Obedience to God

[brotherbeedo15]

Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ,

I always use Romans 3:28 to assert my belief that no Christian can or ever will be justified before God by the works of the law (good works, etc.). Although I truly believe I am saved by the blood of Christ and not by works (lest any man should boast: Ephesians 2:9), I struggle comprehending verses such as 1 John 5:3-4, which state that the true children of God obey his commandments. The only problem with this is that I struggle with sin everyday and I most definitely am not a doer of great works. I also don't understand the meaning of faith without works is dead (James 2:14-17). What does it mean to obey God? Is it possible to keep God's commandments? Is it good enough to just believe in Christ and just believing will save me? Or am I saved by faith and obedience?

Peace be with you,

BB

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

As your conscience shows, reading all Scripture,
no.

Is it good enough to just believe in Christ and just believing will save me?

 

[brotherbeedo15]

As your conscience shows, reading all Scripture,
no.

Works seems improbable according to Ephesians 2:8-9. So, what must accompany faith in order for one to be saved?

 

[RDKirk]

Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ,

I always use Romans 3:28 to assert my belief that no Christian can or ever will be justified before God by the works of the law (good works, etc.). Although I truly believe I am saved by the blood of Christ and not by works (lest any man should boast: Ephesians 2:9), I struggle comprehending verses such as 1 John 5:3-4, which state that the true children of God obey his commandments. The only problem with this is that I struggle with sin everyday and I most definitely am not a doer of great works. I also don't understand the meaning of faith without works is dead (James 2:14-17). What does it mean to obey God? Is it possible to keep God's commandments? Is it good enough to just believe in Christ and just believing will save me? Or am I saved by faith and obedience?

Peace be with you,

BB

Paul is describing the action of faith in the process of becoming saved. Paul is making clear that a person's actions do not obligate God to pay a wage of salvation. No action we can take, no procedure can follow, no rule we can obey obligates God to pay us with eternal life. God never made that deal with mankind; salvation is based on faith, which includes (in part) a recognition by man of his obligation to God. A man with faith accepts obligation to God, not vice versa.

James is describing the continuing action of faith in a person who is saved. There were Gnostics then (and neo-Gnostics today) who claim their faith is a purely spiritual thing that has and needs no material manifestation. James is saying that the faith he's talking--the measure of faith Christ gives to us--will have a material manifestation. If a man's faith is not compelling him to obey Christ, to be more Christlike (even in the smallest of ways), then what he's calling "faith" is false.

 

[John Hyperspace]

Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ,

I always use Romans 3:28 to assert my belief that no Christian can or ever will be justified before God by the works of the law (good works, etc.). Although I truly believe I am saved by the blood of Christ and not by works (lest any man should boast: Ephesians 2:9), I struggle comprehending verses such as 1 John 5:3-4, which state that the true children of God obey his commandments.

Be sure to remember what John said are the commandments: 1 John 3:23 Sounds easy, and for most it probably is. But there are others out there that find they'd rather sacrifice animals, pay money, say prayers to God three times per day, etc. instead of showing love for others.

The only problem with this is that I struggle with sin everyday and I most definitely am not a doer of great works.

Everyone struggles, everyone is a habitual sinner. That's the nature of the weak flesh. The good news is, it doesn't matter since none of it is imputed to us: 2 Corinthians 5:19

I also don't understand the meaning of faith without works is dead (James 2:14-17). What does it mean to obey God? Is it possible to keep God's commandments? Is it good enough to just believe in Christ and just believing will save me? Or am I saved by faith and obedience?

James is talking about the same thing as John (go figure, James and John: the "sons of thunder" as Jesus called them):

James 2:14-16, 1 John 3:17-18

What James and John are talking about is the difference between feigned faith and love, and faith and love unfeigned: 2 Corinthians 6:6, 1 Timothy 1:5, 2 Timothy 1:5, 1 Peter 1:22 So what they are saying is, if you really have faith and love, you'll show it to others in need. You'll be a "cheerful giver" 2 Corinthians 9:7

So, just, have unfeigned faith; love your neighbor; and await your redemption.

 

[SkyWriting]

I also don't understand the meaning of faith without works is dead (James 2:14-17).

How about this: "A person who has faith but does not
allow their faith to enter into their daily lives is not
internalizing their beliefs in a constructive manor."
or
Faith without works is dead.

 

[brotherbeedo15]

Be sure to remember what John said are the commandments: 1 John 3:23 Sounds easy, and for most it probably is. But there are others out there that find they'd rather sacrifice animals, pay money, say prayers to God three times per day, etc. instead of showing love for others.



Everyone struggles, everyone is a habitual sinner. That's the nature of the weak flesh. The good news is, it doesn't matter since none of it is imputed to us: 2 Corinthians 5:19



James is talking about the same thing as John (go figure, James and John: the "sons of thunder" as Jesus called them):

James 2:14-16, 1 John 3:17-18

What James and John are talking about is the difference between feigned faith and love, and faith and love unfeigned: 2 Corinthians 6:6, 1 Timothy 1:5, 2 Timothy 1:5, 1 Peter 1:22 So what they are saying is, if you really have faith and love, you'll show it to others in need. You'll be a "cheerful giver" 2 Corinthians 9:7

So, just, have unfeigned faith; love your neighbor; and await your redemption.

Thank you very much for your response. I have one last question: What happens to unobedient believers? In Matthew 13:30, there is an emphasis on burning the weeds. Could an unobedient believer in Christ be a part of the weeds? To me it seems like an obvious no, but I still seek to know how to be obedient to God. Is it even possible to obey God?

 

[brotherbeedo15]

How about this: "A person who has faith but does not
allow their faith to enter into their daily lives is not
internalizing their beliefs in a constructive manor."
or
Faith without works is dead.

So, this type of faith does NOT save?

 

[brotherbeedo15]

Be sure to remember what John said are the commandments: 1 John 3:23 Sounds easy, and for most it probably is. But there are others out there that find they'd rather sacrifice animals, pay money, say prayers to God three times per day, etc. instead of showing love for others.



Everyone struggles, everyone is a habitual sinner. That's the nature of the weak flesh. The good news is, it doesn't matter since none of it is imputed to us: 2 Corinthians 5:19



James is talking about the same thing as John (go figure, James and John: the "sons of thunder" as Jesus called them):

James 2:14-16, 1 John 3:17-18

What James and John are talking about is the difference between feigned faith and love, and faith and love unfeigned: 2 Corinthians 6:6, 1 Timothy 1:5, 2 Timothy 1:5, 1 Peter 1:22 So what they are saying is, if you really have faith and love, you'll show it to others in need. You'll be a "cheerful giver" 2 Corinthians 9:7

So, just, have unfeigned faith; love your neighbor; and await your redemption.

Thank you very much for your response. I have one last question: What happens to unobedient believers? In Matthew 13:30, there is an emphasis on burning the weeds. Could an unobedient believer in Christ be a part of the weeds? To me it seems like an obvious no, but I still seek to know how to be obedient to God. Is it even possible to obey God?

 

[John Hyperspace]

Thank you very much for your response. I have one last question: What happens to unobedient believers? In Matthew 13:30, there is an emphasis on burning the weeds. Could an unobedient believer in Christ be a part of the weeds? To me it seems like an obvious no, but I still seek to know how to be obedient to God. Is it even possible to obey God?

The tares are the children of the wicked one: Matthew 13:38: of whom John speaks: 1 John 3:11-12, 1 John 2:9, 1 John 4:20: who are sown in the kingdom such as this one: 3 John 1:9-11 and again this goes back to feigned vs. unfeigned love. A person of feigned love is he who confesses God with the lips, but whose heart is far from: Matthew 15:8, 2 Peter 2:3: who says he loves God, but don't show love to the brethren: 1 John 3:14, 1 Peter 1:22 and this is likened by the parable of the Good Samaritan: the first two men were "tares" in the kingdom, while the Samaritan "wheat"

It's possible to obey God depending on what God commands and what your nature is: if God commands "love your neighbor" and you are a hateful person by nature (which all men are by nature), it will be impossible to obey God. But if the Spirit is within you, and you walk according to the nature of love for others; then you have perfectly obeyed God through grace: Romans 13:8, Romans 13:10, Galatians 5:14, which is called the Royal Law: James 2:8

 

[brotherbeedo15]

The tares are the children of the wicked one: Matthew 13:38: of whom John speaks: 1 John 3:11-12, 1 John 2:9, 1 John 4:20: who are sown in the kingdom such as this one: 3 John 1:9-11 and again this goes back to feigned vs. unfeigned love. A person of feigned love is he who confesses God with the lips, but whose heart is far from: Matthew 15:8, 2 Peter 2:3: who says he loves God, but don't show love to the brethren: 1 John 3:14, 1 Peter 1:22 and this is likened by the parable of the Good Samaritan: the first two men were "tares" in the kingdom, while the Samaritan "wheat"

It's possible to obey God depending on what God commands and what your nature is: if God commands "love your neighbor" and you are a hateful person by nature (which all men are by nature), it will be impossible to obey God. But if the Spirit is within you, and you walk according to the nature of love for others; then you have perfectly obeyed God through grace: Romans 13:8, Romans 13:10, Galatians 5:14, which is called the Royal Law: James 2:8

Now are the believers with unfeigned love cast into the fire? What if they can never come to love their brother, but seek repentance and grace until their death bed?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

What are "believers with unfeigned love" ?
Why would they be cast into the fire ?


Why would they never come to love their brother ?

Now are the believers with unfeigned love cast into the fire? What if they can never come to love their brother, but seek repentance and grace until their death bed?

They can seek repentance and grace all their life and never be saved, btw.
======================================
======================================
(1)

Is it good enough to just believe in Christ and just believing will save me?

(2)

..... So, what must accompany faith in order for one to be saved?

---- see the difference ^^ between (1) and (2) ?

----------------------------
----------------------------
----------------------------
Millions did(WERE OBEDIENT TO YHWH). (all through SCRIPTURE/ TORAH/ OT and NT)
Millions have since then:
see Foxes Book of Martyrs for excellent examples.
(of obedient ones, and the hypocrites who put them to death)
http://www.biblestudytools.com/history/foxs-book-of-martyrs/

To me it seems like an obvious no, but I still seek to know how to be obedient to God. Is it even possible to obey God?

 

[John Hyperspace]

Now are the believers with unfeigned love cast into the fire?

Everyone goes into the fire; some loosed and in joy, some are bound and thrust in: 1 Peter 1:7, 1 Peter 4:12, 1 Corinthians 3:13, Luke 12:49, Luke 3:16, Malachi 3:2, Obadiah 1:18, Jeremiah 5:14: it is the fire that purifies, burns up the elements and chaff of impurity. Gold loves fire, straw is afraid of it: but both get salted with it: Mark 9:49, 1 Kings 8:51

Of God it's written: Hebrews 12:29, 1 John 4:8 and of His ministers, likewise, Hebrews 1:7, Hebrews 6:10

What if they can never come to love their brother, but seek repentance and grace until their death bed?

Love never fails: 1 Corinthians 13:8 Everyone will come to know love, in this age, or, in the age following: Hebrews 2:5: but in the end, all is perfected in the unquenchable fire of love: Song of Solomon 8:7, Hebrews 12:29, 1 John 4:18 it's just a matter of gain, or, loss: Isaiah 66:16, 1 Corinthians 3:15

 

[brotherbeedo15]

What are "believers with unfeigned love" ?
Why would they be cast into the fire ?


Why would they never come to love their brother ?


They can seek repentance and grace all their life and never be saved, btw.
======================================
======================================
(1)

(2)
---- see the difference ^^ between (1) and (2) ?

----------------------------
----------------------------
----------------------------
Millions did(WERE OBEDIENT TO YHWH). (all through SCRIPTURE/ TORAH/ OT and NT)
Millions have since then:
see Foxes Book of Martyrs for excellent examples.
(of obedient ones, and the hypocrites who put them to death)
Matthew 5:20

 

[Emmy]

Dear brotherboedo15. In Matthew 22: 35-40: Jesus tells us:
" The first and great commandment is: Love God with all thy heart, with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. The second is like it: love thy neighbour as thyself." In verse 40 we are told: " On these two Commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets." God wants our love, freely given and no conditions made. God is Love, and God wants loving sons and daughters. In Matthews 7: 7-10: we are told: " Ask and you shall receive." We keeping ask God for Love and Joy, then thank God and share all love and joy with our neighbour. (neighbour is all we know and all we meet, friends and not friends) We keep asking and receiving.
The Bible tells us: " Repent and be Born Again," we keep asking God for Love and Joy, then thank God and share all love and joy with all around us. We might tumble and forget at times, but then we ask God to forgive us and carry on loving and caring, be kind and give the helping hand. God will see our loving efforts, and God will Bless us greatly.
Let us try and follow God`s Commandments to always love and be kind, and we find life abundant. I say this with love, brotherbedo15. Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Is it even possible to obey God?

All of the faithful Apostles and disciples in the NT did, all their lives after being born again.

 

[YouAreAwesome]

I always use Romans 3:28 to assert my belief that no Christian can or ever will be justified before God by the works of the law (good works, etc.).

This is true!

I struggle comprehending verses such as 1 John 5:3-4, which state that the true children of God obey his commandments.

What are His commandments according to John?
1 John 5:5-6
5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him.
6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.
We abide in Christ by the Holy Spirit and lean not on our own understanding, but on Him. He gives us our daily bread, our manna, His Word, His commandments. Our conscience bears witness that we are in Him.
24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.
The commandments are not an external rule set, but an internal whispering to the heart. A heightened conscience. The law written on our hearts.

The only problem with this is that I struggle with sin everyday

If this were not a public forum I would ask you, "What sin are you struggling with?", but it may not be appropriate to share here. Nevertheless, I would highly encourage you to do whatever it takes to remove any sin from your life. Sin is often described as some kind of inescapable disease. And it would have been if Jesus had not cured it. And not only did He cure it, but you are cured as well. So why do you sin? Because you haven't realized that you don't have to. You are child of God, born again, a new creation. You are not a sinner. You are a saint, who at the moment, sins. But really, the true you, is a saint. When you received Jesus you died, that is, your sinful inclination died. Jesus rose up in you and you are now a new creation. Your normal inclination is now to do good. Not evil. But you may be caught in a habitual cycle. Confront it. Remove it. Do whatever it takes. Sin robs a person of joy and confidence in God. You can be set free and you don't have to live in sin forevermore on this earth. I will say again, confront it: in what environment do you sin? Do not enter that environment. Change it. Do something active to actually stop it from happening until the habit is gone. Don't give up. Especially make sure you don't get into guilt. Guilt doesn't help. There is no condemnation for those in Jesus Christ (Romans 8:1). Sin hurts you and the people around you. Stay away from it. Yes, God loves you even in your sin, but He loves you too much to leave you in that cycle. He will give you the strength to get out.

I also don't understand the meaning of faith without works is dead (James 2:14-17).

Faith in God works. There are spiritual gifts or spiritual works such as prophesying. And there are good works such as the fruits of the Spirit. Focus on God and His love, He will bring about these things in your life. We don't need to struggle to make good works flow in our life. We worship God and love people. Good works happen naturally when we learn to just be ourselves in God. But what is the meaning of "faith", without any of these works? Faith in what? It would be just lip service. Faith believes in God, invites Him in to our lives, and submits everything to Him - then we are truly free and able to be ourselves.

Is it possible to keep God's commandments?

Yes. His commandments are not a burden because they are not an external rule set. They are synonymous with walking in the Spirit. And walking in the Spirit is not an airy fairy ideal. It is just being yourself and listening to Him. God gives us a big green light, but every now and then a red light appears, so we don't walk in that direction. He doesn't usually tell us individual things to do like "have a shower now", but He might one day say "I love you, you are awesome, let's spend some time together".

Is it good enough to just believe in Christ and just believing will save me? Or am I saved by faith and obedience?

Believing will save you. Not believing that He existed, but believing and receiving His salvation. Receiving a Spirit to spirit connection that comes when you confess Jesus as Lord of your life. You are not saved by faith and obedience. You are saved by faith. Obedience is something we all grow in, but like I said earlier, this is not obedience to laws, but obedience to His Love. Learning to walk in Him intimately like Enoch. Just enjoy His company and obedience follows. Although, I really don't like the word "obedience", it conjures up images of a controlling God forcing us to do something. Better is relationship. Faith and relationship are a good mix.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

What does it mean to obey God? Is it possible to keep God's commandments?

To start, seeking YHWH apart from religion.
Renouncing all man-made religions on earth.
Man-made religions on earth do not permit obeying YHWH,
and YHWH won't share HIS GLORY -
HE is not seeking those with a mixed heart,
but only those with a pure heart.(not mixed with any other religion, or any love for the world, or the things of the world, and no idolatry as written "little children, keep yourselves from idols" )

 

[Shempster]

Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ,

I always use Romans 3:28 to assert my belief that no Christian can or ever will be justified before God by the works of the law (good works, etc.). Although I truly believe I am saved by the blood of Christ and not by works (lest any man should boast: Ephesians 2:9), I struggle comprehending verses such as 1 John 5:3-4, which state that the true children of God obey his commandments. The only problem with this is that I struggle with sin everyday and I most definitely am not a doer of great works. I also don't understand the meaning of faith without works is dead (James 2:14-17). What does it mean to obey God? Is it possible to keep God's commandments? Is it good enough to just believe in Christ and just believing will save me? Or am I saved by faith and obedience?

Peace be with you,

BB

Part of the issue is asking just which commandments is He talking about.

Messianic believers say we must observe the torah.
Christian denominations each have their own list of sin based on their particular system of interpretation.
Paul told the Colossians that having outward religious rules may appear to be righteous but the rules do nothing to stop the old man living inside.
Yeshua said that it is not what goes into a man that makes him unclean but what comes out. And if evil comes out then there's the evidence that the old man is alive and well.
Yeshua said that ALL of the laws hang on the 2 new commandments 1. Love God 2. Love others as yourself.

The way I see it is that DIVINE LOVE conquers all evil. If we are open and accepting of others, never slander them or have sexual thoughts about them, if we treat everyone - especially our enemies- with God's love then we tap into the character of Christ. If we can be consistent, then over time love wins out every time and we will eventually be led by the spirit all of the time.

I do not live by any set of rules at all. There are certainly things I avoid. Like you...its likely you avoid eating dirt because you do not like the taste. You don't need some rule saying DO NOT EAT THE DIRT. You just don't eat it.
The same goes with sin. When you live with oneness with Christs character then He leads you to either do something or not to. And when we fail, He gently leads us to correct our error. I have never found God to be harsh.
But...sin can open the door to demons having their way with you. The outcome of that is always bad, but it's not God who punishes. Satan punished us when we open the door and let him in for a visit.

Walking in oneness with Christ is what I call freedom!
I can freely say this because for 25 years I lived under the strict religious system. They convinced me that I was a horrible person. No better than a diseased rat to God and I am lucky to be saved because I believe in some person and event that I have never seen.

No, living a righteous life walking like Yeshua did is not a task and is not difficult.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

YHWH'S commands are not burdensome, no, they are LIFE GIVING ! (or LIFE ENHANCING, if you prefer, because in the keeping of them is GREAT REWARD IN THIS LIFE).
And IN Y'SHUA there is NOW NO CONDEMNATION. (AFTER HIS conviction and GODLY SORROW leads a person to true repentance).
Like little children we must be,
to ever see YHWH'S KINGDOM and ETERNITY/ LIFE with HIM.