Old Southern Baptist beliefs

[Travelers.Soul]

So I have been talking to this guy about theology. We are both Southern Baptist but I am reformed. I asked him about his theological leanings and he told me "I believe in the old southern baptist beliefs." What on earth does that mean? Does anyone have any idea? I mean, my dad is a Southern Baptist pastor and I was raised in the Southern Baptist church but I am at a loss as to what that means. He just left it at that and then moved on to ask me what I thought about speaking in tongues.

 

[JM]

The old SBC Abstract of Principles is an abstraction of the Second London Baptist Confession of Faith (1689) Philadephia edition (1742). It was Reformed. It was Calvinistic. It was clearly covenantal. The Abstract of Principles were a short form and summation of the old Particular Baptist confessions. I have no idea what that fella was talking about but I get the impression he was referring to the old "Fundamentalist" beliefs that became the new standard in the 20's. They include Dispensationalism and Arminianism.

For a Tabular Comparison click here.

Yours in the Lord,

jm

 

[Travelers.Soul]

JM,
Thank you for your help. I have no idea why that never dawned on me. Thank you also for the comparison between the confessions of faith, I was unaware of the Savoy Declaration of Faith.

 

[JM]

JM,
Thank you for your help. I have no idea why that never dawned on me. Thank you also for the comparison between the confessions of faith, I was unaware of the Savoy Declaration of Faith.

It should also be noted that Baptists tended toward the Savoy over the Westminster. The Savoy being a Congregational Confession.

Check out Waldon's Modern Exposition of the 1689.

jm

 

[Pedrito]

Please allow me a little confusion.

I understood that the Baptist Church presented itself as a Bible Believing church.

Yet, unless I have otherwise misunderstood, it would seem that its doctrines have changed over time.

If that is so, how can that be?

In the light of God not being the author of confusion, can His revelation to us be that unclear?

Was the church teaching error in the past?


It is all very puzzling.


Would someone please help clarify the matter for me.

 

[JM]

Yes, modern Baptists have changed the fundamental principles and presuppostions that support their doctrine but not the doctrine itself. If you look at the writings of the 17th century Baptists you will find they base their defence of believers baptism on the biblical idea of covenants. Covenant theology was lost after the advent of Liberalism, which caused a reactionary and unbiblical defence of Baptist doctrine. Now we have Dispensationalism in its place. Dispensationalism was created in the 1820's and insists on a wooden, literalistic reading of scripture.

Yours in the Lord,

jm

 

[SwordoftheLord]

Yes, modern Baptists have changed the fundamental principles and presuppostions that support their doctrine but not the doctrine itself. If you look at the writings of the 17th century Baptists you will find they base their defence of believers baptism on the biblical idea of covenants. Covenant theology was lost after the advent of Liberalism, which caused a reactionary and unbiblical defence of Baptist doctrine. Now we have Dispensationalism in its place. Dispensationalism was created in the 1820's and insists on a wooden, literalistic reading of scripture.

Yours in the Lord,

jm

Hmmm Interesting... I didnt know that the Baptists were Covenant Theology, I thought that was more geared towards groupd like the Congregationalists?

 

[98cwitr]

"I believe in the old southern baptist beliefs." = I don't support women in ministry and Sunday is the Sabbath.

 

[JM]

Hmmm Interesting... I didnt know that the Baptists were Covenant Theology, I thought that was more geared towards groupd like the Congregationalists?

Actually, Congregational covenant theology and 17th century Baptist covenant theology are identical. The great Baptist Elder Nehemiah Coxe wrote on covenant theology and instructs his readers to pick up the work of Congregational Pastor John Owen.

Our covenant theology, Congregational and Baptist, we're republished together just just a few years ago.

 

[JM]

Hmmm Interesting... I didnt know that the Baptists were Covenant Theology, I thought that was more geared towards groupd like the Congregationalists?

 

[miamited]

So I have been talking to this guy about theology. We are both Southern Baptist but I am reformed. I asked him about his theological leanings and he told me "I believe in the old southern baptist beliefs." What on earth does that mean? Does anyone have any idea? I mean, my dad is a Southern Baptist pastor and I was raised in the Southern Baptist church but I am at a loss as to what that means. He just left it at that and then moved on to ask me what I thought about speaking in tongues.

Hi DOI,

While I do generally worship with a baptist fellowship, I don't consider myself a baptist. I'm a born again child of God. I believe the Scriptures. Insofar as the 'old southern baptist beliefs' are in line with the Scriptures, I am in agreement. In the things in which I can't find Scriptural support, not so much. I think the song by the Imperials says it well:

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

 

[Bluelion]

To people asking about Baptist your getting theology not the doctrine of the church which is the Bible. There are people here who prefer words of men to God.

To the op. what he meant is no women in ministry, as 98 church on sunday, but the Sabbath was Friday night to Saturday night. If he adheres to the old beliefs woman should not work stay home take care of the kids. A woman's place is to take care of the household. Whipping children with a rod or belt is seen as fine. Children are to do as they are told and the wife too. That is traditional southern baptist. The tongues thing they believe speaking in tongues some are what called snake handlers and believe in using posion snakes in worship, but that is more extreme branch.

 

[SwordoftheLord]

Gonna have to pick this up for sure.

 

[JM]

Another work that you can find online for free was written by AW Pink, Divine Covenants. He outlines the biblical covenants, and here's the crazy part, without having read the 17th Baptist writers.... arrives at the same conclusion using scripture alone.

God is good!

 

[Travelers.Soul]

Thank you all for your insight. I finally got it sorted out. When he was talking about the "old Southern Baptist way" think Southern Baptists of the 1930's - 50's.

 

[twin1954]

To people asking about Baptist your getting theology not the doctrine of the church which is the Bible. There are people here who prefer words of men to God.

To the op. what he meant is no women in ministry, as 98 church on sunday, but the Sabbath was Friday night to Saturday night. If he adheres to the old beliefs woman should not work stay home take care of the kids. A woman's place is to take care of the household. Whipping children with a rod or belt is seen as fine. Children are to do as they are told and the wife too. That is traditional southern baptist. The tongues thing they believe speaking in tongues some are what called snake handlers and believe in using posion snakes in worship, but that is more extreme branch.

I have never known a Baptist to believe in snake handling and I have lived most of my life in the area where such practice is the most common. Snake handling isn't a Baptist thing and never was. It is usually Pentecostal Holiness that practice it.

 

[DawnStar]

I have never known a Baptist to believe in snake handling and I have lived most of my life in the area where such practice is the most common. Snake handling isn't a Baptist thing and never was. It is usually Pentecostal Holiness that practice it.

Yes that is true. It was also stated that traditional Southern Baptists believe in speaking in tongues, which definitely is not correct either.

 

[Travelers.Soul]

Southern Baptists seem to be mixed on speaking in tongues. Some believe the gift of tongues have ceased while others believe the gift of tongues was/is a spoken or known language and should never be used apart from an interpreter...not what goes on in most charismatic churches. I grew up in the Appalachian Mountain region and the only churches I knew of that handled snakes were either charismatic (pentecostal, holiness, etc) or churches we referred to as "Bapticostal" (churches that said they were baptist but were really pentecostal).

 

[Bluelion]

I have know southern baptist to do snake handling. They don't believe in tongues? I guess they don't believe the Bible then huh. Paul speaks of this gift. Really i grow tired of battling in the world then coming here and have to justify everything I say to the same so called Christians. What you do to me you do to Jesus.

 

[DawnStar]

I have know southern baptist to do snake handling. They don't believe in tongues? I guess they don't believe the Bible then huh. Paul speaks of this gift. Really i grow tired of battling in the world then coming here and have to justify everything I say to the same so called Christians. What you do to me you do to Jesus.

I have done nothing to you. All I did was disagree with what you stated. This is a discussion forum and it is the nature of the beast that you sometimes have to justify what you say with facts. Please do not try to equate disagreeing with you with doing something "bad" to Jesus. That is absolutely ridiculous. And by saying I am a so called Christian you are questioning my salvation and breaking the forum rules.