChrist CF Staff Trainer Staff Member Administrator CF Staff Trainer Supporter

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    You claimed that Satan used Jenkins and LeHaye to send the "great delusion" - but scripture clearly says it is sent by God, and sent on those who rejected the truth (which is Christ) and pleasure in wickedness. Your view does not fit scripture.
    As to I need to bit about I need to get the Bible - GET REAL! My view fits the Greek just fine!

    KJV -
    2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

    2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

    Note the "God shall send them strong delusion".


    I gave you scripture - you fail to see what is clearly written!
     
  19. MC1171611

    MC1171611 Senior Member

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    The Greek is not the Word of God! Do you speak Greek? No? Then is God powerful enough to give us His Perfect word in our language? If He is, then did He? If not, then why not? If He did, then which version is it, when all but the KJV use corrupted manuscripts from the Vatican?

    I already answered the thing about God using Satan that used the books. Any problems with that?
     
  20. Palatka44

    Palatka44 Unabashedly Baptist

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    As a mystery is written it is the author that "lets" the mystery unfold untill he desides to unveil or take it away and he will let it continue to mystify the reader untill he desides when the end is. Then the mystery is removed or taken away.
    Sense God is the author of the book it is he who will let that Wicked be reveiled and thus remove the mystery as to who that Wicked one is.

    It is not the Holy Spirit that is taken out it is the mystery of iniquity that is taken out of the way.
     
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