Once Saved, Always Saved?

[דוד חֵן (David)]

You apparently see a problem where there is none. Perhaps it is because you do not see yourself like the prostitutes and the tax collectors and see yourself as somehow better than they are. That is false. We all fall short. This is the word of God.

The other issue that you apparently have not taken into account, is time. Time is an illusion, part of the creation, part of our fallen status...which God is above. If we then are born (again) of God, we are indeed saved from the curse of time, raised up, and with God, One with God. This is salvation.

Remaining in the world, though saved (born again) is what is referred to in scripture as "he who had his right foot on the sea, and his left foot on the land" Revelation 10:2. This is an image of Christ having been raised up, but also living within us upon the earth. We are in Him, and He in us - we reign with Him during this time. During such a time, we are "sealed" "in Him" and "dead to our old nature."

If you do not know these things, then your reign with Christ during these times is of little profit (in slumber), limited to what Christ does in you without your knowledge...and yet more profitable if you know this. Nonetheless, whether you are aware or unaware, the times are prolonged that all should be saved, whom the Lord has chosen.

God bless.

Time is part of creation. Read Genesis 1. It is not an illusion. God created this universe with physics.

"the evening and the morning were the first day."

 

[ScottA]

Time is part of creation. Read Genesis 1. It is not an illusion. God created this universe with physics.

"the evening and the morning were the first day."

The key word here, is "created." Define it as you will, but in the simplest of terms, it means "made up."

Nonetheless, do not marvel in what is made: The world is passing away, and all that remains...is above the realm of time.

 

[ScottA]

Another reason I don't believe in once saved, always saved, no matter how a person lives his life.

The matter is one of impossibility...

If I say that I am saved, and then I find myself unsaved later in life...I was simply wrong about being saved.

But even if we incorrectly use the word, Christ has made it clear:

John 10:29
My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand.

By this definition, to be saved, is to be in God's hands (not in Satan's hands, not the world's, and not ours).

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

The matter is one of impossibility...

If I say that I am saved, and then I find myself unsaved later in life...I was simply wrong about being saved.

But even if we incorrectly use the word, Christ has made it clear:

John 10:29
My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand.

By this definition, to be saved, is to be in God's hands (not in Satan's hands, not the world's, and not ours).

It would seem that way, and seems so to a lot of people who find out on JUDGMENT DAY otherwise. As it is written in YHWH'S WORD ALSO.

Just because it seems that way to some of many,
doesn't make it so,
especially since it seems that they thus ignore the rest of YHWH'S WORD in order
to not believe or obey HIM fully.
THus, HIS JUDGMENT is JUST, RIGHTEOUS, PERFECT and COMPLETE.

HE won't save anyone against their will,
even after they are saved. HIS PROMISE IS PERMANENT and in place and unchangeable.
But HE WON'T OVERRIDE HIS OWN GIFT of FREE WILL to anyone. IF they do not love HIM any more,
if they DECIDE to willfully turn away from HIM and to trample underfoot HIS PRECIOUSNESS
after being a recipient of HIS GRACE,
then they are gone.
HE lets them go,
just as Y'SHUA did in the NT.

 

[Wordkeeper]

You apparently see a problem where there is none. Perhaps it is because you do not see yourself like the prostitutes and the tax collectors and see yourself as somehow better than they are. That is false. We all fall short. This is the word of God.

The other issue that you apparently have not taken into account, is time. Time is an illusion, part of the creation, part of our fallen status...which God is above. If we then are born (again) of God, we are indeed saved from the curse of time, raised up, and with God, One with God. This is salvation.

Remaining in the world, though saved (born again) is what is referred to in scripture as "he who had his right foot on the sea, and his left foot on the land" Revelation 10:2. This is an image of Christ having been raised up, but also living within us upon the earth. We are in Him, and He in us - we reign with Him during this time. During such a time, we are "sealed" "in Him" and "dead to our old nature."

If you do not know these things, then your reign with Christ during these times is of little profit (in slumber), limited to what Christ does in you without your knowledge...and yet more profitable if you know this. Nonetheless, whether you are aware or unaware, the times are prolonged that all should be saved, whom the Lord has chosen.

God bless.

I see you spend your free time commenting on the web pages of authors who write romantic novels. You seem to have a very wide range of interests...

Don't spread yourself too thin.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=597306527033672

Screen shot

 

[ScottA]

HE won't save anyone against their will,
even after they are saved.

You are not hearing your own words. "Saved" is a word that means saved...not maybe saved or maybe not.

Everyone who begins to follow Christ is not saved, but when and if they ever are - "no one can snatch them for the hand of God", not even themselves.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

not even themselves.

Yes, I heard you....
There's a difference of opinion here,
and YHWH never said HE will keep anyone in heaven against their will.

 

[ScottA]

Yes, I heard you....
There's a difference of opinion here,
and YHWH never said HE will keep anyone in heaven against their will.

No... This is not multiple choice, but rather yes (saved), or no (not saved). Sorry, but God is of only One opinion.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

No... This is not multiple choice, but rather yes (saved), or no (not saved). Sorry, but God is of only One opinion.

I realize you are in that 'rut' so to speak. That is common. No offense given nor taken.

 

[spiritman]

The matter is one of impossibility...

If I say that I am saved, and then I find myself unsaved later in life...I was simply wrong about being saved.

But even if we incorrectly use the word, Christ has made it clear:

John 10:29
My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand.

By this definition, to be saved, is to be in God's hands (not in Satan's hands, not the world's, and not ours).

No one is able to snatch them out of God's hand if they continue to the end. Re 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Jesus is stating that He can remove someone's name out of the book of life if they do not overcome in this life.

Mt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

In order to make it into heaven one must endure and overcome to the end.

John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

The mood for the word "perish" in the Greek is subjunctive. That means it's contingent. Contingent on what? Following Christ, verse 27.

 

[trinichristiannudist]

I am on my job now so I can't respond as I would like to, but I will say this. When Jesus said," Ye MUST be BORN AGAIN to inherit the Kingdom of God"(John 3), he only would confirm what Paul the Apostle said decades later in Romans 7 where ," he that hath not the SPIRIT OF CHRIST are NONE of his". Even showing in John 15 the importance of abiding in HIS SPIRIT. To be Born Again may not necessarily be the requisite to salvation, but it is the standard by which God's people achieve new life n Christ!

 

[ScottA]

No one is able to snatch them out of God's hand if they continue to the end. Re 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Jesus is stating that He can remove someone's name out of the book of life if they do not overcome in this life.

Mt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

In order to make it into heaven one must endure and overcome to the end.

John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

The mood for the word "perish" in the Greek is subjunctive. That means it's contingent. Contingent on what? Following Christ, verse 27.

You have described yet another impossibility, as if one could do anything to save themselves. No - the saving is all done by Christ. He is "the End" in the verses you quoted...and "It is finished."

 

[spiritman]

You have described yet another impossibility, as if one could do anything to save themselves. No - the saving is all done by Christ. He is "the End" in the verses you quoted...and "It is finished."

Would you care to elaborate on Rev 3:5 and explain where you see any mention of Jesus being "the end" in that verse?
Re 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Do you understand what it means to have one's name blotted out of the book of life?

 

[ScottA]

Would you care to elaborate on Rev 3:5 and explain where you see any mention of Jesus being "the end" in that verse?
Re 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Do you understand what it means to have one's name blotted out of the book of life?

That is not the verse you quoted with "the End" mentioned. Nonetheless, there is no "overcometh" without Christ (the End). By no means does the verse suggest that "we" do our own "overcoming."

 

[bbbbbbb]

Would you care to elaborate on Rev 3:5 and explain where you see any mention of Jesus being "the end" in that verse?
Re 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Do you understand what it means to have one's name blotted out of the book of life?

Of course, anyone who knows anything about Judaism knows what the book of life is. It is the book which God keeps regarding those who will live and those who will die in a particular year. At the Day of Atonement God opens His book and blots out the names of those who will die in the coming year. Earnest prayers in the synagogues are offered to God that their particular names will not be blotted out and that they will have yet another year of life on this earth.

 

[spiritman]

You have described yet another impossibility, as if one could do anything to save themselves. No - the saving is all done by Christ. He is "the End" in the verses you quoted...and "It is finished."

Jesus speaking, states in the verse that one's name is already written in the Book of Life and if he doesn't overcome his name will be blotted out. If his name is already listed in the Book of Life then would he not be saved? There is no mention or suggestion of one saving himself in Rev 3:5 as you purport.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Jesus speaking, states in the verse that one's name is already written in the Book of Life and if he doesn't overcome his name will be blotted out. If his name is already listed in the Book of Life then would he not be saved?

Not only this, as you have said, confirming this on the other side;

when YHWH created the place to throw satan and his rebellious angels in,
HE created it just so big, big enough to hold only them.

Later, as people volunteered, YHWH enlarged (enlarges)
the place to accommodate them.

 

[spiritman]

That is not the verse you quoted with "the End" mentioned. Nonetheless, there is no "overcometh" without Christ (the End). By no means does the verse suggest that "we" do our own "overcoming."

Did I mention one could overcome without Christ? Does the verse state one cannot overcome without Christ? Your assertions are baseless regarding Rev 3:5 and it's context.

Jesus states, "he that overcomes" will not have his name blotted out of the Book of Life. Overcomes what?
Would Jesus expect an unbeliever to overcome? Would Jesus expect a believer to overcome?

2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

 

[spiritman]

Of course, anyone who knows anything about Judaism knows what the book of life is. It is the book which God keeps regarding those who will live and those who will die in a particular year. At the Day of Atonement God opens His book and blots out the names of those who will die in the coming year. Earnest prayers in the synagogues are offered to God that their particular names will not be blotted out and that they will have yet another year of life on this earth.

Any scriptural references?

 

[ScottA]

Did I mention one could overcome without Christ? Does the verse state one cannot overcome without Christ? Your assertions are baseless regarding Rev 3:5 and it's context.

Jesus states, "he that overcomes" will not have his name blotted out of the Book of Life. Overcomes what?
Would Jesus expect an unbeliever to overcome? Would Jesus expect a believer to overcome?

2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

You made your exhortation of overcoming one of putting the burden on the saved, rather than on Christ whom borne the burden for all...and even now you do not define overcoming as only by Christ, but only refer to the matter so far as the "knowledge" of Christ.

Thus my point: The topic here is not coming to the "knowledge" of Christ, which is [only] the Beginning. That is not a proper definition of what it means to be "saved." No...the topic is that of having [already] been "saved", which is the End.