on becoming a christian over and over again...

[dms1972]

He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life. He has all the answers to whatever you need to know. That old doubtful nature tries to block that.

Our Lord bless you and keep you, make His Face to shine upon you, and give you peace.

There does seem to be a barrier of communication between some christians and non-christians, and I think I sort of understand it, but I am not sure I can explain it. It has to do with the matter of evidence. People really if they are interested have to research it and I see people asking "what evidence convinced you?" Its a fair enough question, but the difficulty remains as long as one is within the enlightenment framework so to speak. Now the fidests are in sense also, so they can't really answer at that point? The questioner has to be open to revelation, as well as evidence and only God can bring that about.

The real issue is that some speak as believing on the basis of the evidence and they don't they just believe.

So basically thats how i understand some of the discussions - some christians are bible believers but they talk about evidence. They have believed first on the word of the Bible, looked for evidence later. So basically that the Bible says it is what has convinced them, they believe on its authority.

 

[dms1972]

I was hoping he would.

May I ask why? If you don't wish me asking any further questions please say.

 

[katerinah1947]

May I ask why? If you don't wish me asking any further questions please say.

Hi,

I liked him. There were many reasons why.

He was kind.

He was mystical.

When He talked about God, it was as though he knew him personally. No one else talked like that.

Later I would learn, that to listen to men or women who are hurtful verbally, is to listen to one that talks about God, but who does not know Him. Father Matt was never hurtful or rough verbally or in his actions.

One day, Father Matt is late or an appointment. He starts driving. He will arrive, If I remember twenty minutes late.

This is in North Dakota, then for him. He worked near Fargo. As he is driving he always prays on something called a rosary. It is his habit, to do so.

As he is driving, things don't look right after awhile. At some point he realized, much of the road he was supposed to be seing was not there. Instead he was much further south than was possible logically, as we normally experience things.

He shortly saw his destination, and pulled in. He was a few to several minutes early arriving.....then. Much of the road he did not have to travel on. Somehow his car just moved several several miles without him initially being aware of that.

He was married, before he became a priest.

He worked in a television studio, and way before he ever became a priest, he would get dreams or visions of a TV picture, and in it he was a priest. Never did he suspect those dreams would come true.

He was a retired priest, but worked anyway, saying weekday Masses. He did Confessions also.

He had the time to talk to people like me, in coffee shops. He was not all business. He was personable and approachable.

His marriage fell apart for some reason or another. He stayed close to his children I think. He moved close to his children when he retired.

His Parkinson's was getting worse, and he never complained.

The guys loved him, even the national college baseball coach, was there frequently visiting him.

He played golf once a week with the guys, no matter what.

Those guys loved him.

Years have passed since his death, still the golf, and I think everyone else remembers him.

The man was sweet.

After his marriage fell apart, he read something, and then went on to the priesthood.

Painting was his hobby.

Working for God was His life, and more.

There is maybe some more.

LOVE,
...Mary., .... .

 

[dms1972]

[Edit - I am uncertain about what you describe. In Bible and christian theology speaks of the bride of Christ. I don't think I am able to explain this, and I think too many (on this site and elsewhere) think they understand these and other things when they don't - thats my impression from time to time. I think we cannot understand a lot of the Bible at first, and when we think we do, we are getting ourselves (and perhaps others) into difficulties. I know from my own experience I have tried to understand things before I was ready.

SOme people won't accept what the bible says until christians can prove it scientifically, so to speak. There is a blockage. But I think attempting to prove the Bible scientifically is the wrong approach. Thats my thinking on it at the moment.

Christians (some of them well known ones) have said things in the past about certainty and proof and such, and they, (and other who are influenced by them) feel they have demonstrate this in some rational way.

I am sorry I questioned you. And hope I haven't made things confusing.[edit]

 

[katerinah1947]

I find the whole thing difficult to understand. Maybe there is some sense to it, I don't know. Maybe I am insane myself.

Hi,
With those words I now suspect much about you.
Some of these questions should be true.
You have a nice education.
Money is not really a problem for you.
For the most part life is fun.
You have good health.
You have never been impoverished.
You are your own man.
You direct your life.
You are respected.
Your parents might be somebody.
Academically you have few problems.
LOVE,
...Mary., ... .

 

[dms1972]

It seems to me that maybe you draw too much of your inspiration to believe in Jesus from christianity.

Perhaps, but even the church I was going to a few years ago, was doing a course called "christianity explored". Its a newish course. I did, and do feel that is the wrong thing to explore.

 

[dms1972]

With those words I now suspect much about you.
Some of these questions should be true.
You have a nice education.
Money is not really a problem for you.
For the most part life is fun.
You have good health.
You have never been impoverished.
You are your own man.
You direct your life.
You are respected.
Your parents might be somebody.
Academically you have few problems.

[Edit] they are all rather general statements (not questions) inaccurate and open to a degree of interpretation. I don't wish to get into them....

 

[katerinah1947]

No sorry, most of that is untrue, but its rather general anyway. I am not really sure why you are doing this? But no, you really don't know much if anything about me. And I wonder why you are digging?

Well I got to go, I started a thread looking for some help but you kind of took it over.

Hi,

I will be happy to leave you. I thought I was just answereing your questions, before you peaked my interest, with a statement of yours.

You now own your thread again. I am unsubscribing for you.

LOVE,
...Mary., .... .

 

[Hospes]

dms,

Just wanting to understand your situation: do you have a substantial relationship with a person who is a mature, passionate, and thoughtful follower of Jesus Christ. (I think your comment about not finding a church prompts this question.)

Of course, I recognize it is perfectly alright if you choose to not answer.

 

[bling]

Where are you getting all this? Is this your thinking?

I like you do not trust commentaries, so these are my thoughts and experiences on the matter.

 

[dms1972]

I like you do not trust commentaries, so these are my thoughts and experiences on the matter.

What makes you think i don't trust commentaries?

I use commentaries from time to time because I don't think I should trust my own understanding, or at least read what others say also.

 

[dcalling]

dms1972,
I was an atheist for a long time, and after a while after I realized there is no way we can be self aware by nature, I decided to go with the Christian faith (at the time all my friends are Christians). Later I got lost and went to Buddhism, then went back to a church after found it is impossible to do that by my strength alone. I was not sure who I was then, but somehow God keeps getting me back.

Then one day during a group study, someone asked what's the most important law of been a Christian, and someone else said it is "Love God and love your neighbor as yourself", which struck me. It has to be a true commandment from God, and with my earlier study of the Bible, with all the evidences (about Israel, the impossible survive of the early Christians, that Jesus only spent 3.5 years on earth yet have such an impact), I became a true Christian.

After that I became a real Christian. There are still ups and downs, one biggest struggle is when I started to study Islam, but God shows the truth to me with all the struggles, either in life or in faith. Today I am still having ups and downs (i.e. I got lazy and don't want to go to church or prayer meetings), but I know I am saved, and I try my best to apply all the Christian values in my daily lives. Thank God

So basically I am not like some of my friends, who got touched by God and they cried, and got an easy pass, to some of us it is a long process of logical thinking, in-sureness, and a process to ditch our old self and accept God.

 

[Winken]

Let's all go with trusting the Holy Spirit for our thoughts, behaviors, feelings, speech, replies, precious memories ..... to do otherwise is to trust the "self," and that is a dead-end street. How many times have I looked back and said "Why did I do that? or "Why did I say that? or "How could I have engaged in ______ behavior?" HE wants me to look to who He is and what He has done for me.

When the self attempts to tune in, take a split-split-split second to say "Jesus." Then just think, behave, feel, speak, reply, add to precious memories, as He leads. A simple "Forgive me, Lord," moves mountains.

Ever notice how a baby just grins and listens for the first couple of years? Then words are formed, become sentences, become beautiful exchanges with parents, siblings, grand-parents, others.

Listen. Hear Him. Enjoy beautiful exchanges.

 

[dms1972]

Let's all go with trusting the Holy Spirit for our thoughts, behaviors, feelings, speech, replies, precious memories ..... to do otherwise is to trust the "self," and that is a dead-end street.

How can I be sure I am in touch with the Holy Spirit (in the Biblical sense)? I have a theology book on the Holy Spirit, and it says something about the blood being first.

Theologians speak of the need for the Word and Spirit. Historically thats been the emphasis, but we just think we can jump in a give an answer.

Unfortunately some like to think at times they are the one to solve a problem, and they are not. This goes for me also.

 

[Winken]

How can I be sure I am in touch with the Holy Spirit (in the Biblical sense)? I have a theology book on the Holy Spirit, and it says something about the blood being first.

Theologians speak of the need for the Word and Spirit. Historically thats been the emphasis, but we just think we can jump in a give an answer.

Unfortunately some like to think at times they are the one to solve a problem, and they are not. This goes for me also.

You need to re-read each of my posts. YOU are never the problem-solver. The Holy Spirit is. You can be sure you are in touch with Him when you answer His call to accept Jesus as your Savior. You look to doubt, to questions, to curiosity instead of doing that. The scriptures are right there, right in front of you. John 14:6, John 3:16-17, John 3:3, John 5:24, Romans 10:8-13. Read those, receive Him as your Savior, then turn to Ephesians 2:8-9. You don't get there by reading religious books or theological treatises about the Holy Spirit.

Christianity is NOT a religion. Never was, is not now, and never will be. It is a personal, one-on-one relationship with Jesus as Savior. Read the above scriptures, enter into that one-on-one relationship. INSTANTLY you are indwellt by the Holy Spirit. HE is in touch with you. You are sustained by God's Amazing Grace through Faith. Don't turn the page now, and start doubting, questioning, curiosity again. Lean not to your own understanding. HE becomes your understanding. You and the Holy Spirit are together forever.

 

[dms1972]

Your post appeared after I'd written this:

Any way thank you all for trying to help I think thats its maybe not the best thing to be trying to understand further at this point, it may be counterproductive.

 

[Winken]

ANy way thank you all for trying to help I think thats its maybe not a the best thing to be trying to understand further at this point, it may be counterproductive.

Next time you "tune in" read Post #55 again.

Be blessed as you do.

 

[dms1972]

Read the above scriptures, enter into that one-on-one relationship. INSTANTLY you are indwellt by the Holy Spirit. HE is in touch with you.

But God has to be working - I mean its his timing right?

My guess is when I was young I heard someone shouting a bit about "hell" and it made me anxious - I think that the problem.

 

[Winken]

But God has to be working - I mean its his timing right?

God does not cease to work. The timing is always His. He is speaking to you now, inviting you to live forever. Just trust Him and say each of those scriptures, out loud. You just point your mouse at them and they pop right up.

 

[Troy Rambo]

this is a bit difficult to explain, but I feel that over the course of my life I have become a christian repeatedly, the usual prayed the 'sinner's prayer', or come back again...I'll be honest I have always had doubts about my 'conversions'.

I think it goes back to early attempts at trying to become a christian. I have tried to resolve the problem theologically, philosophically, psychologically and pretty much any way I can think of.

I understand by the bible and theology there really should only be one christian initiation in life. One either is or isn't born-again.

But I can't understand my 'christian experience' which is very deficient, and lacking in assurance, if I am truly born-again.

Again I have heard many ways of explaining this kind of thing...and read many theological treatises on it. Some try to explain it as like a man on a plane who is anxious about flying, whereas others are not, and enjoy the flight. This doesn't really help because well - one might not be aboard.

I feel I am at times making my own theology to explain my deficient christian experience.

Is becoming a christian like boarding a plane, and is the christian life like relaxing and enjoying the flight?

So I don't know really am I a christian, or not, sometimes I feel I am, but feelings don't really answer the problem entirely because one can feel false sense of assurance too.

It could be my theology thats the problem, it could be that christians themselves disagree a bit on these issues.

I just feel even a christian (if I am one) very fragmented, or something.

If one's assurance comes merely from believing oneself to be a christian, isn't that dangerous?

I think the best way to realize that you are a Christian is to seek a relationship with God. This is done by constant prayer, meditation, and being involved in church. Keep your mind on God. I talk to God like a person talking to themselves. I know He's there and listening. Now He doesnt talk back, at least not directly, but I dont let that discourage me.

Now Ive had many relapses over the years. So like a relationship with a person, I got discouraged with God and stop[ed talking to Him. But after a while, you start to realize that you were wrong and want to restart the relationship again.