Okay, so my story

[Dewi Sant]

As many of you may know, I was once Orthodox.
It was a wonderful existence where I felt at peace not only with myself but with my neighbours (figuratively speaking). Slow to anger, and with a desire to achieve ever greater depths of holiness, I felt that all was going well.
My catechesis tutor and later god-father was wonderful, but this rosy picture was soon to end.

The university I worked at made changes to its organisation and as a result I lost my god-father.
I carried on regardless.
My personal interests in the western rite caused me to come into contact with a priest. This is where things get shocking. After an evening's company I became too ill to travel home and so had to stay the night. I had stayed at preists houses before and thought nothing of it, but not that night. I hope you are able to fill in the blanks as it would pain me to express in detail what happened.

My world view was shattered.
I considered this man to be holy, nay an exemplar of the faith. Indeed he is in many ways and perhaps he fell into a moment of weakness at my expense, but it was the motivator for my gradual leaving from the church.

I was told that love is the most crucial thing and furthermore, that I should not be afraid to be gay. This confused me immensely and had massive effect upon how I was to view things.

Anyway, I tried to ignore it and would continue going to my parish at university. The thoughts would keep returning.
Not just the liberalism of being gay (which really isn't something I considered before), but memories of the abuse.
I began to grow weary and sort of slipped out of the church.


It has always been clear to me that God had desired for me to be a priest, but after feeling so confused, I didn't think it would be right for me to consider it.

I would start attending the university chapel, which was Anglican. I was able to forget about things and to concentrate on faith.

I took myself to Oxford for a short break and stayed in one of the Anglican theological colleges there (cheap rooms in a very expensive city). Whilst I was there they were having an open day.
I attended evening prayer, and not really knowing what to do, I followed what the others were doing. There was an elaborate ritual at the end of evening prayer where the priest vested and did a lot of genuflecting (till this point I had not come across Anglo-Catholicism of this very high/Romanistic variety). Inclining my neck the pipe organ played a fanfare whilst bells rang. I felt a cold fire fill me and was saturated with the certainty that I was to be Anglican.

Fast forward a few years.

Met the same priest again, same mistake.
Met another priest (Anglican...turns out to be friends with the Orthodox one), made what in hindsight was a narrow escape. I left the house in a hurry for the last bus but minutes after arriving home I was unconscious. I can assure you it is not mere alcohol, I could drink like any other student on campus.

fast forward.

I "discern" a vocation to the ordained ministry of the Church of England.
+1yr of misery as I get entangled in the huge amount of partisan politics of the CofE without any sign that anyone is particularly interested in helping me.

present day.
I was going to Greek class at the local Orthodox church and met a lady who discussed with me my journey (I skipped out the shocking stuff in this post).
I felt, from her, a sense of contentment and peace which I had known myself only a few years ago.
I knew that I was ready to return and yet, I learn that it is necessary for re-chrismation for apostates.

If it were not for the re-chrismation, I would seriously consider it. But as it is, I am filled with a huge amount of sadness and woe which causes me only to feel offense toward the Orthodox church.

This thread is quite silly and I am more than a trifle foolish sharing these things with you.



I at least feel more certainty if I stay where I am. I know that the Orthodox (on paper) believe that the Holy Spirit departs from a person when they become apostate. I trust that I have experience to the contrary, lest I would surely have gone mad.
It seems to me that the harsh rules concerning apostasy are more aimed at keeping people in [through fear] than welcoming those who fell out.

I trust in the love and mercy of God, but there is something profoundly distressing I find about re-confirmation.

It is 5am here in the UK and I am not in the least bit tired. Even if I tried to sleep, this is going to play on my mind which makes sleep impossible and nightmares certain.

 

[E.C.]

Hey I've been wondering where you've been. Welcome back to TAW!



The reception of converts is always a case-by-case basis. The re-reception of people is, again, a case-by-case basis, so it may instead be going to confession to come back into the Church. I've not heard of re-chrismating somebody, but just hearing it the rational could be along the lines of "Let's make sure this guy does indeed have the Holy Spirit in him".


Have you talked to anyone else about the priest mentioned at the beginning of your post?

 

[Dewi Sant]

about the priest, no.

1) He does a *lot* of good work. I cannot describe in detail for obvious reasons.
2) If I did, there is the distinct possibility that the press would know about it and Orthodoxy in the UK would be known for the wrong reasons.
3) I don't trust anyone.

Oh, but I did tell a priest (Anglican) about it in oblique terms. Really didn't help matters.
I am where I am, and it is from here that I must continue.

 

[Joseph Hazen]

It is 5am here in the UK and I am not in the least bit tired. Even if I tried to sleep, this is going to play on my mind which makes sleep impossible and nightmares certain.

This is of primary concern. I've been in these types of situations and they're a repeating, unhelpful cycle. You can't make rational decisions when you're exhausted. It's also not going to be the path God wants for you - He invented sleep, beds, and rest for a reason (IMO anyway).

So to start with realize these aren't all issues you have to deal with right away. You have time. God knows you're struggling to get to Him, and our trying is what concerns Him most. Work out if there's something you can do about things now so you can just sleep. Having a clean apartment or drinking chamomile tea helps me, or sometimes realizing that I can do X, Y, or Z about what is stressing me out helps get me to sleep. Remember - you don't have a due date. You have time to deal with every issue your mind keeps ruminating on.

Second, as E.C. said, while traditionally we re-Chrismate some people, that's only some people, and even then it's not a full re-Chrismation if I remember correctly. Sometimes a bishop will decide that such and such an issue requires re-Chrismation, and then they're anointed on the forehead only. It has more to do with spiritual realities of having left the fold and coming back in, spiritual salves, and definitely re-affirimg one's position within the priesthood of believers than it does with human perceptions. It's a very early practice, going back to the Ecumenical Councils. Most of the time, however, Confession is all that is required of those who've fallen away.

Find a new priest to discuss the issues with the old priest, or even just go straight to the police.

God doesn't want you to be anxious and stressed over which path He's guiding you towards. Relax and give yourself the time and space to come to Him.

Edited to add: I just saw you don't want to report the priest out of concern for The Church's reputation and the the good work he does. From my perspective, he's doing an equal amount of harm so long as he doesn't have to face his demons. Someone also once told me that it is not my job to protect the dignity of The Church. You're the man here who gets to decide on this count, but do not let any concern over the two points you raised stop you.

 

[MariaRegina]

I am praying for you.

Lord have mercy.

 

[Anhelyna]

Oh Dewi Sant

I wondered what had happened . I'm so sorry about all this and the damage it has done to you.

For the sake of others you need to say something - covering up/ignoring leads to more damage.

Can you approach his Bishop ?

Whatever you do - be assured of my prayers for you

 

[jckstraw72]

Lord have mercy!

 

[gzt]

This whole thing sounds tragic and terrible. I'm very sorry that this happened to you and will keep you in your prayers.

Also, are you sure about rechrismation. As far as I was aware, that's for, like, somebody becoming e.g. a Muslim - a true apostate.

 

[GregConstantine]

I would like to say that I'm very sorry for what happened to you. This kind of thing however, as you probably know, isn't restricted to Orthodoxy, but can happen anywhere.
I would like to encourage you to seek counseling or therapy. There, you can share what happened to you in full and strict confidence. Your therapist will probably not ask you to give him/her any specific names of people. They may however encourage you to report this, as this is something that does not happen just once. It probably has happened and will happen again to another person.
I'm glad to hear you are reconsidering coming back to the Church. But I completely get why that would be very difficult and painful.

 

[GregConstantine]

Also, I don't know what the law is in Great Britain in terms of when you are no longer considered a minor, but if you are according to your nation's law, that may change the consequences of what happened to you (or if you are no longer a minor but this occured while you were a minor)
We have the same system of law (English Common Law) so I'm assuming its going to be similar.

 

[seekingfreedom]

Could it be a fear that if you expose this person to a bishop or the authorities that you would possibly not be "heard". How hurtful would that be to be victimized again.

In any case, it would be helpful to take another step (since you already took one step and confided in the Anglican priest, to no avail ) and contact an Orthodox priest or a counselor and tell them everything without naming names, at first, and go from there. One step at a time until you are strong enough to go peacefully where your conscience leads you. To have a trusted someone by your side, a priest, a counselor, a friend who believes in you, would be helpful.

I also understand the secretiveness, of worrying what effect it will have on those who have placed their trust in this man, not for the same reasons as you, but for other reasons. It is a mindset and we most likely have learned it from those in authority, be it our parents, teachers, priests and ministers. To be good, to not say bad things about others, even when they have hurt you, etc. Take your time. It is a struggle. God knows our hearts.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Lord have mercy!

yeah, I agree with what others said, this kinda stuff cannot be bottled up. as far as being Chrismated again, as was stated before I know some who have returned after confession and a pennance given by the priest, some who have had the rechrismation or whatever it is, but either way it gets you back home in the Church. I would not make any decisions either way until you met with that priest where you are learning Greek.

you are in my prayers, man.

 

[Dewi Sant]

Thank you all for your kind responses and prayers.

I am beginning to feel a bit easier about it, and I am going to [try to] leave it to God.

I return again and again to a most beautiful prayer set to music.
Thou Knowest Lord The Secrets Of Our Hearts - YouTube

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

I have never heard of this? Re-chrismation? So if someone leaves the Orthodox Church for a brief time and returns, they have to undergo chrismation a second time? I would just think they'd either confess or return, etc.? Never knew that? Did leaving Orthodoxy strip off the oil from the forehead?

Lord have mercy!

yeah, I agree with what others said, this kinda stuff cannot be bottled up. as far as being Chrismated again, as was stated before I know some who have returned after confession and a pennance given by the priest, some who have had the rechrismation or whatever it is, but either way it gets you back home in the Church. I would not make any decisions either way until you met with that priest where you are learning Greek.

you are in my prayers, man.

 

[ma2000]

Hello, and welcome back! It's nice seeing you again!

Lord, have mercy!

 

[ArmyMatt]

I have never heard of this? Re-chrismation? So if someone leaves the Orthodox Church for a brief time and returns, they have to undergo chrismation a second time? I would just think they'd either confess or return, etc.? Never knew that? Did leaving Orthodoxy strip off the oil from the forehead?

depends on the bishop. and it's not like a chrismation when one first becomes Orthodox. I have only personally seen confession and sometimes a pennance.

 

[MariaRegina]

depends on the bishop. and it's not like a chrismation when one first becomes Orthodox. I have only personally seen confession and sometimes a pennance.

Several priests told us at retreats when this subject came up at the Q & A, that people are only re-Chrismated when they commit the sin of apostacy: denying the divinity of Jesus Christ through conversion to the JWs, Mormons, Judaism, Buddhism, Islam, etc. Defection to a Christian denomination, Anglicism, or to Roman Catholicism does not necessitate Chrismation.

Of course, "True, Traditional, or Genuine" Orthodox Christians have different beliefs and will baptize anyone who did not have a valid Orthodox Baptism, including those baptized in a child's font who were not totally submerged. Remember that movie: MY BIG FAT GREEK WEDDING. They would not have accepted that fish pond baptism. Furthermore, they will chrismate anyone who comes from "World Orthodoxy."

 

[MariaRegina]

Since you were raped by that priest, please tell that to your confessor. Those circumstances might mitigate any penances he may think of imposing as you were traumatized. You have been away a long time from the Church.

I just read a piece from St. Gregory Palamas about forgiveness. That sick priest really needs our prayers as he has offended our loving and merciful God just as that unfaithful servant has. By causing you to lose your faith, he deserves to have a mill stone put around his neck and tossed into the deep sea. Forgiving and praying for him that he may repent, and then going to the ecclesiastical authorities, can restore confidence in the Church. How many others have been raped or molested by that priest? He needs help. His work of charity is just a cover for his wickedness.

 

[Dorothea]

This is of primary concern. I've been in these types of situations and they're a repeating, unhelpful cycle. You can't make rational decisions when you're exhausted. It's also not going to be the path God wants for you - He invented sleep, beds, and rest for a reason (IMO anyway).

So to start with realize these aren't all issues you have to deal with right away. You have time. God knows you're struggling to get to Him, and our trying is what concerns Him most. Work out if there's something you can do about things now so you can just sleep. Having a clean apartment or drinking chamomile tea helps me, or sometimes realizing that I can do X, Y, or Z about what is stressing me out helps get me to sleep. Remember - you don't have a due date. You have time to deal with every issue your mind keeps ruminating on.

Second, as E.C. said, while traditionally we re-Chrismate some people, that's only some people, and even then it's not a full re-Chrismation if I remember correctly. Sometimes a bishop will decide that such and such an issue requires re-Chrismation, and then they're anointed on the forehead only. It has more to do with spiritual realities of having left the fold and coming back in, spiritual salves, and definitely re-affirimg one's position within the priesthood of believers than it does with human perceptions. It's a very early practice, going back to the Ecumenical Councils. Most of the time, however, Confession is all that is required of those who've fallen away.

Find a new priest to discuss the issues with the old priest, or even just go straight to the police.

God doesn't want you to be anxious and stressed over which path He's guiding you towards. Relax and give yourself the time and space to come to Him.

Edited to add: I just saw you don't want to report the priest out of concern for The Church's reputation and the the good work he does. From my perspective, he's doing an equal amount of harm so long as he doesn't have to face his demons. Someone also once told me that it is not my job to protect the dignity of The Church. You're the man here who gets to decide on this count, but do not let any concern over the two points you raised stop you.

I agree with Joseph. At least if you can report him to his bishop. His bishop needs to know for the reason Anhelyna said. I'm so sorry you went through this. How devastating. My prayers for your finding healing and peace. I also agree that some counseling would be good, and find another priest to talk to.

I don't think reChrismation is what would be needed. Just confession.

 

[Dewi Sant]

Glory to God!

Today (technically yesterday according to GMT), I went to Divine Liturgy.
The picture is of the end of Matins, or the very beginning of the Liturgy. The church was comfortably full by the time of the communion.

It was wonderful and I felt very much 'at home'. The priest there is a lovely soul who I feel comfortable with.

I will be returning to that church for silent prayer (Jesus) on Wednesday.
I'm not sure if I will be able to make that church my parish because I hope to help my god-son and his fiancée get to church and it is best convenient for them to go to Oxford.

Oh, btw, pray for Metropolitan Kallistos, he is very unwell with his back and may be going into life-threatening surgery.




I felt (spiritually) happy for the first time in a long while.
It felt 'right'.


I thank you all for your prayers and as ever, I am appreciative of them in the coming days.