Old Testament Diet - Was God being a Bully?

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I try to keep my diet as biblical as I can...

1. No pork
2. I deem beef and buffalo as biblical. I love making dishes with buffalo such as spaghetti
3. Fresh fruit and vegetables are good!

I do not think that God was being a bully when he wrote the dietary standards of the Old Testament. Bacon is high is saturated fat and cannot be good for the arteries. We have a local pizzeria that serves beef pepperoni on their pizzas, which I think as a good idea. God did not command us also to put all those chemicals in foods, which I also believe work against our physical system. The principle use of the chemical azodicarbonamide is in the manufacture of plastics, specifically as a blowing agent. The US uses it as a dough conditioner and a bleaching agent in its breads. As a food additive azodicarbonamide is not authorized in Australia and the EU. Subway removed this chemical from their bread last year...

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money...oga-mat-chemical-almost-out-of-bread/7587787/

My grandparents and I use to plant garden and there is nothing that tastes so good as food fresh out of the garden. Back in those August days we would eat well out of the garden and have Sunday meals with just garden vegetables.Fresh red potatoes so tender that you can peel them with your hand, tomatoes, corn on the cob, cucumbers in apple cider vinegar, fresh homemade bread, green beans with just a hint of sugar, along with fresh home made tea... Mmmm! Mmmm!
 

Strong in Him

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I try to keep my diet as biblical as I can...

1. No pork
2. I deem beef and buffalo as biblical. I love making dishes with buffalo such as spaghetti
3. Fresh fruit and vegetables are good!

If that's the diet you want; go for it.

I do not think that God was being a bully when he wrote the dietary standards of the Old Testament.

No of course he wasn't being a bully, but neither was he writing these laws to us. So there's nothing wrong with pork, ham or bacon occasionally. I like bacon with macaroni cheese and roast pork with apple sauce.
The OT also says no shellfish, of course.
 
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Soyeong

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I try to keep my diet as biblical as I can...

1. No pork
2. I deem beef and buffalo as biblical. I love making dishes with buffalo such as spaghetti
3. Fresh fruit and vegetables are good!

I do not think that God was being a bully when he wrote the dietary standards of the Old Testament. Bacon is high is saturated fat and cannot be good for the arteries. We have a local pizzeria that serves beef pepperoni on their pizzas, which I think as a good idea. God did not command us also to put all those chemicals in foods, which I also believe work against our physical system. The principle use of the chemical azodicarbonamide is in the manufacture of plastics, specifically as a blowing agent. The US uses it as a dough conditioner and a bleaching agent in its breads. As a food additive azodicarbonamide is not authorized in Australia and the EU. Subway removed this chemical from their bread last year...

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money...oga-mat-chemical-almost-out-of-bread/7587787/

My grandparents and I use to plant garden and there is nothing that tastes so good as food fresh out of the garden. Back in those August days we would eat well out of the garden and have Sunday meals with just garden vegetables.Fresh red potatoes so tender that you can peel them with your hand, tomatoes, corn on the cob, cucumbers in apple cider vinegar, fresh homemade bread, green beans with just a hint of sugar, along with fresh home made tea... Mmmm! Mmmm!

God did not command any of His laws to trap us or to bully us, but rather they are all for our good. Certain animals were given by God to be eaten as food and certain animals were not, and this corresponds accross the board night and day with their toxicity levels, so I think God wanted us to eat a healthy diet, but I don't think that was God's only reason for commanding us to obey dietary laws.
 
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Strong in Him

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I think God wanted us to eat a healthy diet, but I don't think that was God's only reason for commanding us to obey dietary laws.

He didn't command us at all, though. Those laws were given to the Israelites at Mt. Sinai, not to Gentiles. The early church did not insist that Gentiles obey Jewish food laws to be saved, and didn't teach that Christians should abstain from pork.
 
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Soyeong

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He didn't command us at all, though. Those laws were given to the Israelites at Mt. Sinai, not to Gentiles. The early church did not insist that Gentiles obey Jewish food laws to be saved, and didn't teach that Christians should abstain from pork.

God's laws apply to God's people and Gentiles are now included as part of God's people (1 Peter 2:9-10). The Gentiles were taught to keep the laws of Moses every Sabbath in the synagogues (Acts 15:21). Saying that you don't need to keep God's laws in order to be saved is worlds apart from saying that you don't need to keep God's laws - that was never the purpose for why they were given. Rather, God's laws were about the righteous code of conduct that He wants His people to have as we live out our lives as lights to the nations (Deuteronomy 4:5-8).
 
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Strong in Him

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God's laws apply to God's people and Gentiles are now included as part of God's people (1 Peter 2:9-10). The Gentiles were taught to keep the laws of Moses every Sabbath in the synagogues (Acts 15:21).

The food laws were given to the Israelites as part of the old, Mosaic covenant. When the people showed that they were unable to keep this, God spoke through Jeremiah and said that he would make a new covenant, (Jeremiah 31:31-34). This covenant was sealed by the Lord Jesus, with his blood, (Matthew 26:28.)
Hebrews says that where there is a new covenant, the old one is obsolete.

Jesus said that it's not the food that goes into our mouths that makes us unclean, but what comes out of it. The early church didn't teach the food laws to Gentiles.

Rather, God's laws were about the righteous code of conduct that He wants His people to have as we live out our lives as lights to the nations (Deuteronomy 4:5-8).

The Jews were the light to the nations; we are light to the world, and can have Jesus - the true light - actually living in us. Jesus is our righteousness and makes us Holy.

If you obey one law you have to obey all of them - not wearing mixed fabrics, circumcision, women unclean at certain times, etc, etc.
We are not under law now, we are in Christ Jesus.
 
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Soyeong

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The food laws were given to the Israelites as part of the old, Mosaic covenant. When the people showed that they were unable to keep this, God spoke through Jeremiah and said that he would make a new covenant, (Jeremiah 31:31-34). This covenant was sealed by the Lord Jesus, with his blood, (Matthew 26:28.)
Hebrews says that where there is a new covenant, the old one is obsolete.

While I agree that the Old Covenant is obsolete, there is a difference between a covenant agreement to obey God's law and God's law, which is based on God's character and holy, righteous, and good standard, and which exists independently of any covenant to follow it. So even if God had made no covenants with us, we should still have a holy, righteous, and good conduct. As you quoted from Jeremiah, the New Covenant involves God writing His law on our hearts, so there is not a change between covenants in the basic law structure. God's instructions for how to have a holy, righteous, and good conduct remained the same.

Jesus said that it's not the food that goes into our mouths that makes us unclean, but what comes out of it. The early church didn't teach the food laws to Gentiles.

The context of Jesus' discussion was about man-made ritual purity laws that said if something that was clean came into contact with something that was unclean, then it became common or defiled (Mark 7:3-4), so Jesus was only speaking against man-made ritual purity laws and not God's dietary laws. His statement in Matthew 15:20 makes it clear that he never switched topics to talking about dietary laws.

For at least the first seven years after the Messiah's ascension up until Peter's vision in Acts 10, all Christians were Torah observant Jews, and this practice continued with Gentile inclusion because it is just as important for Gentiles to have a holy, righteous, and good conduct as it is for the Jews (1 Peter 1:13-16). The extent that Gentiles eventually did abandon God's Torah, is the extent to which they were wicked (Psalms 119:53) and lawless (1 John 3:4-10).

The Jews were the light to the nations; we are light to the world, and can have Jesus - the true light - actually living in us. Jesus is our righteousness and makes us Holy.

If you obey one law you have to obey all of them - not wearing mixed fabrics, circumcision, women unclean at certain times, etc, etc.
We are not under law now, we are in Christ Jesus.

A light to the nations and a light to the world are two different ways of saying the same thing. I would agree that having a holy conduct doesn't make us holy and that it is God who makes us holy, but those God had made holy are called to have a holy conduct. If we want to know how to have a holy conduct, then we need to look up God's instructions for that in His law, starting with where 1 Peter 1:16 is quoting from.

I would also agree that we are not under God's laws, but that doesn't mean that we have a licence to break them. The law is what gives us knowledge of sin (Romans 3:20) and without the law we wouldn't even know what sin was (Romans 7:7), so because we don't have a licence to sin (Romans 6:15), we don't have a license to be lawless. But I will reply, 'I never knew you. Get away from me, you who break God's laws' (Matthew 7:23). Being in Christ means that we are to practice righteousness/bear much good fruit/do good works all in accordance with God's law (1 John 3:10, John 15:8, Ephesians 2:8-10). As Christ's disciples, we are to follow Christ's example of obedience to the law.
 
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I try to keep my diet as biblical as I can...

1. No pork
2. I deem beef and buffalo as biblical. I love making dishes with buffalo such as spaghetti
3. Fresh fruit and vegetables are good!

I do not think that God was being a bully when he wrote the dietary standards of the Old Testament. Bacon is high is saturated fat and cannot be good for the arteries. We have a local pizzeria that serves beef pepperoni on their pizzas, which I think as a good idea. God did not command us also to put all those chemicals in foods, which I also believe work against our physical system. The principle use of the chemical azodicarbonamide is in the manufacture of plastics, specifically as a blowing agent. The US uses it as a dough conditioner and a bleaching agent in its breads. As a food additive azodicarbonamide is not authorized in Australia and the EU. Subway removed this chemical from their bread last year...

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money...oga-mat-chemical-almost-out-of-bread/7587787/

My grandparents and I use to plant garden and there is nothing that tastes so good as food fresh out of the garden. Back in those August days we would eat well out of the garden and have Sunday meals with just garden vegetables.Fresh red potatoes so tender that you can peel them with your hand, tomatoes, corn on the cob, cucumbers in apple cider vinegar, fresh homemade bread, green beans with just a hint of sugar, along with fresh home made tea... Mmmm! Mmmm!
Yeah,... I went to Subway and asked for Yoga-mat bread.
That was what the media focused on... same stuff in the mats.

But generally, I would assert God WAS being a bit bully-like because that is what was necessary to prepare us for grace.

I'm "off the swine", too, but not religious about it.
Lamb has replaced pork to some degree, in my diet.

I try to get beef that is free of steroids and antibiotics.
Not easy.
 
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Xalith

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@Soyeong :

Acts 15:21 is more Paul explaining to Christians that for the sake of brotherhood and civil peace, Jews who have come to Christ (the Early Church) should continue to keep Mosaic Law to keep the peace with the non-believing Jews still practicing Judaism.

Please read Acts 15:19: "Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:"

"Don't trouble them", is what Paul is saying here. Don't stir up trouble by ignoring/disrespecting their beliefs.

In fact, Paul says the same about meat offered unto idols. It is clean for Christians to eat, but Jews will refuse to touch it, and in a multicultural town like Ancient Corinth, Paul didn't want Christians stirring up trouble with Jews. Therefore, he asked Christians not to eat meat that was sacrificed unto idols anywhere that Jews would see them doing it.

The same would still apply to Christians today. If a Christian visits Jerusalem for any reason (or any other place where Jews are common), we are to respect Jews, and the Mosaic Law as we have at least basic knowledge of said law. You wouldn't (or shouldn't!) eat Pork if you're a guest in a Jewish Household. That's just disrespectful. You're not under Mosaic Law, and you're allowed to eat Pork... but you shouldn't, because it would cause strife.
 
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pat34lee

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You wouldn't (or shouldn't!) eat Pork if you're a guest in a Jewish Household. That's just disrespectful. You're not under Mosaic Law, and you're allowed to eat Pork... but you shouldn't, because it would cause strife.

Not that most practicing Jews would invite an unkosher gentile into their house; You would not only be disrespectful, but flat wrong. If you are saved, you belong under the same covenants as Israel. That includes the covenant made at Mount Sinai. No covenants, no promises, no salvation.

As for laws changing, we are not under the new covenant yet, so the old one has not 'passed away' as many like to put it. The new comes into effect when Jesus returns and claims his throne in Israel. And, no, the law is not written on your heart yet or you wouldn't sin, which means you wouldn't disobey the Torah, or commands of God. Who do you think Jesus is talking to when he says, "depart from me you lawbreakers?" It is people who think that they are Christians, but who refuse to follow his commands. If you are his, you know there is more than what you've been taught in church. Learn it.

Look up Isaiah 66:17. It applies to everyone, not just Israel or the Jews.
 
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Soyeong

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@Soyeong :

Acts 15:21 is more Paul explaining to Christians that for the sake of brotherhood and civil peace, Jews who have come to Christ (the Early Church) should continue to keep Mosaic Law to keep the peace with the non-believing Jews still practicing Judaism.

Please read Acts 15:19: "Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:"

"Don't trouble them", is what Paul is saying here. Don't stir up trouble by ignoring/disrespecting their beliefs.

When an employer highers a new employee, they try not to trouble them by teaching them everything that they will ever need to know up front about how to do their job, but rather they start with the basics with the understanding that they will continue to learn the rest of the job. That's the same thought that's being expressed in Acts 15:19-21. They didn't want to trouble the Gentiles by making them learn all of God's many laws up front, but rather they started with the basics that would allow them to have fellowship with other Jews, which is excused in verse 21 by saying that they will continue to learn every Sabbath, which at least implies they were already keeping the Sabbath.

In fact, Paul says the same about meat offered unto idols. It is clean for Christians to eat, but Jews will refuse to touch it, and in a multicultural town like Ancient Corinth, Paul didn't want Christians stirring up trouble with Jews. Therefore, he asked Christians not to eat meat that was sacrificed unto idols anywhere that Jews would see them doing it.

Everything prohibited in Acts 15:20 is in regard to refraining from pagan worship and idolatry. For example, sun worshippers would go to a temple, sacrifice to their god, eat the sacrifice, drink the blood, and have sex with the temple prostitutes, so Christians should not have any part in that whatsoever. Our allegiance should be holy devoted to God, not to demons. The problem with the Corinthians was that they were under the false understanding that everything was permitted and that the freedom they had in Christ permitted them to partake in sexual immorality and other sins. Their "knowledge" puffed them up and they didn't have the wisdom to use it correctly. They reasoned that and idol has no real existence and that there is only one God, so sacrifices to idols meant nothing and could be done in good conscious. Paul sarcastically referred to them as "strong" in that they thought they were strong because they believed the right things about God and contrasted them with the "weak" who felt that eating polluted meat was sinful and against God's will. The "weak" believe this was true not because of their "knowledge", but because of their close relationship with God and that God was jealous for them as He was for the Israelites. The "strong" believed that they could eat polluted mean because of what they knew, but the "weak" believed they could not eat because of who they knew.

1 Corinthians 10:14 Therefore, my dear friends, run from idolatry!

1 Corinthians 10:21-22 You can’t drink both a cup of the Lord and a cup of demons, you can’t partake in both a meal of the Lord and a meal of demons. Or are we trying to make the Lord jealous? We aren’t stronger than he is, are we?

Revelation 2:14 But I have a few things against you: you have some there who hold the teaching of Balaam, who taught Balak to put a stumbling block before the sons of Israel, so that they might eat food sacrificed to idols and practice sexual immorality.

Revelation 2:20 But I have this against you, that you tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess and is teaching and seducing my servants[c] to practice sexual immorality and to eat food sacrificed to idols.

2 Corinthians 6:17 Therefore go out from their midst, and be separate from them, says the Lord, and touch no unclean thing; then I will welcome you,

The same would still apply to Christians today. If a Christian visits Jerusalem for any reason (or any other place where Jews are common), we are to respect Jews, and the Mosaic Law as we have at least basic knowledge of said law. You wouldn't (or shouldn't!) eat Pork if you're a guest in a Jewish Household. That's just disrespectful. You're not under Mosaic Law, and you're allowed to eat Pork... but you shouldn't, because it would cause strife.

We are not under Mosaic Law, but that doesn't mean that we are allowed to eat pork because Mosaic Law says that eating pork is a sin and we do not have a license to sin.
 
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Soyeong

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But generally, I would assert God WAS being a bit bully-like because that is what was necessary to prepare us for grace.

God is holy, righteous, and good, so it bullying in the slightest for God to require us to have a holy, righteous, and good conduct, and as obedient children of God, it is an essential part of our relationship with Him. God's grace is in regard to our redemption, not in regard to exempting us from needing to have such a conduct.
 
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While I agree that the Old Covenant is obsolete, there is a difference between a covenant agreement to obey God's law and God's law, which is based on God's character and holy, righteous, and good standard, and which exists independently of any covenant to follow it.

God gave that covenant to the Hebrews, who were his people, whom he had freed from slavery. They were to show themselves to be his people by being holy - or set apart - and live holy lives. That meant worshipping him as the only God, not having anything to do with idols, following his rules for right living and offering sacrifices when they sinned, not touching unclean people who were bleeding or had skin complaints or dead people, not eating unclean foods, wearing clothes of pure cotton, not mixed fabrics, and keeping themselves pure by marrying only other Hebrews; no one from outside their faith. That is how they were to live in gratitude to a holy God who had called them and made them holy.

Is God still holy today? Of course. Does he have people he has called to be his own? Of course - all those who believe that he sent his Son to be the spotless Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world; all those who believe that, through him, they have been freed from the slavery of sin and death. Has he commanded us to live in such a way so as to reflect his light, his glory and our relationship with him? Of course. But the latter does not include going back to the OT laws and putting ourselves under them, or in bondage to them. It may be very good to follow the dietary laws, but it's not a command for us.

So even if God had made no covenants with us, we should still have a holy, righteous, and good conduct. As you quoted from Jeremiah, the New Covenant involves God writing His law on our hearts, so there is not a change between covenants in the basic law structure. God's instructions for how to have a holy, righteous, and good conduct remained the same

Jesus gave us lots of commands, teaching and instruction on how to live - following strict food laws that were not given to Gentiles was not part of that.

The context of Jesus' discussion was about man-made ritual purity laws that said if something that was clean came into contact with something that was unclean, then it became common or defiled (Mark 7:3-4), so Jesus was only speaking against man-made ritual purity laws and not God's dietary laws. His statement in Matthew 15:20 makes it clear that he never switched topics to talking about dietary laws.

And the statement in Mark makes it clear that by saying this, Jesus declared all foods to be clean. Nowhere did Jesus insist that all Gentiles follow Jewish dietary laws after they believed in him.

For at least the first seven years after the Messiah's ascension up until Peter's vision in Acts 10, all Christians were Torah observant Jews,

The early church did not stop being Jews after they witnessed the resurrection and received the Spirit at Pentecost, so if they DID observe all the food laws (there is no Scripture to say this) it may have been because it took a while to understand what their new faith meant. They met on the first day of the week, for example, to break bread.
At the council of Jerusalem, James sent a letter to Gentile believers telling them to abstain from blood, (not pork) and from meat offered to idols. Yet only a few years later, Paul, who took this letter to the Gentiles, told them that eating meat offered to idols did not make them unclean, that an idol was nothing and that the kingdom of God is not a matter of food and drink. This is a former Pharisee talking.

I would also agree that we are not under God's laws, but that doesn't mean that we have a licence to break them.

But we don't have a commandment to keep them - not the food and hygiene laws anyway.
 
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joshua 1 9

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I try to keep my diet as biblical as I can...

1. No pork
2. I deem beef and buffalo as biblical. I love making dishes with buffalo such as spaghetti
3. Fresh fruit and vegetables are good!

I do not think that God was being a bully when he wrote the dietary standards of the Old Testament. Bacon is high is saturated fat and cannot be good for the arteries. We have a local pizzeria that serves beef pepperoni on their pizzas, which I think as a good idea. God did not command us also to put all those chemicals in foods, which I also believe work against our physical system. The principle use of the chemical azodicarbonamide is in the manufacture of plastics, specifically as a blowing agent. The US uses it as a dough conditioner and a bleaching agent in its breads. As a food additive azodicarbonamide is not authorized in Australia and the EU. Subway removed this chemical from their bread last year...

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money...oga-mat-chemical-almost-out-of-bread/7587787/

My grandparents and I use to plant garden and there is nothing that tastes so good as food fresh out of the garden. Back in those August days we would eat well out of the garden and have Sunday meals with just garden vegetables.Fresh red potatoes so tender that you can peel them with your hand, tomatoes, corn on the cob, cucumbers in apple cider vinegar, fresh homemade bread, green beans with just a hint of sugar, along with fresh home made tea... Mmmm! Mmmm!
Science recommends a whole grain all plant diet, no meat, no dairy, low fat and so on. I would say what science considers to be healthy is a lot stricter then the Bible diet. Of course they talk about a ounce of prevention can require a pound of cure. Also the number one cause of food poisonings at the emergency room is shell fish, again we receive warnings about this in the Bible. Everyday we hear about different chemicals that they put on the plants or in processed foods that are known to cause cancer. We live in a fallen world and our diet seems to reflect that. If you want to live a long life then eating right is a part of that. Also exercise and healthy relationships with others. After all the difference between illness and wellness is "I" & "WE". Which can be difficult because sometimes people get along best when they are sharing a meal together.
 
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joshua 1 9

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But we don't have a commandment to keep them - not the food and hygiene laws anyway.
Matt5:17 17"Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.18"For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.…" If people do not follow the law then do not be surprised if they get sick. John10:10 "The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I came that they may have life, and have it abundantly."
 
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Rick Otto

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God is holy, righteous, and good, so it bullying in the slightest for God to require us to have a holy, righteous, and good conduct, and as obedient children of God, it is an essential part of our relationship with Him. God's grace is in regard to our redemption, not in regard to exempting us from needing to have such a conduct.
Chill out. Our redemption required us experiencing the futility of self-redemption.
So, it was bullying, but it was the right thing to do.
Your objection is simply about terminology.
It was holy, righteous, and good bullying.
Don't let perfect become the enemy of good.
 
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God gave the Hebrews the dietary laws to keep them healthy. Before that people were eating bugs and anything they could. The laws were not for bullying but for their health. Today our food supply is completely contaminated so basically we have gone back to eating the way the people did before the dietary laws were written, but we just do it now in the name of science.

We should wise up, educate ourselves on what is really in our food, and stay away from it for the sake of our health.
 
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