OK So thoughts on this article: Liberation Theology and Pope Francis

[anjelica]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...liberation-theology-founder-gustavo-gutierrez

 

[Mountain_Girl406]

I'm glad to hear this. I'm not as familiar with Liberation Theology as I'd like to be (I have Gutierrez' book A Theory of Liberation on my shelf but haven't reached it yet ) but I hope it finds a place.

 

[Martinius]

I'm glad to hear this. I'm not as familiar with Liberation Theology as I'd like to be (I have Gutierrez' book A Theory of Liberation on my shelf but haven't reached it yet ) but I hope it finds a place.

Pick it up and read it. It seems that a lot of news stories often leave the best quote until the end. Here it is from the article, said by a theologian at Fordham:

“At the heart of liberation theology is the gospel – the good news of Christianity".

Exactly. Once you learn the truth about liberation theology, as taught and practiced by Catholics (not Marxists) you will see that it is simply applying the gospel to a particular place, time and situation.

A couple of other thoughts from the article. First, Gutierrez was a founder of liberation theology, although perhaps not THE founder. We can say that "George Washington is the father of our country" but in reality it took many other people to birth this baby we call the USA. Same with liberation theology.

Second, liberation theology (LT) was NOT ONLY a Latin American movement. It probably originated there and became prominent there (ask yourself why that would be; the answer you get does not place Latin American governments, U.S. government and big business, or the Catholic hierarchical structure in a good light), but liberation theology also happened in other parts of the world, especially parts of Asia where the Catholic Church was fairly strong, and also in parts of Africa. In other words, in third world countries where many people were oppressed and basic human rights were suppressed, usually be a combination of political, economic, social and (unfortunately) religious forces trying to maintain a status quo.

LT seems to have sprung from the work of Vatican II. Keep in mind that some of those first liberation theologians were there, and it was also the first time that so many bishops of the Church were gathered in one place for extended periods of time. So many ideas and issues were discussed, and relationships established. The LT movement was then ignited, not just by theologians, but by bishops and cardinals of the Latin American countries, who met in a conference, and were the first to really state the appalling situations facing many Latinos in an honest and organized manner, and propose solutions.

I am very happy that Gutierrez is being recognized for his work and leadership, but I feel sad for all those who are no longer around to be part of it, including martyred priests, nuns and lay workers, and even bishops, like Oscar Romero, who paid a heavy price for living the gospel.

 

[anjelica]

Thankyou for your responses. I was very interested to read this article because my main research are when I was in acadaemia was Liberation Theology. I wrote two theses on it because I was so taken with it for all kinds of reasons. Basically it is a Theology beginning from "below" ie experience, rather than from above. Lived experience was what fuelled it. And I was alarmed when it seemed to be taking the turn it did, and was ousted. I do not know if any of you have heard of the educationalist from Brazil, Paulo Freire. But he contributed so much in this area.

It was Luberation Theology that ultimately gave rise to Black Theology, Feminist Theology, and various other theologies. Of course, many will jump on my back if I start to endorse any of them. I will say no more ight now.

I am glad that this is happening.

 

[Martinius]

Thankyou for your responses. I was very interested to read this article because my main research are when I was in acadaemia was Liberation Theology. I wrote two theses on it because I was so taken with it for all kinds of reasons. Basically it is a Theology beginning from "below" ie experience, rather than from above. Lived experience was what fuelled it. And I was alarmed when it seemed to be taking the turn it did, and was ousted. I do not know if any of you have heard of the educationalist from Brazil, Paulo Freire. But he contributed so much in this area.

It was Luberation Theology that ultimately gave rise to Black Theology, Feminist Theology, and various other theologies. Of course, many will jump on my back if I start to endorse any of them. I will say no more ight now.

I am glad that this is happening.

Don't be so quick to think that Liberation Theology is out. As long as there is income and wealth inequality it will be pertinent. As long as one socio-economic group controls another, using them and taking from them for their own personal gain, it will not go away. As long as power centers work together to control economies and suppress rights and freedoms, Liberation Theology will not die out.

I have run into Freire in books I have read, but have not read any of his books. Mine more author to add to my list.

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

"some believed – if it meant supporting armed struggle against oppressors."

Only read the first page so far angelica
Concerns me that they might support violent means but I am very naïve I admit about the whole thing.

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

Basically it is a Theology beginning from "below" ie experience, rather than from above.

Sounds interesting. Can you elaborate?

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

many will jump on my back if I start to endorse any of them

not here on TOL, if I can help it

 

[Martinius]

"some believed – if it meant supporting armed struggle against oppressors."

Only read the first page so far angelica
Concerns me that they support violent means but I am very naïve I admit about the whole thing.

No , true liberation theology does not support violence. Some people had taken violent action, or joined revolutionary groups, but LT is really a passive resistance philosophy.

There is a documentary film about the history of it. One part shows a boy, probably 12 or 13 years old. The quasi-government militia came to his village and took his parents away. Their bodies were found in a ditch. This kid had no one left and no place to go. The film shows him joining a revolutionary group in the hills and being taught to kill. His objective was to revenge his parents. The oppressors had changed him from a child to revolutionary killer. Chances are he never made it to age 16.

Catholic nuns and lay catechists taught the rural people in Central America about God and the Church. Up to that point, these people were ignorant. Missionary priests would baptize them but that was it. No religious education. Religious orders started shipping bibles there, and the nuns and catechists taught from those, and as they learned to read the people were given a bible of their own.

BUT, they soon learned that carrying a bible around was dangerous. It could get you arrested, tortured, murdered. You see, Christianity is really quite subversive, a threat to those in power and to the status quo. Many of those nuns and lay Catholics gave their lives for God and for those people. They had no weapons, other than the Bible and their deep faith.

In an infamous incident, the military raided a priest house at a school for seminarians. They were all slaughtered. Then the military tried to make it look like the priests and seminarians attacked them. That lie was quickly found out; hard to imagine why men without weapons would attack soldiers, especially when they were shot in the backs trying to escape.

Now, we know that some turned to violence and joined revolutionary groups. But for them, they may have reached the breaking point, like that boy. The great majority tried to avoid violence and to have their families live peacefully. But instead they had to live in constant fear.

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

but LT is really a passive resistance philosophy.

sounds good . Similar to Gandhi then.

 

[tadoflamb]

Thanks for sharing that anjelica. Up until now the only thing I knew about Liberation Theology is that my socialist father said he liked it when I told him I was converting to Catholicism.

To me it looks similar to the St. Vincent de Paul teaching on the two footsteps of charity. The first footstep is addressing the tangible needs of the poor and the second footstep addresses the political, economic and social conditions that put the poor there in the first place.

The pastor filling in for most the sacramental duties at my parish leads pilgrimages to Central America and to the sites of the martyrs so this is of a special interest to me.

 

[anjelica]

Just to say, before I fall asleep again LOL it was never meant to induce violence. Just t opposite. It was the way that some took it though.

And yes, I guess it is still around in other forms, but very changed.

In the first wave, it was new and exciting, but actua lly all it was doing was putting forward the REAL Gospel.

Will say more later but tired right now

 

[anjelica]

You need to really study it, and read all the history of it, and what happened, in order to understand it fully. And that is a big task. I was not Catholic when I wasninvolved in it, but it impressed me then. Not why I became. Catholic though. It was thef actual theology that drew me. A nd so I got very involved and wrote a lot on it. At this moment I will not say more, but later maybe. I did move on from it, but am pleased to read this article

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

thanks for the article anyway angelica. I have so much to learn, so much, maybe too much. I cant take it all in.

 

[anjelica]

I wouldn't worry about it too much Paul. I posted it because some in The other place jump on Luberation Theology, when all it is is a very very compassionate response to the poor and the underdog. I responded well to it for that reason. Theology does not matter that much really. It was just a talking point

 

[Thursday]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...liberation-theology-founder-gustavo-gutierrez

More disappointment from this pope. He is off message so often.

 

[Martinius]

More disappointment from this pope. He is off message so often.

I must respectfully disagree. I see Pope Francis as being "on message" and quite consistently. His major documents, his homilies, his talks all seem to be centered on a gospel-oriented pastoral Church, concerned not just for some but for all of humanity and for the planet we all share and must rely on for our survival.

Regarding Gutierrez and Liberation Theology, one must keep in mind where Francis came from. He is a South American, so he is acutely aware of the problems that seem to be endemic in that region. Also, as a bishop and Cardinal, he must have participated in one or more of the CELAM conferences, where the Catholic leadership of Latin America meet in a sort of synod about once every decade. He has undoubtedly contributed to these conferences, and dialogued with his peers from other countries. No way he could not be aware and in sympathy with the people he serves.

Liberation Theology is considered by some to be somewhat "dormant", but in reality there is still an active theology and many programs that continue to this day that are oriented around that theology. Over recent decades I think the idea of its toxic connection with Marxism has declined, and perhaps now it can truly be seen as a worthy Catholic and gospel based theology that addresses the issues that face many Latin American countries and their people, plus similar issues in other parts of the world.

The Pope does not disappoint at all in meeting with Gutierrez. Rather, I would have been disappointed if he would have ignored him or refused to see him, for Gustavo is a giant among today's theologians, true to his faith and unwavering in his concern for God's children.

 

[Thursday]

I must respectfully disagree. I see Pope Francis as being "on message" and quite consistently. His major documents, his homilies, his talks all seem to be centered on a gospel-oriented pastoral Church, concerned not just for some but for all of humanity and for the planet we all share and must rely on for our survival.

Regarding Gutierrez and Liberation Theology, one must keep in mind where Francis came from. He is a South American, so he is acutely aware of the problems that seem to be endemic in that region. Also, as a bishop and Cardinal, he must have participated in one or more of the CELAM conferences, where the Catholic leadership of Latin America meet in a sort of synod about once every decade. He has undoubtedly contributed to these conferences, and dialogued with his peers from other countries. No way he could not be aware and in sympathy with the people he serves.

Liberation Theology is considered by some to be somewhat "dormant", but in reality there is still an active theology and many programs that continue to this day that are oriented around that theology. Over recent decades I think the idea of its toxic connection with Marxism has declined, and perhaps now it can truly be seen as a worthy Catholic and gospel based theology that addresses the issues that face many Latin American countries and their people.

The Pope does not disappointment at all in meeting with Gutierrez. Rather, I would have been disappointed if he would have ignored him or refused to see him, for Gustavo is a giant among today's theologians, true to his faith and unwavering in his concern for God's children.

Leftism increases human suffering and poverty.

Advocating leftist solutions does not further the gospel.

 

[Martinius]

Leftism increases human suffering and poverty.

Advocating leftist solutions does not further the gospel.

Well, from what the bishops, Cardinals, theologians and others say about the situations in Latin America over the past 50 years or so, it has been "rightism" which has created and aggravated the problems there. The studies and literature about this, some even by conservative think thanks, point that out conclusively. If you are correct, then a whole bunch of Catholics in the hierarchy, sociologists, theologians, nuns, priests and lay people, probably totaling well into the millions, are wrong. Plus, some Popes like Paul VI, JPII, Benedict XVI, and Francis. I think I will stick with all of them, thank you.

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

it is is a very very compassionate response to the poor and the underdog

cheers for the underdog! I like all kinds of dogs!