Old Testament Cosmology (video)

[random person]

I suggest skipping ahead to the 36:00 mark in this video.

 

[Smidlee]

I suggest skipping ahead to the 36:00 mark in this video.

From the very begining (at 36 minutes) he assumes "we got a scientific world view " thinking that the ancient did not have a "scientific world view." (they even worship human knowledge) The heart of man hasn't change , he still believes he's so smart and his ancestor were a butch of idiots. It's the pride of man causes him to left himself up.
He probably doesn't know a lot of our "scientific world view" is based of the religious idea of "the principle of continuity".

Just because today science is based on pagan ideas doesn't means that everybody believes in them.

 

[OliviaMay]

From the very begining (at 36 minutes) he assumes "we got a scientific world view " thinking that the ancient did not have a "scientific world view." (they even worship human knowledge) The heart of man hasn't change , he still believes he's so smart and his ancestor were a butch of idiots. It's the pride of man causes him to left himself up.
He probably doesn't know a lot of our "scientific world view" is based of the religious idea of "the principle of continuity".

Just because today science is based on pagan ideas doesn't means that everybody believes in them.

That isn't an accurate description of what he said. He did not at all call them dumb or insinuate they were.

 

[Smidlee]

That isn't an accurate description of what he said. He did not at all call them dumb or insinuate they were.

He trying to hint they were less scientific which is a huge assumption on his part. Science is something that's "wired" into man.

 

[OliviaMay]

He trying to hint they were less scientific when they know they were very scientific. Science is something that's "wired" into man.

Science is a methodology. It is not wired into people. That makes no sense. They were not scientific.

 

[Smidlee]

Science is a methodology. It is not wired into people. That makes no sense.

Science is man trying to find meaning and the cause behind the universe. It is something "wired" into man just like knowledge of flight is "wired" into birds. Even scientist admits we are "wired" to see design in the universe.

 

[random person]

He trying to hint they were less scientific which is a huge assumption on his part. Science is something that's "wired" into man.

So should we discard the last 200 years worth of science and discoveries and return our stone age roots?

Is that even feasible?

No more satellites, no more electricity, no more airplane flight, no more cellphones, no more internet, no more newspapers, no more television, no more Hubble telescope, no more vehicles, no more global field studies, NO MORE BOOKS, NO MORE UNIVERSITIES AND INSTITUTIONS OF HIGHER LEARNING, etc.

 

[OliviaMay]

Science is man trying to find meaning and the cause behind the universe. It is something "wired" into man just like knowledge of flight is "wired" into birds. Even scientist admits we are "wired" to see design in the universe.

Ah you fundamentally misunderstand science. Allow me to clarify. Science does not try to find meaning. It tries to find how stuff works. Meaning is for philosophy and religion.

 

[Smidlee]

Ah you fundamentally misunderstand science. Allow me to clarify. Science does not try to find meaning. It tries to find how stuff works. Meaning is for philosophy and religion.

Are you trying to claim scientist is not trying to explain the cause of the universe? Philosophy , religion ,science , politics , money are all come from the human mind. They are all interconnected even though we divide up human thoughts in categories.

 

[Papias]

he still believes he's so smart and his ancestor were a butch of idiots.

He never says that at all. Quite the contrary, our ancestors then were quite smart. The flat earth, hard dome model of our world is the natural result of smart people making astute observations.

Think of living back then - with no airplanes, globes in schools, etc. Of course the earth is flat (unsure? Just go outside to a big field and take a look. Obviously, it's flat). Of course the sky has water above it. (unsure? Just go outside on a clear day and take a look. See the blue color? Of course, that's water, because water is blue, and nothing else looks like that in nature). Of course the firmament is hard - how else could it keep all that water from falling on us? Of course the firmament is clear - how else could we see all that water up there? Of course the firmament is domed - (unsure? Just go outside and take a look. You can see the sky arched above us and coming down to meet the earth at the horizon, and you see the stars trace out the shape of the dome every night as the rise and set). Of course the sun and moon are inside the firmament as described in Genesis. (unsure? Just go outside and take a look. You can see the sun, moon, and stars, undistorted by the water behind them - if they were far away, outside the water, they'd look blurry).

So of course, it's not a surprise that our wonderful God kept his communication in line with that view. He did so because our God, in His infinite wisdom, knew that he needed to communicate to people in language they already understood. It's another example, like the life of Jesus himself, of our God coming to meet us at our level, in love. That's why that view, of a flat earth & hard dome, is repeated again and again throughout scripture, and never contradicted. A few examples include:

Flat Earth-

Bible tells us that the earth is flat like a piece of clay stamped under a seal (Job 38:13-14), that it has edges as only a flat plane would (Job 38:13-14,.Psa 19:4), is set on a foundation, like a table (2Sm 22:16, Ps 18:15, 102:25, Pr 8:27-29, Is 48:13), has a length as only a flat plane would (Dan 4:11, Job 11:9, Job 28:24, Job 37:3, Job 38:13, Job 38:44, Jrm 16:19), that it is a circular disk (Isa 40:22), and that its entire surface can be seen from a high tree (Dan 4:10-11) heaven (Job 28:24) or mountain (Matt 4:8) or which is impossible for a sphere, but possible for a flat disk. Taken literally, as the YECs insist we do, any one of these passages shows a flat earth. Taken together, they are even more clear. And many Christians in history have interpreted it as such.

Geocentrism-
The Bible describes the earth as unmovable, set on a foundation of either pillars in water (1 Sam 2:8, 1 Chr 16:30, Job 9:6, 38:4, Psa 24:1-2, 75:s3, 93:1, 96:10, 104:5, 136:6). It also tells us that, although the earth does not move, the sun and stars do move about it (Josh 10:12, Psa 19:4-6, 50:1, Ecc 1:5 (note “returns”, not perspective), Hab 3:11). And that the stars could be dropped down onto the earth like fruit falling from a tree (Rev. 6:13). Taken literally, as the YECs insist we do, these verses show geocentrism. And many Christians in history have interpreted it as such.

We live in a Planetarium-
The Bible describes the sky (firmament -- literally "metal bowl made by a hammer"- Gen 1:6-8, 1:14-17) as a solid dome, like a tent (Isa 40:22, Psa 19:4, 104:2, Pr 8:27-29, Ezk 1:26), that is arched over the surface of the earth. It also has windows to let rain/snow in (Gen 7:11, 8:2, Deut 28:12, 2 Kings 7:2, Job 37:18, Mal 3:10, Rev 4:1). Ezekiel 1:22 and Job 37:18 even tell us that it's hard like bronze and sparkles like ice, that God walks on it (Job 22:14) and can be removed (Rev 6:14). Taken literally, as the YECs insist we do, these verses show a solid sky above us. And again, many Christians in history have interpreted it as such.

Olivia (hi!), Randomperson, and scholar like the one in the video are right on this point - and that's fine.

In Christ Jesus-

Papias

 

[Smidlee]

He never says that at all. Quite the contrary, our ancestors then were quite smart. The flat earth, hard dome model of our world is the natural result of smart people making astute observations.

Think of living back then - with no airplanes, globes in schools, etc. Of course the earth is flat (unsure? Just go outside to a big field and take a look. Obviously, it's flat). Of course the sky has water above it. (unsure? Just go outside on a clear day and take a look. See the blue color? Of course, that's water, because water is blue, and nothing else looks like that in nature). Of course the firmament is hard - how else could it keep all that water from falling on us?

Elijah knew where to look to see where clouds are formed. Do you really think that ancient men didn't know what fog was? I sorry but that a butch of nonsense just like believing Columbus was trying to prove the earth was round.

What is a pillar but something that hold something in place. We have a new name for the pillars of heaven yet we still don't know exactly what those pillars are.

 

[Papias]

Smidlee, I don't understand your post about fog and pillars. It doesn't seem to detract from the extensive scriptural evidence I posted which clearly show that the Bibles describe a flat earth under a hard dome, with the stars, moon, and planets inside that dome. - Just as the scholars say. That certainly doesn't say that ancient people were stupid, as such a description is a natural result of observation, as described above.