"Obamacare"

[jayem]

Because you're plan would mandate what people and businesses can and cannot do rather than let them do what they prefer

None of us can do anything we might like. Society constrains all of us to some degree, pursuant to the common good. If you consider this tyranny, then your definition is remarkably expansive.

I'm not trying to avoid a discussion, but this should be a new thread.

 

[MachZer0]

None of us can do anything we might like. Society constrains all of us to some degree, pursuant to the common good. If you consider this tyranny, then your definition is remarkably expansive.

I'm not trying to avoid a discussion, but this should be a new thread.

Your solutions compound tyranny in America. The real solution is liberty, not tyranny.

 

[kermit]

The impression that I got was that there weren't enough primary care doctors and that those primary care doctors generally don't tend to take medicaid.

But less strain in emergency medicine will allow more doctors to enter private practice. Currently ERs are so overloaded that we are seeing the emergence of hospital sponsored and independent urgent care facilities to treat minor injuries. The shortage in private practice doctors is due to an explosion of the emergency care. The demand in emergency care doctors means that doctors can make private practice money without private practice hastle.

As more and more people get health overage, the market demand will shift to a more preventative model and medical providers will adapt.

 

[kermit]

Your solutions compound tyranny in America. The real solution is liberty, not tyranny.

There are people who have to choose between crushing debt and death. Has their liberty been increased? Does giving them a 3rd option increase their liberty or reduce it?

Liberty is bottom up, not top down. The measure of liberty is not how we treat those who benefit the most from society, but rather how we treat those who benefit the least.

Life is fundamental to liberty. If you and I have to sacrifice slightly so that others may live then that solution increases liberty.

 

[grasping the after wind]

There are people who have to choose between crushing debt and death. Has their liberty been increased? Does giving them a 3rd option increase their liberty or reduce it?

Liberty is bottom up, not top down. The measure of liberty is not how we treat those who benefit the most from society, but rather how we treat those who benefit the least.

Life is fundamental to liberty. If you and I have to sacrifice slightly so that others may live then that solution increases liberty.

Liberty has nothing to do with how we treat people.
I think you mistake compassion for liberty.
The measure of liberty is how free we are from government interference in our lives.

 

[John Lee Pettimore III]

But less strain in emergency medicine will allow more doctors to enter private practice. Currently ERs are so overloaded that we are seeing the emergence of hospital sponsored and independent urgent care facilities to treat minor injuries. The shortage in private practice doctors is due to an explosion of the emergency care. The demand in emergency care doctors means that doctors can make private practice money without private practice hastle.

As more and more people get health overage, the market demand will shift to a more preventative model and medical providers will adapt.

Are doctors really forced to go into emergency medicine if they don't want to?

I think GPs are the least well paid doctors.

 

[kermit]

Liberty has nothing to do with how we treat people.
I think you mistake compassion for liberty.
The measure of liberty is how free we are from government interference in our lives.

Oppression comes in many forms. Sometimes the government is the oppressor, sometimes it is the liberator. Often the same action can be either depending upon your vantage point.

A tax that helps someone regain their health liberates that person, but oppresses those who are taxed.

 

[kermit]

Are doctors really forced to go into emergency medicine if they don't want to?

No one is forced, but doctors, like most people, will go where the money is.

I think GPs are the least well paid doctors.

That didn't used to be the case.

 

[jayem]

Your solutions compound tyranny in America. The real solution is liberty, not tyranny.

Doesn't liberty end when it causes harm?

But give me some specifics of what you envision as it relates to health insurance.

 

[MachZer0]

There are people who have to choose between crushing debt and death. Has their liberty been increased? Does giving them a 3rd option increase their liberty or reduce it?

Liberty is bottom up, not top down. The measure of liberty is not how we treat those who benefit the most from society, but rather how we treat those who benefit the least.

Life is fundamental to liberty. If you and I have to sacrifice slightly so that others may live then that solution increases liberty.

You are confusing liberty with other issues. If you get sick and are faced with crushing debt and the government forces somebody else to bail you out, whose liberty is decreased?

 

[grasping the after wind]

Oppression comes in many forms. Sometimes the government is the oppressor, sometimes it is the liberator. Often the same action can be either depending upon your vantage point.

A tax that helps someone regain their health liberates that person, but oppresses those who are taxed.

The best a government can do is refrain from oppressing they are only capable of liberating if they are willing to cease to exist (USSR as an example of this).
Taxes do not help anyone regain their health.
Health can invigorate but cannot liberate in a political sense. The healthy can be oppressed as easily as the sick.
Taxes do not oppress those that are taxed unless they are meant to punish one group in order to benefit another but it is not the taxes then that oppress but the agency(government) that levies those taxes.

 

[MachZer0]

Oppression comes in many forms. Sometimes the government is the oppressor, sometimes it is the liberator. Often the same action can be either depending upon your vantage point.

A tax that helps someone regain their health liberates that person, but oppresses those who are taxed.

Helping someone regain their health has nothing to do with liberating them, but you are correct that forcing someone to do so is a form of oppression.

 

[MachZer0]

Doesn't liberty end when it causes harm?

My liberty causes harm to nobody

But give me some specifics of what you envision as it relates to health insurance.

The very first thing is to get the federal government completely out of healthcare other than providing insurance to employees as do other employers.

 

[Lion Hearted Man]

Are doctors really forced to go into emergency medicine if they don't want to?

I think GPs are the least well paid doctors.

Emergency medicine is a relatively new specialty that is extremely sought after because you can control your hours and you get paid very well.

Primary care sucks because you can't control your hours and don't get paid very well.

Students with massive loans don't want to go into primary care.

 

[jayem]

My liberty causes harm to nobody

Good to know. Too bad that's not true of everybody.

The very first thing is to get the federal government completely out of healthcare other than providing insurance to employees as do other employers.

That battle was lost 47 years ago (to the day, actually.) Good luck getting rid of Medicare.

But the larger question: Why should employers be providing health insurance to employees?

 

[grasping the after wind]

Emergency medicine is a relatively new specialty that is extremely sought after because you can control your hours and you get paid very well.

Primary care sucks because you can't control your hours and don't get paid very well.

Students with massive loans don't want to go into primary care.

I take issue with the statement I bolded. My primary care physicians not only control their hours but are paid quite well. They make less than specialists but they do get paid well. I wasn't aware that those in ERs controlled their hours and thought that they were scheduled by the hospital as the hospital deemed necessary.How do the hospitals remain staffed at all hours if the ER doctors control their hours? I would think you would have a glut of physicians at some times and no one at others.

 

[kermit]

Helping someone regain their health has nothing to do with liberating them, but you are correct that forcing someone to do so is a form of oppression.

Removing someone from bondage of any type liberates them. That said, the trick is balancing the act of liberating some from the bondage of poverty and sickness without oppressing everyone else too much.

 

[Lion Hearted Man]

I take issue with the statement I bolded. My primary care physicians not only control their hours but are paid quite well. They make less than specialists but they do get paid well. I wasn't aware that those in ERs controlled their hours and thought that they were scheduled by the hospital as the hospital deemed necessary.How do the hospitals remain staffed at all hours if the ER doctors control their hours? I would think you would have a glut of physicians at some times and no one at others.

"Controllable hours" doesn't mean that EM docs come in whenever they want, but rather that they do shift work. When an EM doc is off, he/she is actually off: zero call.

Compare this to primary care docs, who are always on call for their patients. Also, most primary care docs these days have to have an extremely efficient practice in order to make good money, as opposed to EM docs who clock in and clock out and rake in big bucks. EM docs make a near $100,000 more per year as primary care docs.

 

[grasping the after wind]

"Controllable hours" doesn't mean that EM docs come in whenever they want, but rather that they do shift work. When an EM doc is off, he/she is actually off: zero call.

Compare this to primary care docs, who are always on call for their patients. Also, most primary care docs these days have to have an extremely efficient practice in order to make good money, as opposed to EM docs who clock in and clock out and rake in big bucks. EM docs make a near $100,000 more per year as primary care docs.

My primary care physician doesn't do always on call. Neither do his partners. They have PAs for that and then only on weekdays. . If there is a weekend or night time emergency? Guess what,the answering service will tell you to go to the ER or one of the Immediate Care facilities in the area and call on monday to let the doctor know what happened.

 

[Lion Hearted Man]

My primary care physician doesn't do always on call. Neither do his partners. They have PAs for that and then only on weekdays. . If there is a weekend or night time emergency? Guess what,the answering service will tell you to go to the ER or one of the Immediate Care facilities in the area and call on monday to let the doctor know what happened.

Even if your personal primary care doc unplugs his phone when his patients have heart attacks at 3am, primary care is considered to be a specialty where hours are not controllable (unlike emergency medicine, dermatology, pathology, radiology, etc)

Feel free to read up:
Controllable lifestyle: a new factor in career choi... [Acad Med. 1989] - PubMed - NCBI

This study showed how the best and the brightest students tend to avoid primary care fields (like medicine, pediatrics, OB/Gyn, family medicine, etc), and one explanation is that lifestyle is not controllable.